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Are We all "Really" here?
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22 / M / England
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Posted 8/28/10
even if this is true and we arnt "really" here, we are unaware of it and can therefore continue to live our lives whether they are real or not
ignorance is bliss after all
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24 / F / New York City
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Posted 8/28/10
This is reality and for you to not pick up the bible and know it, then you are just indenial.
Posted 8/28/10

popcornpuffs wrote:

This is reality and for you to not pick up the bible and know it, then you are just in denial.
How is it that an entitlement claim not based on facts nor logic can still be an objective truth about reality? Without itself resulting as a pattern of self-deception and ethnocentrism, due to natural human irrationalities and fallacies known as "loss aversion", "confirmation bias", and "representativeness".

And if that wasn't enough, how about your plain old narcissism epidemic?
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24 / F / New York City
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Posted 8/31/10 , edited 8/31/10
I have my five senses with me. This is reality! wtf are u on mofo? We were created by our loving creator God. You are also arrogant and because you use these long strong vocabulary you think you are smart and you can defile anyone? You make me laugh and You are wrong. Darling, God's people can see right through you. There is something inside of you that is hurting, this is reality and DON"T give people false information and make them lose faith. God bless you and I wish you can let in God(Jesus) in your life Explore nature, and preach God word if you have nothing better to do.
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Posted 8/31/10
I don't really give a shit whether I really exist or not, though the thought of it might sound interesting.
I feel alive. ._.


DomFortress wrote:


popcornpuffs wrote:

This is reality and for you to not pick up the bible and know it, then you are just in denial.
How is it that an entitlement claim not based on facts nor logic can still be an objective truth about reality? Without itself resulting as a pattern of self-deception and ethnocentrism, due to natural human irrationalities and fallacies known as "loss aversion", "confirmation bias", and "representativeness".

And if that wasn't enough, how about your plain old narcissism epidemic?


I bet THIS argument would take 10 pages of "I'm still not convinced" blabbers.
The thing is, you can't force everyone to eat your own beliefs.
Posted 8/31/10

Phyzjob wrote:

I don't really give a shit whether I really exist or not, though the thought of it might sound interesting.
I feel alive. ._.


DomFortress wrote:


popcornpuffs wrote:

This is reality and for you to not pick up the bible and know it, then you are just in denial.
How is it that an entitlement claim not based on facts nor logic can still be an objective truth about reality? Without itself resulting as a pattern of self-deception and ethnocentrism, due to natural human irrationalities and fallacies known as "loss aversion", "confirmation bias", and "representativeness".

And if that wasn't enough, how about your plain old narcissism epidemic?


I bet THIS argument would take 10 pages of "I'm still not convinced" blabbers.
The thing is, you can't force everyone to eat your own beliefs.
Not necessarily the case, when the counterargument itself was again full of religiously biased entitlement claims, while ignoring all factual based evidences.

And get this, for workplace psychopaths who don't have emotional feelings, they can however manipulate people within any organization via social mechanism:

Accordingly, sociopaths can make for effective salesmen, politicians and con-artists if they are bright enough to pull off the manipulations required. When they come to the attention of psychologists or psychiatrists, they will generally be diagnosed with Antisocial or Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

The classical understanding of sociopathy is that they behave the way they do in part because they have an empathy deficit; an inability to put themselves into another's shoes and feel the feelings that that other person might feel if they were to be abused or mistreated. This is not the same thing as saying that a sociopath cannot put themselves into another person's shoes. On the contrary, sociopaths can be quite skillful observers of other people's experience. They can represent how another is feeling even though they don't relate to that emotional experience in particular. Sociopaths are thought to have a leg up on other people with regard to being skillful observers and predictors of what others are thinking and feeling precisely because they aren't distracted by concerns about their own self-worth, or the reasonableness of such manipulative behavior. They freely observe how their behavior influences other people and then use this knowledge to manipulate other people into giving them what they want, whether that is money, sexual favors, or some other desirable thing. It doesn't typically trouble them that in the process of conning someone into sleeping with them, or making a sale that they might be very consciously lying to that other person. If it does trouble them, they manage to compartmentalize their discomfort so that it doesn't interfere with their instrumental and manipulative behavior. (citation)
In other words, as soon as the psychopaths find an emotional need or a weakness within your own personality, that's when they'll capitalize your own decision-making process(aka judgment) through politics:

ROBERT HARE’S PSYCHOPATHY CHECKLIST

“He will choose you, disarm you with his words, and control you with his presence. He will delight you with his wit and his plans. He will show you a good time, but you will always get the bill. He will smile and deceive you, and he will scare you with his eyes. And when he is through with you, and he will be through with you, he will desert you and take with him your innocence and your pride. You will be left much sadder but not a lot wiser, and for a long time you will wonder what happened and what you did wrong. And if another of his kind comes knocking at your door, will you open it?” (quoted by Hare, Without Conscience, 21)

