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Is Europe turning against the Islam?
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55 / M / Atlanta GA
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Posted 9/13/10 , edited 9/13/10
Can some body show me a country that Muslims are peaceful? Well maybe Candida? Think this topic should be renamed as Islam is turning europe against itself
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26 / M / The Netherlands
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Posted 9/14/10
Indeed, a problem is that alot of immigrants, (not necceserely muslims) cause trouble, especially their youth.
When these trouble makers are not viewed as individuals but as a group, and a link is created to these trouble makers and their faith then yes people will fear that group and alot of what is related to that group.
Since this applys to the Islam this ofcourse causes a negative reaction, plus ofcourse alot of trouble in the middle east wich also works against the Islam.

It's weird but not all young trouble makers in my country are Muslim, infact a other group (anntillians, mostly Christians) are the most criminal group.

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50 / F / Toronto
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Posted 9/14/10

tarakelly wrote:

Can some body show me a country that Muslims are peaceful? Well maybe Candida? Think this topic should be renamed as Islam is turning europe against itself


Actually as far as I can tell they are reasonably peaceful in Canada. We're pretty open on our immigration policy all we really insist is that the violent shit stays at where it's at. Most immigrants seem to get it. At my local supermarket the Halal Meat section is right next to the Kosher Food section. I haven't seen even unkind words exchanged when I go shopping.

We did bust one incompetent terrorist cell, and there was that case with the Patriarch from a Muslim country strangling his daughter with his son's help, for disobedience. In a population of 30 million over all these years, that's not bad.


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55 / M / Atlanta GA
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Posted 9/14/10
Incompetent well that is generally case. I started to realize as long as the live over there and stay over there I do not care. But they made up front and personnel. other wise this would not have been an issue. It is not like down here we go out of are way to mess with people. We are fairly polite to each other.
Ronin
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Posted 9/14/10
99% of the people in Pakistan are Muslim and I'm pretty sure it's a relatively peaceful place. I say relatively since humans in general are not peaceful.
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50 / F / Toronto
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Posted 9/14/10 , edited 9/14/10

tarakelly wrote:

Incompetent well that is generally case. I started to realize as long as the live over there and stay over there I do not care. But they made up front and personnel. other wise this would not have been an issue. It is not like down here we go out of are way to mess with people. We are fairly polite to each other.


hmm not sure I agree. Granted Canadians had this rep of being SO polite they would apologise to you when you stepped on their foot.

Individually I've met as many ignorant and/or boorish Canadians as I have Americans. But then I live in our most cosmopolitan and populous city.

The you have to understand though is: America has been the Empire of the day, since the fall of the European ones post WWII. It has been 'in everyones faces' as a nation for a long time. Just ask Any Iranian who supported Shah and trained his secret police. Ask the people of any oil producing nation that's not at war with the US who THEY think controlls their government.
some of these assertions might reflect bias towards those who would make them... but saying that America had nothing to do with the world before these attacks and that they were completely... unprovoked... is in error. There have been things done abroad under the US flag that are 'in your face' and make enemies. Trust me on this.

Why do you think Americans abroad try to pass as Canadians?

(edit: by the way we laugh when you do that, you're SOOOO obvious. Most of you don't even know who Tim Horton is)

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31 / M / NW England
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Posted 9/14/10
It makes me angry, it really, really does.

Not Islam, not terrorism, not the wars, but the ignorance that infects almost all people on all sides of this brewing religious shitstorm. People forming well-entrenched opinions even though they haven't looked at both sides, the Chinese whispers that start in regards to a news story, and people's plain, straight-up refusal to listen to reason, regardless of the source. Also how easily people are swayed by the media. Has anyone else noticed how quickly our reason for invading Iraq changed from "Oh crap they've got WMD's" to "Liberating the Iraqi people"? And no one bats an eyelid, they just soak it up like a sponge, and prepare some more wild patriotism and blind faith in their government, with the image of the twin towers and London bombings burned into their minds.

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." - John Adams, 2nd US President.

