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Mosque at ground zero
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28 / M / In your room stea...
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Posted 9/6/10 , edited 9/6/10
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50 / F / Toronto
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Posted 9/6/10 , edited 9/6/10
No not really,

Relevance?


What has the cost of the structure or the source of it's funding have to do with weather or not it should be built or not?

(Edit: And since you deleted your post I'll include my memory of your question - "Don't you wonder where he got the 100 million?" )

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28 / M / USA
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Posted 9/9/10
If we do, we are weak. If we don't, we are intolerant. We lose either way. We need to stop giving this issue so much media attention and make a decision. HLN and CNN are just fueling the Jihadists.
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Posted 9/9/10

openmindedatheist wrote:

If we do, we are weak. If we don't, we are intolerant. We lose either way. We need to stop giving this issue so much media attention and make a decision. HLN and CNN are just fueling the Jihadists.


No. some may portray you as weak. but that's not the same as being weak. There is strength is sticking to your oaths and your articles of principal even when it's inconvienient or unpopular.

Weather or not the owner should be allowed to build is a matter for your zoning laws. Not liking the idea. is a matter for public discourse. and perhaps your own statements.

For example there's nothing stopping you from building the WTC as a set of five towers, four smaller one and one slightly offset taller one and orientating this upthrust finger towards the cordoba building or mecca as you see fit.




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Posted 9/10/10 , edited 9/10/10
An interesting Email landed in my inbox today. This seems to be an appropriate place to share:



Subject: Fw: CLEAR AND SENSIBLE


I read about the Cordoba House established in Cordoba, Spain
many centuries ago after the Moors conquered the Christians.
A cathedral was converted into a mosque and named accordingly.
A reversal happened when the Moors were driven from Spain.
Google explains the history.

Subject: Superb Statement
This is the most clearly stated, sensible, and historically accurate
statement that I’ve read on this issue (and I’ve read a lot of them).

Statement on the Proposed “Cordoba House” Mosque near Ground Zero
Newt Gingrich

July 21, 2010 6pm
There should be no mosque near Ground Zero in New York so long as
there are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia. The time for
double standards that allow Islamists to behave aggressively toward us
while they demand our weakness and submission is over.
The proposed "Cordoba House" overlooking the World Trade Center site –
where a group of jihadists killed over 3000 Americans and destroyed
one of our most famous landmarks - is a test of the timidity,
passivity and historic ignorance of American elites. For example,
most of them don’t understand that “Cordoba House” is a deliberately
insulting term. It refers to Cordoba, Spain – the capital of Muslim
conquerors who symbolized their victory over the Christian Spaniards
by transforming a church there into the world’s third-largest mosque complex.
“Cordoba,” in Islamic symbolic terms, means Islamic rule in the West.
Today, some of the Mosque’s backers insist this term is being used to
"symbolize interfaith cooperation" when, in fact, every Islamist in
the world recognizes Cordoba as a symbol of Islamic conquest. It is a
sign of their contempt for Americans and their confidence in our
historic ignorance that they would deliberately insult us this way.
Those Islamists and their apologists who argue for "religious
toleration" are arrogantly dishonest. They ignore the fact that more
than 100 mosques already exist in New York City. Meanwhile, there are
no churches or synagogues in all of Saudi Arabia. In fact no Christian
or Jew can even enter Mecca. And they lecture us about tolerance.
If the people behind the Cordoba House were serious about religious
toleration, they would be imploring the Saudis, as fellow Muslims, to
immediately open up Mecca to all and immediately announce their
intention to allow non-Muslim houses of worship in the Kingdom. They
should be asked by the news media if they would be willing to lead
such a campaign.

We have not been able to rebuild the World Trade Center in nine years.
Now we are being told a 13 story, $100 million megamosque will be
built within a year overlooking the site of the most devastating
surprise attack in American history.
Finally where is the money coming from? The people behind the Cordoba
House refuse to reveal all their funding sources. America is experiencing an Islamist cultural-political offensive
designed to undermine and destroy our civilization. Sadly, too many of
our elites are the willing apologists for those who would destroy them if they could.
No mosque. No self deception. No surrender.
The time to take a stand is now - at this site on this issue.

If, after reading this, you agree with it, please pass it on to
others. This is the most clearly stated, sensible, and historically
accurate statement that I’ve read on this issue (and I’ve read a lot
of them).