“When I’m on the job the first thing I do is I size you up. I look for an angle, an edge, figure out what you need and give it to you. Then it’s pay-back time, with interest. I tighten the screws.” (quoted by Hare, 147)(citation)
Now do you see why I placed so much emphasis on the human emotions, when our civilization isn't held together by laws and orders or even organized religions, but rather it's through empathy.
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58 / F / Midwest, rural Am...
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Posted 8/31/10
The questions brought up by this topic, as well as questions this topic has created for me tend to fit into the same general subject matter.
It is the concept of Fallacy vs. Fantasy: How is the mind able to distinguish between an out right lie & a merely entertaining intentional fabrication? I suggest two areas of cognizant mental function are necessary to understand our reality.

Somewhere I remember reading how, first, the maturity process of the brain develops a defined perception of self as a part of the universe instead of being the center of the universe, that is: all things do not belong to, nor are they subject to self, they are not the center of their world. Toddlerhood vs. early Elementary- this maturity milestone begins somewhere around the 5th to 7th yr of life.

The next area of mental maturation is pretty well established between the 9th to 11th yr. It is the recognition of the concepts of 'true & false', both as an understanding of the consequences of lying, & a separation from the imaginary (no, Virginia, there really isn't- but you already knew that now didn't you?!)

Thinking back to my own childhood, the imaginary world was just as necessary to my life as food, water, family, & home. "Let's pretend" was a daily exercise of my existence, & tho it was also a completely separate part of my world, it was still treated by me as just as real as the non-imaginary one. I don't remember any specific moment of separation or recognition of real & make believe, but I'm pretty certain during my pre-school yrs. there absolutely were scary monsters in the closet, & then later in my early elementary yrs. only the suggestion that I once believed scary things were in the closet could still make me run at night thru the darkened hallway from the bathroom to my bed & pull the covers over my head. To this day, I do not, nor have I ever, enjoyed horror or slasher movies. Even tho I know it's all just movie special effects, there is still a part of me cringing at the suggestions, & I will lift my feet off the floor trying to get rid of the creepy tingling that threatens to rise up thru my legs & give me shivers.

Self-awareness of our reality is represented in many ways in our lives, right? It's how we interact daily, with people, with the job, in recreation or relaxation, thru organizing & planning our time. It is also present in how we perceive the fantasies of life. Do we enjoy fiction or non-fiction? TV dramas, cartoons, or reality shows, etc. How we feel about each of these sorts of things becomes a part of who we are & how we perceive ourself. Therefore, they are an integral part of our existence, our own personal reality, whether it is true for someone else or not has no baring on its validity to each of us as unique individuals, for we do indeed create our own reality. I frequently find myself smack dab in the middle of rejecting this or that reality & inputting my own. Life will then sometimes run smoother, when its not crashing into someone else's reality planted firmly in my path.
Posted 8/31/10

farmbird wrote:

The questions brought up by this topic, as well as questions this topic has created for me tend to fit into the same general subject matter.
It is the concept of Fallacy vs. Fantasy: How is the mind able to distinguish between an out right lie & a merely entertaining intentional fabrication? I suggest two areas of cognizant mental function are necessary to understand our reality.

Somewhere I remember reading how, first, the maturity process of the brain develops a defined perception of self as a part of the universe instead of being the center of the universe, that is: all things do not belong to, nor are they subject to self, they are not the center of their world. Toddlerhood vs. early Elementary- this maturity milestone begins somewhere around the 5th to 7th yr of life.

The next area of mental maturation is pretty well established between the 9th to 11th yr. It is the recognition of the concepts of 'true & false', both as an understanding of the consequences of lying, & a separation from the imaginary (no, Virginia, there really isn't- but you already knew that now didn't you?!)

Thinking back to my own childhood, the imaginary world was just as necessary to my life as food, water, family, & home. "Let's pretend" was a daily exercise of my existence, & tho it was also a completely separate part of my world, it was still treated by me as just as real as the non-imaginary one. I don't remember any specific moment of separation or recognition of real & make believe, but I'm pretty certain during my pre-school yrs. there absolutely were scary monsters in the closet, & then later in my early elementary yrs. only the suggestion that I once believed scary things were in the closet could still make me run at night thru the darkened hallway from the bathroom to my bed & pull the covers over my head. To this day, I do not, nor have I ever, enjoyed horror or slasher movies. Even tho I know it's all just movie special effects, there is still a part of me cringing at the suggestions, & I will lift my feet off the floor trying to get rid of the creepy tingling that threatens to rise up thru my legs & give me shivers.