Here in the north west of England, we have a fairly high percentage of muslim folk, have done since the 60's. We've had riots, demonstrations, random beatings and revenge attacks in the street (Of which I myself have been on the recieving end of a couple of times), yet this is nothing compared to what will come unless people start to form some balanced opinions. It's a prime case of ignorance meeting ignorance head on, with everyone else, Muslim and otherwise, in the middle just trying to bloody get on with their lives. We have the chav problem, predominantly whites, who attack people and property for no reason other than prejudice and that they can. I myself lost a very good friend to them, and needless to say these are the epitome of 'Ignorant whites' here.

I have quite a few muslim mates from both school and ones i've made since, and this is what people just don't understand. A lot of them are scared. Scared of the constant media barrage that tars them all with the same brush, scared of how people soak up what they see on TV, scared of the ignorance displayed by both a minority from their culture and some whites, and definately scared of what's coming next. As a result, very few from Britain's Muslim communities are willing to speak out, and this is a crying shame because that is precisely what we need right now: Normal British Muslims standing up and saying "Now hang on a minute, this tool who just blew himself up in no way represents the rest of us", and even if they did, people here are so wrapped up in their own misgivings and prejudice i'm not even sure they'd listen.

The best and most recent examples of ignorance at play on a grand scale are the New York mosque and Quran burning fiascos. There are still many, many people who actually think the plan was to build the mosque on top of the bloody rubble. There are also a lot of folk who firmly believe it's their right to burn the Quran, and don't understand why they're so upset about the prospect of it, and also don't see the ramifications of it. People have already bloody DIED because of it, and none have even been burned!

And at the last, not only is there the ignorance, the willful ignorance here, but there's also the inability to understand why we're being attacked by minority terrorist groups in the first place. You see it every day on forums both here on CR and on various other sites, people saying without a hint of doubt that invading a nation in response to a terrorist attack is justified.

Take the probable causes of the terrorism in the first place, the interference, the meddling, the butting our collective western noses into their business, extortion, gunboat diplomacy and the threat of it, exploitation, not really a small, insignificant list all told. It doesn't warrant killing innocent people over, but welcome to humanity; some of us are dicks. Take that to one side, just put it on the sideboard for a minute. Imagine if ten years ago a group of 20-30 Americans went to Dubai and bombed some religious buildings. Imagine it. Then imagine waking up one morning in your cosy little house in England or the US, looking out your window and seeing Saudi tanks rolling past your house.
Would you be pleased to see them? Would you care that they say they're there to eradicate the subversive cells of extremists and to free you from your oppressive government? Would you?
If you said yes, then you're either painfully naive or lying.

Add to that even more Chinese whispers, and what starts out as an accident turns into a NATO led massacre by the time the news has reached 10 villages away. Add in some ignorance and anger, anger at foreign troops on your streets, anger at western meddling in your affairs, anger that your uncle was accidentally killed by an airstrike. Yeah you're pretty pissed right now, so pissed in fact you take up an AK at the gentle urgings of an extremist Imam and join the 'resistance'. It's human nature, despite what some people may say, to want to defend your home, and this makes you extremely susceptible to persuasion and being coerced into doing things you otherwise wouldn't do.

No one is willing to try and see things from any perspective but their own, and this situation the world is being flung into now is only going to get worse. Afghanistan is unwinnable for the simple reason that we're fighting an endless army. For every accident, for every action, for every month that our troops are over there we simply push more and more impressionable young Muslims all round the world over the threshold into extremism, and contrary to popular belief this war will not make things better, it will only increase the likelihood that you or your children or your friends will be killed on day when you're out shopping by some pissed off, disillusioned young Muslim who was vulnerable to being 'turned'.

And it will be our own fault.