(bold - mine)

By the way I don't agree with the statement at least not with it the actions it demands. Everything New Gingrich said might be true but that doesn't change what the principals that make the United States great (to me as a foreigner anyway) command you to do instead. Prove you're bigger than this BS. Let them build all the buildings and make all the statements they want. Unlike the alleged source of this building's funding and motivation, it's a free country.



Your certainly free to have the media ask hard questions and the emboldened above should be IMO asked. However, your principals are about your principals not about what other people do or don't do.


You're also free to make statements of your own.

For example you could rebuild the twin towers as the five towers. four small and the middle one upthrust.
You're also free to protest and remonstrate peaceably outside the structure. If your government Truly suspects this building has terrorist roots then I'm sure your government has the tools under the homeland security act to find out for sure.

So. again. No this building shouldn't be stopped by legislation. Yes freedom is worth it. Who knows maybe if you are loud enough and determined to get off your asses long enough often enough the builders will get the idea that this particular building is a bad idea. If you shine the light of truth on their motivations for building it and the source of there funding. Maybe you'll prove everything Newt Gingrich says.

In which case the building becomes a symbol of intolerance and arrogance and if known as such can hardly achieve it's stated purpose. there are over a 100 million American citizens in the USA. all it would take is one greenback each to match funding for a counter statement.

Assuming of course the Newt Gingrich is right.

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Posted 9/10/10
if you can have your churches and stuff built, why cant the mosque be built? how lame..
Posted 9/10/10

Sweet-Vampire21 wrote:

if you can have your churches and stuff built, why cant the mosque be built? how lame..
So you just called your own Muslim people being lame? How superficially shallow and victimizing you are.
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50 / F / Toronto
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Posted 9/10/10

Sweet-Vampire21 wrote:

if you can have your churches and stuff built, why cant the mosque be built? how lame..


Have you actually READ my posts? Also. No one has called you on it yet, and it's not often enforced but one sentence posts to ED are considered to be against the rules. The logic is that unless you have something substantial and rational to contribute to the debate then you shouldn't add anything.


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Posted 9/10/10

DomFortress wrote:


Sweet-Vampire21 wrote:

if you can have your churches and stuff built, why cant the mosque be built? how lame..
So you just called your own Muslim people being lame? How superficially shallow and victimizing you are.


no i wasnt talking about the Muslim people. i was saying how lame the people who are against the mosque being built are.
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50 / F / Toronto
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Posted 9/10/10

Sweet-Vampire21 wrote:

if you can have your churches and stuff built, why cant the mosque be built? how lame..


Okay so can I build a church in Medina or Mecca?



Posted 9/10/10 , edited 9/10/10

Sweet-Vampire21 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Sweet-Vampire21 wrote:

if you can have your churches and stuff built, why cant the mosque be built? how lame..
So you just called your own Muslim people being lame? How superficially shallow and victimizing you are.


no i wasnt talking about the Muslim people. i was saying how lame the people who are against the mosque being built are.
And those said people are the moderate Muslims, as I've mentioned in my post. So your argument is moot. Unless you wanna invoke the no true Scotsman logical fallacy.
Posted 9/11/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Sweet-Vampire21 wrote:

if you can have your churches and stuff built, why cant the mosque be built? how lame..


Okay so can I build a church in Medina or Mecca?





When there are synagogues and mosques to be found in the Vatican City.
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Posted 9/12/10
Hmmm well I came to a conclusion myself
It's the right of everyone to practice their religion and build the neccessery things for that right?
So buildings of worshipping cannot be banned or blocked from building.

However!
It's also everyones right to protest whatever they want, sooo let the protesters protest and let the religious people worship their deity :happy:

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26 / F / UAE
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Posted 9/12/10
ya people can build what ever they want to build

what is the problem with that
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50 / F / Toronto
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Posted 9/12/10

amersfoort wrote:

Hmmm well I came to a conclusion myself
It's the right of everyone to practice their religion and build the neccessery things for that right?
So buildings of worshipping cannot be banned or blocked from building.

However!
It's also everyones right to protest whatever they want, sooo let the protesters protest and let the religious people worship their deity :happy:



I think I said that about a page back. perhaps it was missed because I used more words.



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