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People who use the First Amendment to advocate hateful practices
Posted 8/10/10 , edited 8/10/10

angrierchick wrote:

Actually, First Amendment doesn't advocate everything. There are limits.

Let me introduce you to a case called Brandenburg v. Ohio. It created something called the Brandenburg standard - which basically means that if speech is going to produce imminent lawless action, and if it is likely to produce such an action, then the feds can go after you and you can be arrested.

Also, another little situation called Morse v. Frederick basically states that students do not have freedom of speech if it comes to condoning illegal activities.

Makix basically said everything that I'm thinking. The first amendment, for the most part, is a great thing, but it is still frequently abused. One of the best ways to use Freedom of Speech is to speak out against unjust practices and say what you're thinking, but you should also know when to shut the hell up.
Cases to point, when the US defense department threaten the whistle-blower WikiLeaks to STFU about their own wrong doings, anti-abortion activists told lies in order to manipulate women to go through with unplanned pregnancy, or how the government of China is still censoring the 1989 massacre. I don't think the STFU rule need to apply here.
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Posted 8/11/10
Really when you give those people attention who use their first amendment to be offensive you just ignore them. The more you give them attention they know it effects you and they keep doing it. But if they dont have a crowd they will stop plain and simple. People just have to stop being so sensitive.
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Posted 8/12/10

drizza wrote:

Really when you give those people attention who use their first amendment to be offensive you just ignore them. The more you give them attention they know it effects you and they keep doing it. But if they dont have a crowd they will stop plain and simple. People just have to stop being so sensitive.


And what happens wen you Ignore a leaky pipe?
Can you say it ends up costing you more in the end!

What happen wen you ignore loud irrational people?
Their Numbers Grow. Soon you have a army of crazy loud irrational people ready to drop you on your head!

So Ignoring anything does not fix shit, it only allows it to grow or evolve into something even more costly and harmful.
That is my stance, and why I am so aggressive toward people I Deem Ignorant based on my own logical and scientific standards.

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Posted 8/12/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


drizza wrote:

Really when you give those people attention who use their first amendment to be offensive you just ignore them. The more you give them attention they know it effects you and they keep doing it. But if they dont have a crowd they will stop plain and simple. People just have to stop being so sensitive.


And what happens wen you Ignore a leaky pipe?
Can you say it ends up costing you more in the end!

What happen wen you ignore loud irrational people?
Their Numbers Grow. Soon you have a army of crazy loud irrational people ready to drop you on your head!

So Ignoring anything does not fix shit, it only allows it to grow or evolve into something even more costly and harmful.
That is my stance, and why I am so aggressive toward people I Deem Ignorant based on my own logical and scientific standards.



Nah my stance stays if it is immature activities just to spark hate then I just ignore them. Now if it effects my life in anyway then yes we respond.
Posted 8/13/10



All I can say is that the internet is full of tough guys that hide behind a computer screen and act big. Most of these people would never act this way in real life.
Posted 8/13/10

drizza wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


drizza wrote:

Really when you give those people attention who use their first amendment to be offensive you just ignore them. The more you give them attention they know it effects you and they keep doing it. But if they dont have a crowd they will stop plain and simple. People just have to stop being so sensitive.


And what happens wen you Ignore a leaky pipe?
Can you say it ends up costing you more in the end!

What happen wen you ignore loud irrational people?
Their Numbers Grow. Soon you have a army of crazy loud irrational people ready to drop you on your head!

So Ignoring anything does not fix shit, it only allows it to grow or evolve into something even more costly and harmful.
That is my stance, and why I am so aggressive toward people I Deem Ignorant based on my own logical and scientific standards.



Nah my stance stays if it is immature activities just to spark hate then I just ignore them. Now if it effects my life in anyway then yes we respond.
These words of wisdom might make you think twice:

"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."

-- by Martin Niemöller(citation)
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Posted 8/21/10
Free Speech ends, as mentioned above, when you set about inciting acts co-current to the welfare of others. That is to say, if you wrote an entire pamphlet on why we should kill all black people, you are going to be arrested, but if you join a club, say, League of Southern Gentlemen and Sons of the Confederacy, in so much as you assemble peacefully, distribute pamphlets on why the emancipation proclamation is totally wrong, &c. as long as you don't incite violence, it's okay.

Hateful speech, no matter how disdainful, is still speech protected by our constitution, and is needed to preserve our democracy.
Posted 8/21/10

longfenglim wrote:

Free Speech ends, as mentioned above, when you set about inciting acts co-current to the welfare of others. That is to say, if you wrote an entire pamphlet on why we should kill all black people, you are going to be arrested, but if you join a club, say, League of Southern Gentlemen and Sons of the Confederacy, in so much as you assemble peacefully, distribute pamphlets on why the emancipation proclamation is totally wrong, &c. as long as you don't incite violence, it's okay.

Hateful speech, no matter how disdainful, is still speech protected by our constitution, and is needed to preserve our democracy.
That's illogical, unless you can prove that there's any rationale or reasoning behind hateful intention, thus justifies hate speech being respectful to the rights and freedom of others within a democratic state.
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Posted 8/21/10

DomFortress wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

Free Speech ends, as mentioned above, when you set about inciting acts co-current to the welfare of others. That is to say, if you wrote an entire pamphlet on why we should kill all black people, you are going to be arrested, but if you join a club, say, League of Southern Gentlemen and Sons of the Confederacy, in so much as you assemble peacefully, distribute pamphlets on why the emancipation proclamation is totally wrong, &c. as long as you don't incite violence, it's okay.

Hateful speech, no matter how disdainful, is still speech protected by our constitution, and is needed to preserve our democracy.
That's illogical, unless you can prove that there's any rationale or reasoning behind hateful intention, thus justifies hate speech being respectful to the rights and freedom of others within a democratic state.