I don't care if you don't follow their religion.
I don't care if you don't understand it.
I don't care if you hate middle eastern bloody cooking or the clothes they wear.
You don't have to do anything other than calm the fuck down. Mohammed in your local gas station is not about to murder your children, he's just a dude trying to get on with his life, same as you. We can't help who we're born as, but we can change who we become. No matter your race, colour or creed, people are just people. We're good, bad, and most often, somewhere in between. People the world over need to grow some perspective or remove themselves from everyone elses affairs entirely, otherwise we're all going to find ourselves in a world of shit, far, far sooner than we think.
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55 / M / Atlanta GA
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Posted 9/14/10
Well being an American and understanding knowing political agreement have no value to these people. Why put up with there mess oil we have if the environmentalist would step aside. Annarw the show this mountain and this pristine land, but they do not show where the site is and will not admit it tundra. we can get oil way off the cost line 150 miles out from the coast. We can build nuke plants far better and much more safer. The Japanese with all the unstable ground have figured away to do this. Hey there something we can learn. from the japanese. Clean coal technology is has come a long way. All this talk of green energy but environmentalist expect industry to fix a problem when half the problem is them.------------------------------Why did mention all that oil we do not import it from the middle east. Maybe if our government would enforce law regulation gulf spill would never had happen. but government is incompetent and only reacts to a situation.many time there the blame. Why let people over here if they have little to no respect for the laws. I am calm and logical unlike your country it all read bending over to Islam. How far are you going to bend over (Lord Chamberlain) . I see he way Muslims treat blacks in my neighborhood at the local store ripping them off is not unusual If i walk in and buy something I count my change every time. But I have seen the intentionally short change black with little or no schooling. Heck I a prophet from god because i am related by Adam and Eve so I say Muhammad is and always was a false prophet prover other wise. You believe in something when the world was flat and the sun revolves around the earth and we were the center of the galaxy I do not who more Crazy Christan that think armageddon going to happen soon or Islam both belong in a rubber room.
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Posted 9/14/10

quintus_fontane wrote:

It makes me angry, it really, really does.

Not Islam, not terrorism, not the wars, but the ignorance that infects almost all people on all sides of this brewing religious shitstorm. People forming well-entrenched opinions even though they haven't looked at both sides, the Chinese whispers that start in regards to a news story, and people's plain, straight-up refusal to listen to reason, regardless of the source. Also how easily people are swayed by the media. Has anyone else noticed how quickly our reason for invading Iraq changed from "Oh crap they've got WMD's" to "Liberating the Iraqi people"? And no one bats an eyelid, they just soak it up like a sponge, and prepare some more wild patriotism and blind faith in their government, with the image of the twin towers and London bombings burned into their minds.

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." - John Adams, 2nd US President.

Here in the north west of England, we have a fairly high percentage of muslim folk, have done since the 60's. We've had riots, demonstrations, random beatings and revenge attacks in the street (Of which I myself have been on the recieving end of a couple of times), yet this is nothing compared to what will come unless people start to form some balanced opinions. It's a prime case of ignorance meeting ignorance head on, with everyone else, Muslim and otherwise, in the middle just trying to bloody get on with their lives. We have the chav problem, predominantly whites, who attack people and property for no reason other than prejudice and that they can. I myself lost a very good friend to them, and needless to say these are the epitome of 'Ignorant whites' here.

I have quite a few muslim mates from both school and ones i've made since, and this is what people just don't understand. A lot of them are scared. Scared of the constant media barrage that tars them all with the same brush, scared of how people soak up what they see on TV, scared of the ignorance displayed by both a minority from their culture and some whites, and definately scared of what's coming next. As a result, very few from Britain's Muslim communities are willing to speak out, and this is a crying shame because that is precisely what we need right now: Normal British Muslims standing up and saying "Now hang on a minute, this tool who just blew himself up in no way represents the rest of us", and even if they did, people here are so wrapped up in their own misgivings and prejudice i'm not even sure they'd listen.

The best and most recent examples of ignorance at play on a grand scale are the New York mosque and Quran burning fiascos. There are still many, many people who actually think the plan was to build the mosque on top of the bloody rubble. There are also a lot of folk who firmly believe it's their right to burn the Quran, and don't understand why they're so upset about the prospect of it, and also don't see the ramifications of it. People have already bloody DIED because of it, and none have even been burned!

