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Sex before Marriage?
Posted 4/12/11 , edited 4/12/11

Okazu606 wrote:



What are you on about? Are you suggesting having sex before marriage is dangerous because you might get pregnant or contract and STD? If that's the case, I don't think you have any idea of what the actual chance of either thing happening is.
What about the neurological element of biochemistry in the human brain, both during and after sex, that can be the catalyst for forming romantic intimacy? Do you even know about sex as a form of addiction? That will give you something real to scare about sex itself, considering how you would rather prefer impersonal socialization for yourself.
Posted 4/12/11

DomFortress wrote:


Okazu606 wrote:



What are you on about? Are you suggesting having sex before marriage is dangerous because you might get pregnant or contract and STD? If that's the case, I don't think you have any idea of what the actual chance of either thing happening is.
What about the neurological element of biochemistry in the human brain, both during and after sex, that can be the catalyst for forming romantic intimacy? Do you even know about sex as a form of addiction? That will give you something real to scare about sex itself, considering how you would rather prefer impersonal socialization for yourself.


What are you on about? Are you suggesting that premaritial sex is dangerous because it might lead to the developmet of a sex addiction? Should the chance of developing a sex addiction due to pre-maritial intercourse be elevated compared to that of post-maritial intercourse? Are you aware that a so-called "sex addiction" is not an established term or generally recognized condition?

From wikipedia:

Sexologists have not reached any consensus regarding whether sexual addiction exists or, if it does, how to describe the phenomenon.[1][2] Some experts believe that sexual addiction is literally an addiction, directly analogous to alcohol and drug addictions. Other experts believe that sexual addiction is actually a form of obsessive compulsive disorder and refer to it as sexual compulsivity.[3] Still other experts believe that sex addiction is itself a myth, a by-product of cultural and other influences.
Posted 4/12/11

Okazu606 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

What about the neurological element of biochemistry in the human brain, both during and after sex, that can be the catalyst for forming romantic intimacy? Do you even know about sex as a form of addiction? That will give you something real to scare about sex itself, considering how you would rather prefer impersonal socialization for yourself.


What are you on about? Are you suggesting that premaritial sex is dangerous because it might lead to the developmet of a sex addiction? Should the chance of developing a sex addiction due to pre-maritial intercourse be elevated compared to that of post-maritial intercourse? Are you aware that a so-called "sex addiction" is not an established term or generally recognized condition?

From wikipedia:

Sexologists have not reached any consensus regarding whether sexual addiction exists or, if it does, how to describe the phenomenon.[1][2] Some experts believe that sexual addiction is literally an addiction, directly analogous to alcohol and drug addictions. Other experts believe that sexual addiction is actually a form of obsessive compulsive disorder and refer to it as sexual compulsivity.[3] Still other experts believe that sex addiction is itself a myth, a by-product of cultural and other influences.
Yet none of them challenged the often recognized and well established neurological chemistry of sex, so your pseudoscience argument on behaviourism is moot.

Sex’s Hidden Hangover

What neurochemical mechanism drives intimate partners apart with such predictability? Astonishingly, it is built right into fertilization-driven sex. Over-stimulation of the limbic system triggers sexual satiation neurochemicals, which radically change our outlook toward each other.

Unlike other mammals, who confine their mating frenzies to periods of estrus, humans can become sexually aroused at any time. Unfortunately, the blasts of dopamine that accompany sexual climax are potentially highly addictive and would interfere with other evolutionary priorities, such as hunting and gathering or feeding infants. Indeed, when researchers wired rats so that they could push a lever in their cages to stimulate the nerves on which dopamine acts, the rats pushed the lever until they dropped, not stopping to eat or mate (Olds, 1954). To protect against this result, humans, too, possess a mechanism for sexual self-regulation. Ours, however, is more akin to starting and stopping in heavy traffic, leaving us vulnerable to intense cravings and relationship friction.

What evidence is there that sex over-stimulates the brain? In 2003, a Dutch scientist reported that brain scans of people having orgasm resemble scans of a heroin rush (Holstege, 2003). Dopamine soars during copulation and orgasm. (Putnam, 2001) These natural highs are only the first part of a neurochemical roller coaster ride - a ride that is essentially the cycle of all addictions. As we will see in a moment, after orgasm, dopamine plummets, prolactin soars, and androgen receptor activity drops off for up to a week. In short, "what goes up must come down," returning us to homeostasis.