It provides an alternate position that a citizen can either choose or mock. Opinions are the basis of democracy, whence we stifle opinion, we may no longer call ourselves a democracy.
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Posted 8/21/10

longfenglim wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

Free Speech ends, as mentioned above, when you set about inciting acts co-current to the welfare of others. That is to say, if you wrote an entire pamphlet on why we should kill all black people, you are going to be arrested, but if you join a club, say, League of Southern Gentlemen and Sons of the Confederacy, in so much as you assemble peacefully, distribute pamphlets on why the emancipation proclamation is totally wrong, &c. as long as you don't incite violence, it's okay.

Hateful speech, no matter how disdainful, is still speech protected by our constitution, and is needed to preserve our democracy.
That's illogical, unless you can prove that there's any rationale or reasoning behind hateful intention, thus justifies hate speech being respectful to the rights and freedom of others within a democratic state.


It provides an alternate position that a citizen can either choose or mock. Opinions are the basis of democracy, whence we stifle opinion, we may no longer call ourselves a democracy.


Democracy, we must be aware of its strength and weaknesses. Everyone here are strong advocates for free speech, even the retarded ones.

Problem is every fools opinion are equally important especially the most retarded ones or the most inflammatory ones, the ones which garner the most attention or heated support and rational and logical discussion get thrown out of the window.
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Posted 8/22/10 , edited 8/22/10

longfenglim wrote:

Free Speech ends, as mentioned above, when you set about inciting acts co-current to the welfare of others. That is to say, if you wrote an entire pamphlet on why we should kill all black people, you are going to be arrested, but if you join a club, say, League of Southern Gentlemen and Sons of the Confederacy, in so much as you assemble peacefully, distribute pamphlets on why the emancipation proclamation is totally wrong, &c. as long as you don't incite violence, it's okay.

Hateful speech, no matter how disdainful, is still speech protected by our constitution, and is needed to preserve our democracy.


Actually you won't get arrested for writing and distributing a booklet about why we need to kill all black people. That is protected under free speech. Freedom of Press. You can print anything you want. The fact that I owned an Anarchist Cookbook is proof of that.

And 2, we are not a Democracy. We are a Representative Republic.


Democracy

People ---> Law


Representative Republic

People ---> Representatives (Congressmen and Senators)---> Law
Posted 8/22/10

Allhailodin wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

Free Speech ends, as mentioned above, when you set about inciting acts co-current to the welfare of others. That is to say, if you wrote an entire pamphlet on why we should kill all black people, you are going to be arrested, but if you join a club, say, League of Southern Gentlemen and Sons of the Confederacy, in so much as you assemble peacefully, distribute pamphlets on why the emancipation proclamation is totally wrong, &c. as long as you don't incite violence, it's okay.

Hateful speech, no matter how disdainful, is still speech protected by our constitution, and is needed to preserve our democracy.


Actually you won't get arrested for writing and distributing a booklet about why we need to kill all black people. That is protected under free speech. Freedom of Press. You can print anything you want. The fact that I owned an Anarchist Cookbook is proof of that.

And 2, we are not a Democracy. We are a Representative Republic.


Democracy

People ---> Law


Representative Republic

People ---> Representatives (Congressmen and Senators)---> Law
That doesn't make sense, as in those representatives are still people.

And although hate speech itself isn't a part of hate crime legislation, you could still make a false claim with your hate speech, thus becomes a civil violation when you unjustly attacked a person's very own identity:

What Are Defamation, Libel and Slander?

Generally speaking, defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Slander involves the making of defamatory statements by a transitory (non-fixed) representation, usually an oral (spoken) representation. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.

Damages are typically to the reputation of the plaintiff, but depending upon the laws of the jurisdiction it may be enough to establish mental anguish.(citation)
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Posted 8/22/10 , edited 8/22/10

DomFortress wrote:

That doesn't make sense, as in those representatives are still people.


True Democracy

General Voting Public ---> Law

Republic

General Voting Public ----> Elected officials ---> Law



And although hate speech itself isn't a part of hate crime legislation, you could still make a false claim with your hate speech, thus becomes a civil violation when you unjustly attacked a person's very own identity
What Are Defamation, Libel and Slander?

Generally speaking, defamation is the issuance of a false statement about another person, which causes that person to suffer harm. Slander involves the making of defamatory statements by a transitory (non-fixed) representation, usually an oral (spoken) representation. Libel involves the making of defamatory statements in a printed or fixed medium, such as a magazine or newspaper.

Damages are typically to the reputation of the plaintiff, but depending upon the laws of the jurisdiction it may be enough to establish mental anguish.(citation)


Free speech means the right to defamation, libel and slander. You have the right to say anything about anyone regardless of the truth of the statement. That's how it works.

Freedom of press grants one the right to print anything even if its defamatory.
Posted 8/22/10
There's a thin line between Freedom of Speech and Slander.

At the end of the day "freedom" comes with consequences, and it even states in the First Amendment that there are restrictions, but unfortunately these "restrictions" seem to have loopholes. Now I believe people have taken advantage of this law, and use it as an excuse.
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Posted 8/22/10
Well when I have had discussion with democrats most call what ever person such as Bush. Th first word out of there mouth he a liar or a drunk. Like that going to make whatever I say meaningless. Very rear run into die hard republicans, most are independent. What really find funny, is when some say they hate such and such because they uses hate speech. When I point that out to them. You hate such and such, for hate speech can you understand the word oxymoron?-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The only place somebody in congress can flat out lie is on the floor. I think it is the same for the senate as well. Go figure are law makers can flat out lie on the floor in front whole nation and can not be touched by the law criminally or civil courts.
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