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Are We all "Really" here?
Posted 1/1/11

Cuddlebuns wrote:


DomFortress wrote:
Can basic math be subjective under human culture? Is the rule of non-contradiction a byproduct of human cognitive ability alone? Or they're simply a part of objective reality existing outside of ourselves, just as we're a part of that existence.


Basic math can be subjective depending on one's level of knowledge. So a bunch of people who are uneducated will have different answers to basic math problems. Once we become educated, all we do is learn an almost-universally agreed upon method of math. It is universally agreed upon because we universally perceive it a certain way. But how do we know our accepted perception of an objective concept of math is accurate when perception itself is a subjective concept?

As I stated before, even though they may be a part of an objective reality that is independent of our minds, you (along with all of humanity) still have your own subjective perception of that reality, even when it comes to things that seem absolute like logic and math. So how do you know your perception is accurate?

Not sure if I'm clear, but my point is that if everything we perceive with our senses is subjective (which is what your OP seemed to be claiming, but I may be wrong), then why wouldn't logic itself also be subjective since we perceive it through those same senses?
Because by yourself attacking the objective reality, you're subsequently denying the truthfulness of your own claim. In other words, you don't care if you got it right, just as long as everyone had it all wrong. Yourself included.
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Posted 1/1/11

DomFortress wrote:
why wouldn't logic itself also be subjective since we perceive it through those same senses?


Because by yourself attacking the objective reality, you're subsequently denying the truthfulness of your own claim. In other words, you don't care if you got it right, just as long as everyone had it all wrong. Yourself included.

I don't get how that shows the objectivity of logic. Understand that I'm not making an assertion, but asking a question, which is: Assuming that all information we obtain through our physical senses (sight, hearing, etc) is subject to individual perception, thus making it subjective, isn't all human knowledge subjective by default? This includes anything we would normally consider to be objective, such as math and logic, since we only obtain knowledge of them through our senses.

I'm only asking this because the whole questioning one's own existence bit has been overdone, so I figure why not go a step further.

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Posted 1/10/11

Cuddlebuns wrote:


DomFortress wrote:
why wouldn't logic itself also be subjective since we perceive it through those same senses?


Because by yourself attacking the objective reality, you're subsequently denying the truthfulness of your own claim. In other words, you don't care if you got it right, just as long as everyone had it all wrong. Yourself included.


I don't get how that shows the objectivity of logic. Understand that I'm not making an assertion, but asking a question, which is: Assuming that all information we obtain through our physical senses (sight, hearing, etc) is subject to individual perception, thus making it subjective, isn't all human knowledge subjective by default? This includes anything we would normally consider to be objective, such as math and logic, since we only obtain knowledge of them through our senses.

I'm only asking this because the whole questioning one's own existence bit has been overdone, so I figure why not go a step further.



Well...Some philosophers would argue that logic and math is also subjective as well. I think that all Decartes believed in was a thinking self and God. Everything else he dismissed as unable to prove. So in that sense math and logic can also be subjective. Especially if you look at some 3rd world countries or nomads that have very little connection to the rest of the world.

They view certain things as they are because they may lack depth perception and experience with technology. A simple phone call maybe considered a miracle to them, magic even. They may beleive a light skinned person to be a ghost or spirit of some kind. They may see a TV and beleve the images in it to be real. I have seen one guy look out on a plain and believe the buffalo to be no bigger than his hand.

Logic would dictate that these things are the cause of depth perception and technology. Though they would argue for reality and magic.peace over war
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Posted 1/11/11
My theory is that if there was nothing to be perceived, then we wouldn't exist. Nothing to notice= No family, friends, enemies, no laughing, most of all no MEMORIES. Isn't everything just one big memory? You REMEMBER just reading that. Yesterday, last Monday, whatever, that's all just memory. I have memories, therefore I exist in that realm, which is in my mind. Therefore I must exist to no other means than to harbor those memories.
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Posted 1/19/11
Hi,I think we really are here because we all belive in god and it really gives us energy to survive in this cruel world only he is keeping the distance between the cruel and kind. All mankind is depend on him.


http://www.linella.dk/
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