Sadly, these subsequent neurochemical shifts lead to radical changes in perception, coloring our perception and altering our behavior. When the neurochemistry of passion pounds between our ears, we see "Mr." or "Ms. Right." When the hangover kicks in, we may see "Mr. Hyde" or "Medusa." Or we "need space," overreact to remarks, feel needy, or find third parties compellingly attractive. During this natural recovery period we may also experience intense cravings, as we unconsciously seek to raise our dopamine levels again.(citation)
Posted 4/12/11

Okazu606 wrote:


Pitch-black wrote:


Manga_Lou wrote:

When I was at high school; I was in a group of teenagers formed to help their mates make the best decisions in their life especially about sexuality. So we tried to convince everyone to wait for marriage to have sex. That was our goal, a challenge, but when you are facing life,things are very different. I'm not married yet but I'm sexually active. For me, it's not a problem to have sex before marriage as long as you assume your choice; it's your life so don"t play games!!


There is an off chance you might have some issues with your sexuality in terms of illegitimate children or infections, but as for telling others to not play games with their lives, you might need to retract that statement, since you yourself are playing with a fire that burns fiercer than any other.


What are you on about? Are you suggesting having sex before marriage is dangerous because you might get pregnant or contract and STD? If that's the case, I don't think you have any idea of what the actual chance of either thing happening is.


Such witty sarcasm. Really, that was brilliant. I applaud you.

And the percentage of chance depends on the preventative measures. Condoms are typically 85% effective against pregnancy, but the pores in them are larger than the HIV virus. If it isn't disease or children a person worries about, it is something ethical, but our societies have loosened up a great deal in past years.
Posted 4/12/11 , edited 4/12/11

Pitch-black wrote:



Such witty sarcasm. Really, that was brilliant. I applaud you.

And the percentage of chance depends on the preventative measures. Condoms are typically 85% effective against pregnancy, but the pores in them are larger than the HIV virus. If it isn't disease or children a person worries about, it is something ethical, but our societies have loosened up a great deal in past years.
Which is precisely where I'm challenging on sex being an addiction, due to the neurological and biochemical features of the human brain during mating. But that's exactly why cuddling after sex is important for building healthy intimacy, because that's how to normally sustain those dopamine towards oxytocin.

3. Oxytocin (the cuddle chemical) is produced through the stimulation of dopamine. This chemical makes people calmer and more sensitive to the feelings of others. It makes people want to cuddle and may also induce high quality REM sleep.(citation)

Ironically, this makes sex workers who are selling sex for drug money kinda an economic oxymoron. They're much better off milking their consumers dry, and not letting them to have seconds in order to hook them on their cravings. Can we say assisted-dating much?
Posted 4/12/11 , edited 4/12/11

Pitch-black wrote:


Okazu606 wrote:


Pitch-black wrote:


Manga_Lou wrote:

When I was at high school; I was in a group of teenagers formed to help their mates make the best decisions in their life especially about sexuality. So we tried to convince everyone to wait for marriage to have sex. That was our goal, a challenge, but when you are facing life,things are very different. I'm not married yet but I'm sexually active. For me, it's not a problem to have sex before marriage as long as you assume your choice; it's your life so don"t play games!!


There is an off chance you might have some issues with your sexuality in terms of illegitimate children or infections, but as for telling others to not play games with their lives, you might need to retract that statement, since you yourself are playing with a fire that burns fiercer than any other.


What are you on about? Are you suggesting having sex before marriage is dangerous because you might get pregnant or contract and STD? If that's the case, I don't think you have any idea of what the actual chance of either thing happening is.


Such witty sarcasm. Really, that was brilliant. I applaud you.

And the percentage of chance depends on the preventative measures. Condoms are typically 85% effective against pregnancy, but the pores in them are larger than the HIV virus. If it isn't disease or children a person worries about, it is something ethical, but our societies have loosened up a great deal in past years.


First off, is it necessary to insult me or mock me?

Secondly, you're manipulating with the figures and I'd like to see a reliable source that condoms do not block HIV.

The rate of breakage is between 0.4% and 2.3%, while the rate of slippage is between 0.6% and 1.3%. That means a condom is 96% or more effective against pregnancy when used correct. When used incorrectly, the pregnancy rate is 15% over a year and when used correctly the pregancy rate is 2% over a year. Let's say a couple is having intercourse 100 times a year and uses a condom for prevention, the chance of getting pregnant is 0.02% if a condom is used correctly and 0.15% if the condom is used incorrectly. That means the chance of getting pregnant with a condom is 1-750 if used incorrectly, and 1-5.000 if used correctly.

With birth control pills when used correctly, the chance of getting pregant is 0.003% or 1-33.333 if we assume a couple has intercourse a little less than twice a week.

As for STDs, in order to contract one, you need to have intercourse with a person who is carrying one. If you are not infected with an STD and your partner is not, you have 0% chance of getting infected with an STD.

