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Abortion woman rights but where are the mans rights.
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Posted 8/15/10

maffoo wrote:

The father chose to have sex with the woman and could have used protection, so I don't have much sympathy for him. Also, from what I understand of abortion it's an invasive procedure, and as with any surgical procedure there are risks, so IMO it would be wrong for the father to be able to force an abortion so he doesn't have to support the child.

Looking at it from an ethical point of view, I also can't see a doctor being prepared to carry out an abortion without the woman's consent.


Now, I am agreeing with your main point which is how abortion shouldn't be for the man's benefit to not have a child and such.

I think that the man can persuade the woman to either have or not have an abortion, though the woman is the one with the unborn baby inside of her.


You cannot have two entities with equal rights occupying one body. One will automatically have veto power over the other - and thus they don't have equal rights. In the case of a pregnant woman, giving a "right to life" to the potential person in the womb automatically cancels out the mother's right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.


http://www.elroy.net/ehr/abortionanswers.html
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52 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 8/16/10
To me it takes two irresponsible people to make a unwanted child. The only victims in this mess is the child and we the tax payer having to support the child. In many case the birth mother has no affection for the child and many of these children will be the future criminals. I even go as far as teenage pregnancy 16 and under ether give the bay up for adoption or terminate the pregnancy.--------------------------------------This kind of behavior is rewarded by the government, food stamps free place to live, If you can not afford to raise a child then the child future is bleak at best. If the couple man or the woman should insist on protection, if not do you really think their going to take care of the kid they already demonstrated they incompetent.--------------------------------- Know of one case the mother born in the 1950 had seven children she left one with here parent that one turn out well PHD in something. her two son's have fathered over 8 children all but four are in De-faxes care. One of girls went to prison for bank robbery, and drug related crime three children tow in DEFAX One in prison until 18. The two youngest daughter buy 23 and 21 had Ten children the 23 year old cannot even see her kids but three are with their father. tow more in def-ax. and see in here late twenties and just had another kid. The twenty -one year had four in a marriage and one out during separation. The marriage fell apart the father went back to some Island in the caribbean all five are in def-axes hand off and one most there lives Both mother as of now have 11 and only three live with their fathers the rest are in government care. some of these kid a messed up from birth booth mother like doing drug even pregnant. So the state pays out for the kid mental problems and their the only children the birth mother want because of the check. what do you think fairly sick to me. Putting Kids in De-fax is a crime in it's self.
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Posted 8/16/10 , edited 8/16/10
I still think whether to abort or not should be the woman's choice. Let's face it, the woman's gonna be doing most of the work lugging that baby around for 9 months, and in most cases if she is not with the guy, the baby's gonna end up with her. However, I agree that men should have more of a voice in this issue. Like, not make her abort, but tell her straight up that he doesn't want this baby and he's not gonna pay child support, so if she wants it it's all on her.

However, I do find those women who seem to make a career of popping out babies repulsive. Single, poor moms living off welfare with 9 kids that are going nowhere, only having more kids to get more money. In that case, I think that it should be a law that for people living off welfare, after 2 kids they either have to stop and if they have anymore, they aren't going to get any more money. Sure, we may have a bunch of kids end up in foster care at first but eventually when women like this see that they can't make cash out of having kids they'll stop.
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52 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 8/16/10
I wished it was just about money what I call sea cows they do not even care about the kids. I been told by my friend that here cousin went out for a few hours, then called and said latter that night she be back. The next two days went buy another phone call left on her mothers answering machine she would not be back for some time. This stuff leave the family in a bind what to do? she showed up three week later she went across country with a truck driver.-------------------------------------Trying to get young woman to understand she can be stuck with the child where the father can walk off. I one night roll in the hay can have life altering consequence to booth parties But a woman gets stuck with the good far easier then men do. That all why I tell the younger 16-up to carry protection it just not babies all sort of STD as well. It easier for men to give then receive Another word a woman can have an STD and not pass it on as easily as males can. I am not a religious person but a civil union would be good if children are wanted.---------------------------What brought this up for me is nephew went through this mess before after he learned that a girl he was going out with was pageant booth in college she wanted the baby he did not until they where finished and he had doubts about there relationship. After she had the baby he got a DNA test done it was not his but this nightmare or farce could have been stopped. Well, he caught hell from all the family for being to nice to being stupid. it was his father push that got him to demand the DNA test done.
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Posted 8/21/10
He should've thought about that before 'doing it'. The Woman is physically going through pain, the man, not so much.
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Posted 8/21/10

tarakelly wrote:A woman can chose to have the baby or not. What about the father what if he dose not want to pay child support for the baby........................... If a woman can have the freedom to pick a man should have the freedom not to have the kid. It takes two to make one and it should take two not to have one. I am tried of this viewpoint that women are victims in the US. equal rights means equal responsibility.