And at the last, not only is there the ignorance, the willful ignorance here, but there's also the inability to understand why we're being attacked by minority terrorist groups in the first place. You see it every day on forums both here on CR and on various other sites, people saying without a hint of doubt that invading a nation in response to a terrorist attack is justified.

Take the probable causes of the terrorism in the first place, the interference, the meddling, the butting our collective western noses into their business, extortion, gunboat diplomacy and the threat of it, exploitation, not really a small, insignificant list all told. It doesn't warrant killing innocent people over, but welcome to humanity; some of us are dicks. Take that to one side, just put it on the sideboard for a minute. Imagine if ten years ago a group of 20-30 Americans went to Dubai and bombed some religious buildings. Imagine it. Then imagine waking up one morning in your cosy little house in England or the US, looking out your window and seeing Saudi tanks rolling past your house.
Would you be pleased to see them? Would you care that they say they're there to eradicate the subversive cells of extremists and to free you from your oppressive government? Would you?
If you said yes, then you're either painfully naive or lying.

Add to that even more Chinese whispers, and what starts out as an accident turns into a NATO led massacre by the time the news has reached 10 villages away. Add in some ignorance and anger, anger at foreign troops on your streets, anger at western meddling in your affairs, anger that your uncle was accidentally killed by an airstrike. Yeah you're pretty pissed right now, so pissed in fact you take up an AK at the gentle urgings of an extremist Imam and join the 'resistance'. It's human nature, despite what some people may say, to want to defend your home, and this makes you extremely susceptible to persuasion and being coerced into doing things you otherwise wouldn't do.

No one is willing to try and see things from any perspective but their own, and this situation the world is being flung into now is only going to get worse. Afghanistan is unwinnable for the simple reason that we're fighting an endless army. For every accident, for every action, for every month that our troops are over there we simply push more and more impressionable young Muslims all round the world over the threshold into extremism, and contrary to popular belief this war will not make things better, it will only increase the likelihood that you or your children or your friends will be killed on day when you're out shopping by some pissed off, disillusioned young Muslim who was vulnerable to being 'turned'.

And it will be our own fault.

I don't care if you don't follow their religion.
I don't care if you don't understand it.
I don't care if you hate middle eastern bloody cooking or the clothes they wear.
You don't have to do anything other than calm the fuck down. Mohammed in your local gas station is not about to murder your children, he's just a dude trying to get on with his life, same as you. We can't help who we're born as, but we can change who we become. No matter your race, colour or creed, people are just people. We're good, bad, and most often, somewhere in between. People the world over need to grow some perspective or remove themselves from everyone elses affairs entirely, otherwise we're all going to find ourselves in a world of shit, far, far sooner than we think.



Thank you very, very, very much for your post, I have been struggeling with such feelings as well but I have not been able to express myself like that, again thank you very much.
Posted 9/14/10 , edited 9/14/10

quintus_fontane wrote:

It makes me angry, it really, really does.

Not Islam, not terrorism, not the wars, but the ignorance that infects almost all people on all sides of this brewing religious shitstorm. People forming well-entrenched opinions even though they haven't looked at both sides, the Chinese whispers that start in regards to a news story, and people's plain, straight-up refusal to listen to reason, regardless of the source. Also how easily people are swayed by the media. Has anyone else noticed how quickly our reason for invading Iraq changed from "Oh crap they've got WMD's" to "Liberating the Iraqi people"? And no one bats an eyelid, they just soak it up like a sponge, and prepare some more wild patriotism and blind faith in their government, with the image of the twin towers and London bombings burned into their minds.

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." - John Adams, 2nd US President.

Here in the north west of England, we have a fairly high percentage of muslim folk, have done since the 60's. We've had riots, demonstrations, random beatings and revenge attacks in the street (Of which I myself have been on the recieving end of a couple of times), yet this is nothing compared to what will come unless people start to form some balanced opinions. It's a prime case of ignorance meeting ignorance head on, with everyone else, Muslim and otherwise, in the middle just trying to bloody get on with their lives. We have the chav problem, predominantly whites, who attack people and property for no reason other than prejudice and that they can. I myself lost a very good friend to them, and needless to say these are the epitome of 'Ignorant whites' here.