The chance of contracting HIV when having intercourse with an infected person is for a man, without the use of condom, 0.04% and for a woman, without the use of a condom, 0.08%. The use of condom reduces that risk by another 80-95% meaning that for a woman having sex with an HIV infected person with a condom, the chance of contracting HIV is 0.016% - 0.004% and for a man 0.008% - 0.002% or between 1-6.250 and 1-25.000 for women and between 1-12.500 and 1-50.000 if you're a man.

That is extremely low odds. Now, in the USA it is estimated there is 1.1 million people infected with HIV. And a population of 308 million people. That means 1 in 280 person is infected with HIV. Even disregarding how certain groups of the population are far over representated in the statitistics, like drug addicts, prostitutes and gay males, the chance of contracting HIV is 1/280th of 0.016% - 0.004% for women and 1/280th of 0.008% - 0.002% for men.





Posted 4/12/11


So, you are saying that gay men have the highest probability of contracting and spreading HIV? That is just low and underhanded, sir.
Posted 4/12/11

DomFortress wrote:


Pitch-black wrote:



Such witty sarcasm. Really, that was brilliant. I applaud you.

And the percentage of chance depends on the preventative measures. Condoms are typically 85% effective against pregnancy, but the pores in them are larger than the HIV virus. If it isn't disease or children a person worries about, it is something ethical, but our societies have loosened up a great deal in past years.
Which is precisely where I'm challenging on sex being an addiction, due to the neurological and biochemical features of the human brain during mating. But that's exactly why cuddling after sex is important for building healthy intimacy, because that's how to normally sustain those dopamine towards oxytocin.

3. Oxytocin (the cuddle chemical) is produced through the stimulation of dopamine. This chemical makes people calmer and more sensitive to the feelings of others. It makes people want to cuddle and may also induce high quality REM sleep.(citation)

Ironically, this makes sex workers who are selling sex for drug money kinda an economic oxymoron. They're much better off milking their consumers dry, and not letting them to have seconds in order to hook them on their cravings. Can we say assisted-dating much?


Ah, yes, the old love hormone. A man is noted to be able to suppress is with testosterone, (which increases during sex) yet a woman often doesn't have the same ability to have casual sex and move one from it due to attachment. A sex worker of the female variety is conditioned to feel little to nothing for her clients, so the problem with attachment is mostly nullified. Addiction to the pleasurable sensations and euphoria following intercourse finishing with orgasm is the necessary incentive not only to attract customers for the sex worker, but the survival of our species, in many senses.
Posted 4/12/11

Okazu606 wrote:



First off, is it necessary to insult me or mock me?

Secondly, you're manipulating with the figures and I'd like to see a reliable source that condoms do not block HIV.

The rate of breakage is between 0.4% and 2.3%, while the rate of slippage is between 0.6% and 1.3%. That means a condom is 96% or more effective against pregnancy when used correct. When used incorrectly, the pregnancy rate is 15% over a year and when used correctly the pregancy rate is 2% over a year. Let's say a couple is having intercourse 100 times a year and uses a condom for prevention, the chance of getting pregnant is 0.02% if a condom is used correctly and 0.15% if the condom is used incorrectly. That means the chance of getting pregnant with a condom is 1-750 if used incorrectly, and 1-5.000 if used correctly.

With birth control pills when used correctly, the chance of getting pregant is 0.003% or 1-33.333 if we assume a couple has intercourse a little less than twice a week.

As for STDs, in order to contract one, you need to have intercourse with a person who is carrying one. If you are not infected with an STD and your partner is not, you have 0% chance of getting infected with an STD.

The chance of contracting HIV when having intercourse with an infected person is for a man, without the use of condom, 0.04% and for a woman, without the use of a condom, 0.08%. The use of condom reduces that risk by another 80-95% meaning that for a woman having sex with an HIV infected person with a condom, the chance of contracting HIV is 0.016% - 0.004% and for a man 0.008% - 0.002% or between 1-6.250 and 1-25.000 for women and between 1-12.500 and 1-50.000 if you're a man.

That is extremely low odds. Now, in the USA it is estimated there is 1.1 million people infected with HIV. And a population of 308 million people. That means 1 in 280 person is infected with HIV. Even disregarding how certain groups of the population are far over representated in the statitistics, like drug addicts, prostitutes and gay males, the chance of contracting HIV is 1/280th of 0.016% - 0.004% for women and 1/280th of 0.008% - 0.002% for men.
That statistic is broken, when you automatically assumed that there's only one steady sexual partner for every couples. While the human sexuality of casual sex isn't mutually exclusive.
Posted 4/13/11 , edited 4/13/11

Pitch-black wrote:



So, you are saying that gay men have the highest probability of contracting and spreading HIV? That is just low and underhanded, sir.


No, that's not what I said. Are you intellectually challenged?