This is a question that has haunted me over the yrs. Rowe vs. Wade has been on the books making abortions legal.

Not every man involved in a sexual encounter, (regardless of any irresponsibility in the initial action which resulted in the creation of a human life,) is devoid of feelings for the child they have helped to create.
Just as there are fathers seeking to retain as well as establish parental rights to their personal offspring being used as pawns or ammunition in divorce or paternity cases, there is next to no opportunity, let alone a provision, for identifying the male parent in prep for a woman's decision for an abortion.
Sure, such fathers may be an extreme minority, but how dare we exclude them!!!!
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52 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 8/21/10
We cannot exclude them but the woman dose have to carry the child if the father dose not want it then he should have a say. I guess a deal could be struck that father has custody only if the mother wants to abort .But that a big can fish to open and women have backed out of child bearing agreements. I am not a lawyer and I think some would have a difficult time with this.
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Posted 8/21/10

tarakelly wrote:We cannot exclude them but the woman dose have to carry the child if the father dose not want it then he should have a say. I guess a deal could be struck that father has custody only if the mother wants to abort .But that a big can fish to open and women have backed out of child bearing agreements. I am not a lawyer and I think some would have a difficult time with this.


I have to agree here w/ you. I've had three planned & wanted pregnancies & I understand the commitment a women is forced to endure 9 months of a potentially unwanted pregnancy has to make!!!!! But then, seeing it from the viewpoint of the father (in this case my husband who so looked forward to & wanted the children we produced), I have a great deal of compassion for the fathers who would otherwise desire to raise the children. Obviously. there are no easy answers.
If only there were!!!!
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52 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 8/21/10

longfenglim wrote:

He should've thought about that before 'doing it'. The Woman is physically going through pain, the man, not so much.


You need to grow up allot in the next few years. One I can see you really do not know much about pain there are far more painful thing in life then giving birth. Such as a burn victims, being cut from belly button to you side to have surgery on the gualbaber, there are far more then I care to talk about. And child birth is an action done between to consenting adult. Get pregnant because both of you were to lazy or broke is no excuse.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I do place women far more responsible one this because unprotected sex women are far greater to come down with illness and a baby. but the thing that get me is just how much you by into this victim status if you see yourself as a victim you will always be one. Think for your self stop parenting other people trash.-----------------------------------------------------------The joy and pain of a parent and the commented to the child should be taken seriously just not and accident oh my I a victim. I had unprotected sex and look at what he did to me. I'm not not sure which is lesser of two evils the Noe Nazi feminist or I am a victim crowed
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Posted 8/21/10

tarakelly wrote:

A woman can chose to have the baby or not. What about the father what if he dose not want to pay child support for the baby. I have met my fair share of sea cows aka woman that gets pregnant and has no intention of not having the baby thinking the man they love is stuck to them. I some case I fairly sure the woman dose not have a clue who the father is. If a woman can have the freedom to pick a man should have the freedom not to have the kid. It takes two to make one and it should take two not to have one. I am tried of this viewpoint that women are victims in the US. equal rights means equal responsibility.

I was just wondering whether anyone here knows clearly the rights as according to law for both parents whether it is abortion, pregnancy or child adoption or custody.

Anyone here with good knowledge of law can elaborate? Cause all I am seeing here are basic superficial rights but not clearly defined rights as stated by law.
eg.
What rights of woman in different states of issue of abortion especially in cases of rape or medical difficulties?
What rights of both set of parents on child custody?
How is the man's rights by law related to a woman's rights on abortion, should there be consent from both set of parent before abortion is allowed or as it is a woman's body that such rights of abortion are purely on woman side?

So far only a brief mention of Rode vs Wade.
Engineer
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27 / M / California
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Posted 8/22/10
The woman should have the right to choose whether or not they want to have the baby but I think the man should be able to decide whether or not he wants to be financially responsible for the child. Both decisions would have to be made while there is still time to have an abortion, this way the man is not forced into a fatherhood position and the woman is able to have all the facts in order to make their decision before it's too late.

Most of these situations could be avoided by just wearing a condom if you do not want to have a baby but there is always the chance of there being a faulty condom or a chance of the condoms being intentionally tampered with and thus rendered useless. That is why I think men need more rights in this situation.
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Posted 8/22/10

phantomkirby wrote:


maffoo wrote:

The father chose to have sex with the woman and could have used protection, so I don't have much sympathy for him. Also, from what I understand of abortion it's an invasive procedure, and as with any surgical procedure there are risks, so IMO it would be wrong for the father to be able to force an abortion so he doesn't have to support the child.

