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Abortion woman rights but where are the mans rights.
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51 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 8/23/10
So your anti abortion so say it then, Why get all upset on something that you would not do. Here in the USA we have abortions I personally think late term abortion unless the mother will die are hidduos. But as a US tax payer and understanding the out come single mother birth the child is already dead. Between the coast of raising the child and DFACS we foot the bill the kids going to be in and out of prison or until it gets killed. The chance of a child coming through this is around ten percent and being productive person there another 20 percent that will always need government help. You want to foot the bill on this because some teenagers would not have protected sex. There is another 10 to 20 percent that grandma and grandpa if living will raise the baby.-----------------------------------------These numbers do not improve much as the woman gets older.
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Posted 8/23/10 , edited 8/23/10

DomFortress wrote:

And that gives you the rights to oppress women to go through unplanned pregnancy? How should I not to perceive your biased oppression towards women as a form of attack on their persons? As in what about the men who abandoned the women in the first place?


Well you can look at that several ways.

I look at that as follows.

If she didn't want to get pregnant then maybe she shouldn't have had unprotected sex.

If you don't want a kid but still want to have sex, then use protection. Or have your boyfriend/s get a vasectomy or she could get her tubes tied.

There are many ways to protect ones self from an unwanted child. If you neglect that and have unprotected sex and get an unplanned pregnancy, then its nobodies fault but your own.

Actions have consequences. If you have unprotected sex, you run the change of getting pregnant. It you choose not to use protection and still have sex and get pregnant, its your own fault, and you should have to reap the consequences of your actions.

I mean there are exceptions to that of course.

I support abortion in cases of rape.

However if you go out partying and sex with some guy and get pregnant as a result. Then you should be stuck with it. Its your own fault.


That's how I look at it anyway.


As for men who abandon women. If your referring to guys who go around and get random girls pregnant just for laughs, or guys who get a girl pregnant and when they find out that she knocked up, leave her. My opinion on that is quite simple.

Mandate that he gets a vasectomy. Problem solved.
53804 cr points
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51 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 8/23/10
in many cases the girls my not know how the father is sex is love to them because in many case they did not have a father. The fist parts of life mom plays a major roll then both parents do Dad has clean up duty the teen years he not involved High chance of pregnancy and boy trouble with the law. I do like your black and white thinking the world is many shade of gray but you will understand more as you understand youth is wasted on the young.
Posted 8/23/10 , edited 8/23/10

Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

And that gives you the rights to oppress women to go through unplanned pregnancy? How should I not to perceive your biased oppression towards women as a form of attack on their persons? As in what about the men who abandoned the women in the first place?




Mandate that he gets a vasectomy. Problem solved.
You just justified an oppression with yet another oppression on the opposite sex, are you thereby wanting to get yourself killed that badly by your own rule of "self-defense" coming from both sexes?

The way I see it, not only that your reasoning is full of illogical contradictions, you yourself is just full of hatred and dissatisfaction towards life as a whole. Therefore I don't think you're even making an informed choice, much less an educated guess, because you have no consideration as to other people's emotions. I mean honestly, while you're abandoning/ignoring women as a man yourself, don't tell me that you're willing to subject even yourself under the same rule that you've just made for all men as a whole.
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Posted 8/23/10

Allhailodin wrote:Well you can look at that several ways.
I look at that as follows.
If she didn't want to get pregnant then maybe she shouldn't have had unprotected sex.
If you don't want a kid but still want to have sex, then use protection. Or have your boyfriend/s get a vasectomy or she could get her tubes tied.
There are many ways to protect ones self from an unwanted child. If you neglect that and have unprotected sex and get an unplanned pregnancy, then its nobodies fault but your own.
Actions have consequences. If you have unprotected sex, you run the change of getting pregnant. It you choose not to use protection and still have sex and get pregnant, its your own fault, and you should have to reap the consequences of your actions.
I mean there are exceptions to that of course.
I support abortion in cases of rape.
However if you go out partying and sex with some guy and get pregnant as a result. Then you should be stuck with it. Its your own fault.
That's how I look at it anyway.
As for men who abandon women. If your referring to guys who go around and get random girls pregnant just for laughs, or guys who get a girl pregnant and when they find out that she knocked up, leave her. My opinion on that is quite simple.
Mandate that he gets a vasectomy. Problem solved.


I truly dislike cynicism as a sole basis for counterpoint debate. It only succeeds in souring a topic. It also starts me thinking-- just what has made this or that person so angry?
Are you okay?
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Posted 8/23/10
Good point...

Both parties are responsible in a pregnancy, both parties should also have equal rights. While the man shouldn't have a say in the abortion, he should have the choice to pay for child support or not.

During the initial discovery of pregnancy, there should be a mutual agreement. If the man agrees, he would also need to agree to support the child even in case of a divorce or for any other reason. This is to prevent the man from backing out of the decision and screwing over the woman down the road.