Self-awareness of our reality is represented in many ways in our lives, right? It's how we interact daily, with people, with the job, in recreation or relaxation, thru organizing & planning our time. It is also present in how we perceive the fantasies of life. Do we enjoy fiction or non-fiction? TV dramas, cartoons, or reality shows, etc. How we feel about each of these sorts of things becomes a part of who we are & how we perceive ourself. Therefore, they are an integral part of our existence, our own personal reality, whether it is true for someone else or not has no baring on its validity to each of us as unique individuals, for we do indeed create our own reality. I frequently find myself smack dab in the middle of rejecting this or that reality & inputting my own. Life will then sometimes run smoother, when its not crashing into someone else's reality planted firmly in my path.
I think what you just described was how pretend play/role play works throughout child development:

But role play is more than fun...it's a key component of learning. According to child development experts, role play helps children acquire all kinds of skills and knowledge, encouraging them to:

* Explore imagination
* Think in the abstract
* Acquire language skills
* Build social skills
* Problem solve
* Understand someone else's perspective
* Learn essential life skills from adults
* Discover leadership skills
* Safely explore the world beyond
* Acquire confidence and a sense of self

If that isn't amazing enough, consider this: because role play engages emotion, cognition, language, and sensory motor skills, scientists theorize it actually creates synaptic connections between parts of the brain. And the more synapses, the greater a child's intelligence!(citation)
It also reminds me how important our own individually personal story is to our collectively shared existence.
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58 / F / Midwest, rural Am...
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Posted 9/1/10

DomFortress wrote:


It also reminds me how important our own individually personal story is to our collectively shared existence.



Guess I ended up going on a bit of a tangent. I was exploring the beginnings of the minds awarenesses of reality,-- I think.



what's not to believe the possibility of our self-awareness/"creation" was caused by manipulation of our sensory perception alone? As in how we can be sure that anyone of us really exist as we are now?

--- I quoted this from your OP:

I wonder... how do the shared human experiences fit into the question of the reality ( or potential fallacy ) of our existence?
( I truly would like your thoughts; this isn't posed as a rhetorical question!)
Posted 9/1/10 , edited 9/1/10

farmbird wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


It also reminds me how important our own individually personal story is to our collectively shared existence.



Guess I ended up going on a bit of a tangent. I was exploring the beginnings of the minds awarenesses of reality,-- I think.



what's not to believe the possibility of our self-awareness/"creation" was caused by manipulation of our sensory perception alone? As in how we can be sure that anyone of us really exist as we are now?

--- I quoted this from your OP:

I wonder... how do the shared human experiences fit into the question of the reality ( or potential fallacy ) of our existence?
( I truly would like your thoughts; this isn't posed as a rhetorical question!)
That subjectively speaking, everyone you've encounter are having the exact same problem. While objectively speaking, we're still all solving the same question, by us continuously establishing relationships all around us. This common disposition that we all share is the equalizer that's greater that "life after death", and one that I'm both biologically happy and psychologically willing to embrace as the purpose wherein this lifetime of mine. When only the courageously brave and the bold can embark on a journey of discovery, actualization, and assertiveness.
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30 / M
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Posted 9/2/10
I recommend taking any course in metaphysics. I don't think metaphysics really move us forward in any direction, but they're fun mind games.

If you don't want to take a course in metaphysics, Plato's cave or Descartes' Meditations are good starting points.
Posted 9/2/10

tarakelly wrote:

Aside from being distastefully racist and stereotypically exaggerated, what's your comment has got anything to do with my topic? Or do I have to report your statement as trolling?


GoodAsianDriver wrote:

I recommend taking any course in metaphysics. I don't think metaphysics really move us forward in any direction, but they're fun mind games.

If you don't want to take a course in metaphysics, Plato's cave or Descartes' Meditations are good starting points.
Sorry, but those premises were all stem from the assumption that some supernatural being is subjectively manipulating our wills. Whereas I OTOH is proposing that nature has its own objective, yet we've been ignoring it due to our own cultural upbringing.
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30 / M
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Posted 9/2/10
I don't see how those premises "were all stem from the assumption that some supernatural being is subjectively manipulating our wills." I don't think I understand what you're trying to say.

It seems to me that you're already fulfilling your own "cultural upbringing." ;-o.
Posted 9/2/10 , edited 9/2/10

GoodAsianDriver wrote:

I don't see how those premises "were all stem from the assumption that some supernatural being is subjectively manipulating our wills." I don't think I understand what you're trying to say.

It seems to me that you're already fulfilling your own "cultural upbringing." ;-o.
Let's see now, while both Plato and Descartes were well known to be theists themselves, I OTOH was only citing academic research based on natural science. When sociology sees human culture as both artificial and arbitrary, as well as unnatural.
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19 / F / planet pluto
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Posted 9/2/10
I used to wonder that stuff all the time,
then I thought too much into it thinking about other things like
what if my friends arn't real and im talking to air, and everyone thinks i'm crazy
or that everyone could read my mind... that freaked me out then i realized if it ends up being that all this is true its better not to know
to just live happy in my own little real or fake world
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