I have quite a few muslim mates from both school and ones i've made since, and this is what people just don't understand. A lot of them are scared. Scared of the constant media barrage that tars them all with the same brush, scared of how people soak up what they see on TV, scared of the ignorance displayed by both a minority from their culture and some whites, and definately scared of what's coming next. As a result, very few from Britain's Muslim communities are willing to speak out, and this is a crying shame because that is precisely what we need right now: Normal British Muslims standing up and saying "Now hang on a minute, this tool who just blew himself up in no way represents the rest of us", and even if they did, people here are so wrapped up in their own misgivings and prejudice i'm not even sure they'd listen.

The best and most recent examples of ignorance at play on a grand scale are the New York mosque and Quran burning fiascos. There are still many, many people who actually think the plan was to build the mosque on top of the bloody rubble. There are also a lot of folk who firmly believe it's their right to burn the Quran, and don't understand why they're so upset about the prospect of it, and also don't see the ramifications of it. People have already bloody DIED because of it, and none have even been burned!

And at the last, not only is there the ignorance, the willful ignorance here, but there's also the inability to understand why we're being attacked by minority terrorist groups in the first place. You see it every day on forums both here on CR and on various other sites, people saying without a hint of doubt that invading a nation in response to a terrorist attack is justified.

Take the probable causes of the terrorism in the first place, the interference, the meddling, the butting our collective western noses into their business, extortion, gunboat diplomacy and the threat of it, exploitation, not really a small, insignificant list all told. It doesn't warrant killing innocent people over, but welcome to humanity; some of us are dicks. Take that to one side, just put it on the sideboard for a minute. Imagine if ten years ago a group of 20-30 Americans went to Dubai and bombed some religious buildings. Imagine it. Then imagine waking up one morning in your cosy little house in England or the US, looking out your window and seeing Saudi tanks rolling past your house.
Would you be pleased to see them? Would you care that they say they're there to eradicate the subversive cells of extremists and to free you from your oppressive government? Would you?
If you said yes, then you're either painfully naive or lying.

Add to that even more Chinese whispers, and what starts out as an accident turns into a NATO led massacre by the time the news has reached 10 villages away. Add in some ignorance and anger, anger at foreign troops on your streets, anger at western meddling in your affairs, anger that your uncle was accidentally killed by an airstrike. Yeah you're pretty pissed right now, so pissed in fact you take up an AK at the gentle urgings of an extremist Imam and join the 'resistance'. It's human nature, despite what some people may say, to want to defend your home, and this makes you extremely susceptible to persuasion and being coerced into doing things you otherwise wouldn't do.

No one is willing to try and see things from any perspective but their own, and this situation the world is being flung into now is only going to get worse. Afghanistan is unwinnable for the simple reason that we're fighting an endless army. For every accident, for every action, for every month that our troops are over there we simply push more and more impressionable young Muslims all round the world over the threshold into extremism, and contrary to popular belief this war will not make things better, it will only increase the likelihood that you or your children or your friends will be killed on day when you're out shopping by some pissed off, disillusioned young Muslim who was vulnerable to being 'turned'.

And it will be our own fault.