"Even disregarding how certain groups of the population are far over representated in the statitistics, like drug addicts, prostitutes and gay males"

I'm saying that certain groups of people are over representated in the statistics of HIV infected. That's not low or underhanded, that's a fact.
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Posted 4/13/11

Pitch-black wrote:

It seems you gave up on your noble inspiration from youth in order to give in to lust. But hey, the adult world is a very different place than that of a child's, right? The lines between right and wrong blur, and we all take a seat in the gray area.


I didn't give up on that inspiration , I just grew up and stepped into adult world as you said. It helped me understand sexual life: what are the risks, which decisions to make, how to prevent those risks ...It helped me not having sex too young. I think that's the most important thing to remember. That's the most important thing to me.



Posted 4/13/11 , edited 4/13/11

Pitch-black wrote:



Ah, yes, the old love hormone. A man is noted to be able to suppress is with testosterone, (which increases during sex) yet a woman often doesn't have the same ability to have casual sex and move one from it due to attachment. A sex worker of the female variety is conditioned to feel little to nothing for her clients, so the problem with attachment is mostly nullified. Addiction to the pleasurable sensations and euphoria following intercourse finishing with orgasm is the necessary incentive not only to attract customers for the sex worker, but the survival of our species, in many senses.
Actually, no. When testosterone only makes men hornier and prone to retardants:

Dr Fisher divides love into three categories involving different brain systems: 1) Lust (the craving for sexual gratification), driven by androgens and estrogens; 2) Attraction (or romantic or passionate love, characterized by euphoria when things are going well, terrible mood swings when they’re not, focused attention, obsessive thinking, and intense craving for the individual), driven by high dopamine and norepinephrine levels and low serotonin; and 3) Attachment (the sense of calm, peace, and stability one feels with a long-term partner) driven by the hormones oxytocin and vasopressin.

"I think the sex drive evolved to get you out there to get looking for anything at all," she told her audience. Romantic love, she thinks, developed to focus one’s mating energy on just one individual while attachment works to tolerate this individual long enough to raise children as a team.

These systems are also connected. "Don’t copulate with people you don’t want to fall in love with," she half-jokingly tells her students, "because indeed you may do just that." Testosterone can kickstart the two love neurotransmitters while an orgasm can elevate the attachment hormones. But the brain systems remained separate units, probably to allow each partner to cheat on the other. This would have enhanced Alley Oop’s chances of transmitting his genes. A philandering Clan of the Cave Bear babe, meanwhile, would have had an insurance policy had her main squeeze ended up as a baby mastodon’s throw toy.

Romantic love, Dr Fisher believes, is a stronger craving than sex. People who don’t get sex don’t kill themselves, she said. On the other hand, it is not adaptive to be romantically in love for 20 years. "First of all," she confided, "we would all die of sexual exhaustion." Not surprisingly, the subjects in her study who had been in love the longest (17 months) displayed markers in the brain indicating the beginnings of "the satiation response."(citation)

And this level of male retardants makes the man box such an addiction for recklessness, so better off acting on a word of caution through cultivating compassion and great leadership.


Okazu606 wrote:


Pitch-black wrote:



So, you are saying that gay men have the highest probability of contracting and spreading HIV? That is just low and underhanded, sir.


No, that's not what I said. Are you intellectually challenged?

"Even disregarding how certain groups of the population are far over representated in the statitistics, like drug addicts, prostitutes and gay males"

I'm saying that certain groups of people are over representated in the statistics of HIV infected. That's not low or underhanded, that's a fact.
Why the distinction of gay males? When that's not the only homosexual gender around. Whatever happened to male sex trade workers? And drug addicts who didn't contract HIV through sexual intercourse?


Manga_Lou wrote:



I didn't give up on that inspiration , I just grew up and stepped into adult world as you said. It helped me understand sexual life: what are the risks, which decisions to make, how to prevent those risks ...It helped me not having sex too young. I think that's the most important thing to remember. That's the most important thing to me.
Sexual experience isn't the sole determine factor of adulthood. Responsibility is.
Posted 4/13/11


Okay, third time will be a charm.

Once again, this claim about homosexuals being overrepresented in statistics about AIDS is merely your own attempt to appear as though you support their rights, but I know for a fact that you are severely homophobic and bigoted. Denmark is strongly anti-gay and a totalitarian dictatorship of antisemitism rivaling the even the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany.

I am appalled at your attempts to appear moral. So appalled that I might renounce the part of my own ancestry that is Danish.
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Posted 4/24/11
ITS INEVITABLE!
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Posted 4/25/11
Nothing magical happens when you get married. -__- So I don't know why anyone should feel pressured to wait. Sure, you can if you want, but why pressure others into doing it, too? If that's your thing, great. If it isn't, that's great, too. Be safe.
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