Looking at it from an ethical point of view, I also can't see a doctor being prepared to carry out an abortion without the woman's consent.


Now, I am agreeing with your main point which is how abortion shouldn't be for the man's benefit to not have a child and such.

I think that the man can persuade the woman to either have or not have an abortion, though the woman is the one with the unborn baby inside of her.


You cannot have two entities with equal rights occupying one body. One will automatically have veto power over the other - and thus they don't have equal rights. In the case of a pregnant woman, giving a "right to life" to the potential person in the womb automatically cancels out the mother's right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.


http://www.elroy.net/ehr/abortionanswers.html


Well what if the father wants to keep it and the mother wants to abort it ?

The kid is 50% the fathers, so he should get some say. Women can't asexually reproduce.
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Posted 8/22/10

Allhailodin wrote:


phantomkirby wrote:


maffoo wrote:

The father chose to have sex with the woman and could have used protection, so I don't have much sympathy for him. Also, from what I understand of abortion it's an invasive procedure, and as with any surgical procedure there are risks, so IMO it would be wrong for the father to be able to force an abortion so he doesn't have to support the child.

Looking at it from an ethical point of view, I also can't see a doctor being prepared to carry out an abortion without the woman's consent.


Now, I am agreeing with your main point which is how abortion shouldn't be for the man's benefit to not have a child and such.

I think that the man can persuade the woman to either have or not have an abortion, though the woman is the one with the unborn baby inside of her.


You cannot have two entities with equal rights occupying one body. One will automatically have veto power over the other - and thus they don't have equal rights. In the case of a pregnant woman, giving a "right to life" to the potential person in the womb automatically cancels out the mother's right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.


http://www.elroy.net/ehr/abortionanswers.html


Well what if the father wants to keep it and the mother wants to abort it ?

The kid is 50% the fathers, so he should get some say. Women can't asexually reproduce.


Errr biologically it'd be 50% of the fathers, but since the woman is the one with the baby inside of her, I'd say she have the rights to abort it, though the father can still attempt to persuade the mother to keep it.
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Posted 8/22/10 , edited 8/22/10

phantomkirby wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


phantomkirby wrote:


maffoo wrote:

The father chose to have sex with the woman and could have used protection, so I don't have much sympathy for him. Also, from what I understand of abortion it's an invasive procedure, and as with any surgical procedure there are risks, so IMO it would be wrong for the father to be able to force an abortion so he doesn't have to support the child.

Looking at it from an ethical point of view, I also can't see a doctor being prepared to carry out an abortion without the woman's consent.


Now, I am agreeing with your main point which is how abortion shouldn't be for the man's benefit to not have a child and such.

I think that the man can persuade the woman to either have or not have an abortion, though the woman is the one with the unborn baby inside of her.


You cannot have two entities with equal rights occupying one body. One will automatically have veto power over the other - and thus they don't have equal rights. In the case of a pregnant woman, giving a "right to life" to the potential person in the womb automatically cancels out the mother's right to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.


http://www.elroy.net/ehr/abortionanswers.html


Well what if the father wants to keep it and the mother wants to abort it ?

The kid is 50% the fathers, so he should get some say. Women can't asexually reproduce.


Errr biologically it'd be 50% of the fathers, but since the woman is the one with the baby inside of her, I'd say she have the rights to abort it, though the father can still attempt to persuade the mother to keep it.


Its still 50% the fathers. The child is simply currently in the possession of the mother. Its being "Lent" to the mother by the father.

I can be owner of say an Xbox and lend it to you, but its still mine even tho its in your possession. That means I have say over what you are allowed to do with my Xbox. Same concept.

Well thats how I look at it.

Its the fathers possession but its just in the possession of the mother until the birth.
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Posted 8/22/10

Allhailodin wrote:
Its still 50% the fathers. The child is simply currently in the possession of the mother. Its being "Lent" to the mother by the father.

I can be owner of say an Xbox and lend it to you, but its still mine even tho its in your possession. That means I have say over what you are allowed to do with my Xbox. Same concept.

Well thats how I look at it.

Its the fathers possession but its just in the possession of the mother until the birth.


Your analogy is logical; however the baby is also 50% of the mothers and in addition to that, it is in the mother's body.

My opinion on this matter is that the two should both be in agreement on whether or not abort the fetus, however when neither can agree with each other, it must be the woman's choice on whether to abort or not.

That embryo is in the woman's body, it is within her and can't be separated from her, so it's not just her decision-making about whether to bear a child, it's about her body.
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