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Peace, or Justice?
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Posted 10/11/10

amersfoort wrote:


KillerCupcakes wrote:


peace.
because fighting over a stupid argument.
gets nothing solved.




Marry me




xD
LOL


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Posted 11/14/10
justice is meaningless without peace and peace is meaningless without justice....
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Posted 11/14/10

amersfoort wrote:

This topic is mainly just about you, what would be your pick in a situation that forces you to choose between a act of peace, or a act out of Justice.

Personally I would go for peace, since I am completely against violence in any way besides sports.
Even if that means having the feeling of being a victim or anything like that.

Well before I continue to ramble on I will jut press the post new topic button.


If I were to be in a situation where I can choose one or the other, I would choose peace, because my sense of Justice would never be completely compatible with your sense of justice, as yours would never be completely compatible with the government's sense of justice-
but if it is for society, neither, a government that favors peace over justice would be completely ineffectual, as it is impossible to attain this without great tyranny, as is justice over peace would create only an unfeeling autocratic system based upon the principals of law- regardless of the cruelty.
Posted 11/19/10 , edited 11/19/10

longfenglim wrote:



If I were to be in a situation where I can choose one or the other, I would choose peace, because my sense of Justice would never be completely compatible with your sense of justice, as yours would never be completely compatible with the government's sense of justice-
but if it is for society, neither, a government that favors peace over justice would be completely ineffectual, as it is impossible to attain this without great tyranny, as is justice over peace would create only an unfeeling autocratic system based upon the principals of law- regardless of the cruelty.
I object to this view of a just and lawful government is only an unfeeling and bureaucratic system, when we can derive laws based on objective morality stemmed from pure categorical reasoning alone. In other words as long as everyone participating within the functioning of a government system, be it republic democratic or social democratic, can reason well with each other and among themselves under the principle of morality - both Eastern and Western philosophical moralities with a good measure of skepticism, not cynicism - it should be a system that can be self-regulated by the people who wish to have their passive rights(both positive and negative) be legally protected.

However, if there's any sort of government and its laws that's remotely unfeeling and autocratic in existence, then I can think of no other than two of just such states in practice: China and Iran, with their autocratic media censorship that's generating and forcing a biased and subjective opinion onto their people. Furthermore, I can think of no other reason for the two structurally different governments - China being a one-party elite while Iran being a republic - could share an essential similarity: their philosophies have a partiality towards authorities, not reasoning in the form of their people's consent based on informed choices.

Biased/subjective opinion does not equal to objective information, and that's the fact.
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Posted 12/1/10
this quote might be appropriate.

"No peace without justice, no justice without forgiveness"
Posted 12/1/10

ORB-01Akatsuki wrote:

this quote might be appropriate.

"No peace without justice, no justice without forgiveness"
As in how? This is "Extended Discussion", not random quote generator. If you wanna stake your claim you had better be ready to defend it with your intellect.
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Posted 12/1/10

DomFortress wrote:


ORB-01Akatsuki wrote:

this quote might be appropriate.

"No peace without justice, no justice without forgiveness"
As in how? This is "Extended Discussion", not random quote generator. If you wanna stake your claim you had better be ready to defend it with your intellect.


fair enough


Of course peace in the world is the be all goal for most sensible people out there, but I truly feel that if bad deeds especially done by those with power go unpunished peace can never be achieved. As for the last part of that quote just blindly fighting against someone even after the initial conflict has been long solved will just have the world fighting forever. a good example of that would be if Germany was still ostracized by the rest of the world for what happened in world war 2.

Posted 12/1/10

ORB-01Akatsuki wrote:



fair enough


Of course peace in the world is the be all goal for most sensible people out there, but I truly feel that if bad deeds especially done by those with power go unpunished peace can never be achieved. As for the last part of that quote just blindly fighting against someone even after the initial conflict has been long solved will just have the world fighting forever. a good example of that would be if Germany was still ostracized by the rest of the world for what happened in world war 2.
Then the truth is, the human world is still blindly fighting among each other in the form of economic competition, with the artificial concept of currency as their imaginary score card. All because of those who are in the position of power demand obedience, not social justice.
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Posted 12/1/10 , edited 12/1/10

DomFortress wrote:

Then the truth is, the human world is still blindly fighting among each other in the form of economic competition, with the artificial concept of currency as their imaginary score card..