Now...I highly doubt that anything close to this will get passed. Laws seem to favour women in areas of this nature.
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Posted 8/23/10

DomFortress wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

And that gives you the rights to oppress women to go through unplanned pregnancy? How should I not to perceive your biased oppression towards women as a form of attack on their persons? As in what about the men who abandoned the women in the first place?




Mandate that he gets a vasectomy. Problem solved.


You just justified an oppression with yet another oppression on the opposite sex, are you thereby wanting to get yourself killed that badly by your own rule of "self-defense" coming from both sexes?

The way I see it, not only that your reasoning is full of illogical contradictions, you yourself is just full of hatred and dissatisfaction towards life as a whole. Therefore I don't think you're even making an informed choice, much less an educated guess, because you have no consideration as to other people's emotions. I mean honestly, while you're abandoning/ignoring women as a man yourself, don't tell me that you're willing to subject even yourself under the same rule that you've just made for all men as a whole.


So having safe sex to avoid getting pregnant is an illogical contradiction and an oppressive ? Condoms are illogical and oppressive ? If you don't want to get pregnant or get someone pregnant you have sex sex. Its simple common sense.

Its the girls own fault for not having safe sex. When you don't have sex sex, you run the risk of getting pregnant or getting someone pregnant. This is also common sense.

When someone makes a poor choice they suffer the consequences of it. When someone steals something they go to jail. Failing to have safe sex and getting pregnant is no different. Its the consequence of a poor choice.
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Posted 8/23/10

farmbird wrote:

I truly dislike cynicism as a sole basis for counterpoint debate. It only succeeds in souring a topic. It also starts me thinking-- just what has made this or that person so angry?
Are you okay?


So I'm angry for saying that if you don't want to get pregnant or get someone pregnant you have safe sex ? Hows that work ?

Its the girls fault. If she didn't want to get pregnant she shouldn't have had unprotected sex.
Posted 8/23/10

Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

And that gives you the rights to oppress women to go through unplanned pregnancy? How should I not to perceive your biased oppression towards women as a form of attack on their persons? As in what about the men who abandoned the women in the first place?




Mandate that he gets a vasectomy. Problem solved.


You just justified an oppression with yet another oppression on the opposite sex, are you thereby wanting to get yourself killed that badly by your own rule of "self-defense" coming from both sexes?

The way I see it, not only that your reasoning is full of illogical contradictions, you yourself is just full of hatred and dissatisfaction towards life as a whole. Therefore I don't think you're even making an informed choice, much less an educated guess, because you have no consideration as to other people's emotions. I mean honestly, while you're abandoning/ignoring women as a man yourself, don't tell me that you're willing to subject even yourself under the same rule that you've just made for all men as a whole.


So having safe sex to avoid getting pregnant is an illogical contradiction and an oppressive ? Condoms are illogical and oppressive ? If you don't want to get pregnant or get someone pregnant you have sex sex. Its simple common sense.

Its the girls own fault for not having safe sex. When you don't have sex sex, you run the risk of getting pregnant or getting someone pregnant. This is also common sense.

When someone makes a poor choice they suffer the consequences of it. When someone steals something they go to jail. Failing to have safe sex and getting pregnant is no different. Its the consequence of a poor choice.
Then you just made another illogical contradiction, when you dismissed early abortion as a part of total family planning options, safe sex included.
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Posted 8/24/10

Allhailodin wrote:

farmbird wrote:I truly dislike cynicism as a sole basis for counterpoint debate. It only succeeds in souring a topic. It also starts me thinking-- just what has made this or that person so angry?
Are you okay?

So I'm angry for saying that if you don't want to get pregnant or get someone pregnant you have safe sex ? Hows that work ?
Its the girls fault. If she didn't want to get pregnant she shouldn't have had unprotected sex.


This position of yours assumes that all sexual encounters are consensual. Such situations as date rape are w/o a woman's consent, most often when under the influence & incapacitated by drugs or alcohol. Sure, she had a choice in whether or not to ingest either of those, but that doesn't excuse the male party for taking advantage of her weakened condition of potentially being unable to discern if the act is one of unprotected sex, or by her inability to refuse or a lack of strength to fend off the male determination to have sex w/ her.
Yes, I agree the lack of responsible activity results in unwanted pregnancies, but what about the man's choice or determination to have unprotected sex? That becomes the man's responsibility by his choice regardless of the situation & the woman's decision.
Procreating is not the only reason for having intercourse, & herein lies the main difficulty with whether or not to "do it". The passion & pleasure often takes a person (male & female) beyond a point of no return for disciplined decision making, even w/o mind altering drink or drugs.
This will never be an either black or white situation ( & I'm not talking race here you understand ) since there are always several circumstances involved, not just a woman's lack of proper decision making.
Maybe you didn't intend your dialog to point so strongly at women, & if that is the case, then I think we are in agreement. If you don't agree w/ me, then I'm still curious as to what motivates, what appears to me, a one sided & very limited angry viewpoint.
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Posted 8/24/10

farmbird wrote:

This position of yours assumes that all sexual encounters are consensual. Such situations as date rape are w/o a woman's consent, most often when under the influence & incapacitated by drugs or alcohol. Sure, she had a choice in whether or not to ingest either of those, but that doesn't excuse the male party for taking advantage of her weakened condition of potentially being unable to discern if the act is one of unprotected sex, or by her inability to refuse or a lack of strength to fend off the male determination to have sex w/ her.
Yes, I agree the lack of responsible activity results in unwanted pregnancies, but what about the man's choice or determination to have unprotected sex? That becomes the man's responsibility by his choice regardless of the situation & the woman's decision.
Procreating is not the only reason for having intercourse, & herein lies the main difficulty with whether or not to "do it". The passion & pleasure often takes a person (male & female) beyond a point of no return for disciplined decision making, even w/o mind altering drink or drugs.
This will never be an either black or white situation ( & I'm not talking race here you understand ) since there are always several circumstances involved, not just a woman's lack of proper decision making.
Maybe you didn't intend your dialog to point so strongly at women, & if that is the case, then I think we are in agreement. If you don't agree w/ me, then I'm still curious as to what motivates, what appears to me, a one sided & very limited angry viewpoint.


If you had read my earlier post, I said I support abortion in the cases of rape. But that's it.


And mandating a vasectomy for those jackasses who go around getting girls pregnant for laughs, is imo no different than executing those jackasses who have AIDS and go around purposely spreading their AIDS to other people.
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Posted 8/24/10

DomFortress wrote:

Then you just made another illogical contradiction, when you dismissed early abortion as a part of total family planning options, safe sex included.


So when a women knows that she can get pregnant if she has unprotected sex, ignores that, has unprotected sex anyway and get pregnant. Its illogical to blame her for her making a poor choice ? That makes no sense. Its 100% her fault.
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Posted 8/24/10

Allhailodin wrote:If you had read my earlier post, I said I support abortion in the cases of rape. But that's it.
And mandating a vasectomy for those jackasses who go around getting girls pregnant for laughs, is imo no different than executing those jackasses who have AIDS and go around purposely spreading their AIDS to other people.


Yes, I read your words. Thank you for your compassion for women.
I had hoped to express not all acts of unexpected procreation are specifically due to acts of violence or against the will of the woman. Also not are all pregnancies resulting from rape are automatically aborted.

I also wouldn't want mandated vasectomies for all men of aggressive sexual conduct, except that each case be carefully judged within the circumstances. Such extreme punishment may have to be considered someday, esp. in cases involving repeat offenders, sociopaths, or pedophiles, but I would not be comfortable having to make that judgement. By the very definition of law allowing a woman the right decide whether to have an abortion, so should a man be given the same consideration for his body.
(Tho I kinda would consider castration in the AIDS cases you mentioned.... how should women similarly spreading AIDS be punished?)
Thanks again! this has been a valuable debate for me w/ the new perspectives & insights from you.
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Posted 8/24/10

farmbird wrote:

Yes, I read your words. Thank you for your compassion for women.
I had hoped to express not all acts of unexpected procreation are specifically due to acts of violence or against the will of the woman. Also not are all pregnancies resulting from rape are automatically aborted.


If a girl has unprotected sex with a man, and gets pregnant, its her fault, as she knew the risks, but choose to ignore them.


I also wouldn't want mandated vasectomies for all men of aggressive sexual conduct, except that each case be carefully judged within the circumstances. Such extreme punishment may have to be considered someday, esp. in cases involving repeat offenders, sociopaths, or pedophiles, but I would not be comfortable having to make that judgement. By the very definition of law allowing a woman the right decide whether to have an abortion, so should a man be given the same consideration for his body.


Repeat offenders - neuter / sterilize
Sociopath has nothing to do with sexuality - Sociopath = Antisocial Personality Disorder
Pedophiles - sure why not, we can neuter them too.


(Tho I kinda would consider castration in the AIDS cases you mentioned.... how should women similarly spreading AIDS be punished?)
Thanks again! this has been a valuable debate for me w/ the new perspectives & insights from you.


If I would neuter / sterilize men who go around getting girls pregnant or spreading AIDS, the logically I would spay / sterilize women who do the same.
Posted 8/24/10

Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Then you just made another illogical contradiction, when you dismissed early abortion as a part of total family planning options, safe sex included.


So when a women knows that she can get pregnant if she has unprotected sex, ignores that, has unprotected sex anyway and get pregnant. Its illogical to blame her for her making a poor choice ? That makes no sense. Its 100% her fault.
So what about the man? You biased sexist pig.
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