Perhaps, but separate competing economies is something the world definitely would not be able to function without at this point in time. Personally though I feel that with technology like the internet the world is getting smaller and hopefully a little closer to each other. 20 years ago there wasn't much of a chance for us to be having a conversation like this and I definitely wouldn't of been able to meet a lot of the really cool people from around the world Ive had the chance to talk with.



DomFortress wrote:
All because of those who are in the position of power demand obedience, not social justice.


That's another thing I'm hopeful that can be somewhat mitigated with people having the chance to for a lack of a better way to say it "see another side of the world" by interacting with people from other cultures. Abusive powers can only stay that way if people are ignorant and complacent with them.



sorry my last post had a bit cut off edited it.
Posted 12/1/10

ORB-01Akatsuki wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Then the truth is, the human world is still blindly fighting among each other in the form of economic competition, with the artificial concept of currency as their imaginary score card..


Perhaps, but separate competing economies is something the world definitely would not be able to function without at this point in time. Personally though I feel that with technology like the internet the world is getting smaller and hopefully a little closer to each other. 20 years ago there wasn't much of a chance for us to be having a conversation like this and I definitely wouldn't of been able to meet a lot of the really cool people from around the world Ive had the chance to talk with.



DomFortress wrote:
All because of those who are in the position of power demand obedience, not social justice.


That's another thing I'm hopeful that can be somewhat mitigated with people having the chance to for a lack of a better way to say it "see another side of the world" by interacting with people from other cultures. Abusive powers can only stay that way if people are ignorant and complacent with them.
I beg to differ, and with good reasons. And then some. When needless competition is not economical.

Better yet, we need to recognize the human selflessness is in fact real.
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Posted 12/1/10
I probably worded my last post poorly, I definitely agree that things need to change for things to get better but before that starts to happen people need to get more of a sense for "what benefits the world" not "what benefits my individual country".
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Posted 12/2/10 , edited 12/2/10

amersfoort wrote:

This topic is mainly just about you, what would be your pick in a situation that forces you to choose between a act of peace, or a act out of Justice.

Personally I would go for peace, since I am completely against violence in any way besides sports.
Even if that means having the feeling of being a victim or anything like that.

Well before I continue to ramble on I will jut press the post new topic button.


Justice.

No justice, no peace. Know Justice, know peace. And for me, Justice isn't simply some arbitrary set of laws set by people in power. It's more things like equality, etc. If you have a set of people that have not gotten the justice that they feel that they deserve, they will bring the pain to every-fuckin'-body around them.
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Posted 12/12/10 , edited 12/12/10
i can think of several dif. scenarios 4 this question.

First, there is the less likely situation that whatever it is that forces you to choose between the two is not actually bothering you for example if an ugly person asks you if they are ugly are you going to peacefully lie and tell them no? or are you going to say yes and have them mad at you for a while? now I'm not exactly sure that classifies as justice, but i think its only fair that they know the truth so I would say it does. Who says justices has to be pretty? It is what is fair whether that means the cruelest revenge or not.

Now say some kid keeps beating you up ever day. If you don't do something they are probably not going to change. So with the big picture in mind i wouldn't think it would be more beneficial to society to just completely cow down. However with the thought of complete justice in mind I don't think the best thing to do would be to pay them back everything they have coming like turning them black and blue, even though you might feel they completely deserve it. after all "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" = just, but maybe have some mercy because i do believe people can change ....but if they still don't get it... thats another story.

For all you ppl talking about war: I don't think it is a matter of "who started it?" , "you have to defend yourself" or "stop it before something bad happens" I think people fail to take into consideration that we only know what our country tells us. They only know what their country tells them. How many people actually know what they are fighting for? If we are right then somebodies: wrong, in the dark, or brainwashed. Reguardless they think they are doing the right thing and so do we, and without further questioning of the others veiw we are killing each other.

For each case I think their has to be an amount of justice to keep any kind of peace but when you become equivalent to the enemy it has gone too far. I guess I am about equal likely to choose either one but you can be sure be there will be a whole lot of of debating/arguing before i stoop to justice level.
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Posted 12/24/10
I would definitely go fo peace because there is no need for violence in most occasions. :)
Posted 12/24/10

Angelicious3 wrote:

I would definitely go fo peace because there is no need for violence in most occasions.
How can you attain true peace? When you didn't bring a stop to unnecessary violence with justice.
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