I don't care if you don't follow their religion.
I don't care if you don't understand it.
I don't care if you hate middle eastern bloody cooking or the clothes they wear.
You don't have to do anything other than calm the fuck down. Mohammed in your local gas station is not about to murder your children, he's just a dude trying to get on with his life, same as you. We can't help who we're born as, but we can change who we become. No matter your race, colour or creed, people are just people. We're good, bad, and most often, somewhere in between. People the world over need to grow some perspective or remove themselves from everyone elses affairs entirely, otherwise we're all going to find ourselves in a world of shit, far, far sooner than we think.
This introspective viewpoint of yours is much welcomed, IMHO. And you're quite right to say that unwarranted fear is the cause of this rampant ignorance coming from both sides of the argument. And yet, while we all know that media sensationalism is the medium of this fear, it's hardly the source of all that we fear, no. For I would argue that most of us only fear the unknown, and our ignorance was only the result of us justifying our lack of understanding and the subsequent refusal/denial of the facts. Because like it or not, we find safety and trust in whatever that we perceived as predictable, so whenever we normalized fear as an everyday occurrence with the help of the mass medias, then the irony is that we entrenched ourselves and our actions with our fear because it's the social norms. For we humans are social animals, thus we automatically and intuitively make our decisions based on our subconscious and emotional selves, which is biologically subjective to the manipulation of social mechanism.

This cultural mirror will demonstrate how my theory works.

EDIT: As an afterthought(been getting quite of those as of late), what I've theorized is the sociological design for a vicious cycle. And it can be the start of just about any kind of social movement, that will result in the change of the societal status quote. In other words, this function is itself neither good or bad, because good things such as the civil rights movement, the gay marriage movement, and the environmentalist, sustainability and conservation movements are all the changes-in-progress, that's making our global society as a whole a much better place. And to do that this wanton self-denial about the fact of reality has got to stop. For true courage is the realization that failure is aways an option, when nature itself consists of randomness, uncertainty, complexity, and chaos. But a fear of failure is an excuse for us to hold onto unrealistic expectations, obligations, traditions, and subsequently obstructing our opportunity for real change.
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Posted 9/14/10 , edited 9/14/10

quintus_fontane wrote:

It makes me angry, it really, really does.

Not Islam, not terrorism, not the wars, but the ignorance that infects almost all people on all sides of this brewing religious shitstorm. People forming well-entrenched opinions even though they haven't looked at both sides, the Chinese whispers that start in regards to a news story, and people's plain, straight-up refusal to listen to reason, regardless of the source. Also how easily people are swayed by the media. Has anyone else noticed how quickly our reason for invading Iraq changed from "Oh crap they've got WMD's" to "Liberating the Iraqi people"? And no one bats an eyelid, they just soak it up like a sponge, and prepare some more wild patriotism and blind faith in their government, with the image of the twin towers and London bombings burned into their minds.

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." - John Adams, 2nd US President.

Here in the north west of England, we have a fairly high percentage of muslim folk, have done since the 60's. We've had riots, demonstrations, random beatings and revenge attacks in the street (Of which I myself have been on the recieving end of a couple of times), yet this is nothing compared to what will come unless people start to form some balanced opinions. It's a prime case of ignorance meeting ignorance head on, with everyone else, Muslim and otherwise, in the middle just trying to bloody get on with their lives. We have the chav problem, predominantly whites, who attack people and property for no reason other than prejudice and that they can. I myself lost a very good friend to them, and needless to say these are the epitome of 'Ignorant whites' here.

I have quite a few muslim mates from both school and ones i've made since, and this is what people just don't understand. A lot of them are scared. Scared of the constant media barrage that tars them all with the same brush, scared of how people soak up what they see on TV, scared of the ignorance displayed by both a minority from their culture and some whites, and definately scared of what's coming next. As a result, very few from Britain's Muslim communities are willing to speak out, and this is a crying shame because that is precisely what we need right now: Normal British Muslims standing up and saying "Now hang on a minute, this tool who just blew himself up in no way represents the rest of us", and even if they did, people here are so wrapped up in their own misgivings and prejudice i'm not even sure they'd listen.

The best and most recent examples of ignorance at play on a grand scale are the New York mosque and Quran burning fiascos. There are still many, many people who actually think the plan was to build the mosque on top of the bloody rubble. There are also a lot of folk who firmly believe it's their right to burn the Quran, and don't understand why they're so upset about the prospect of it, and also don't see the ramifications of it. People have already bloody DIED because of it, and none have even been burned!

And at the last, not only is there the ignorance, the willful ignorance here, but there's also the inability to understand why we're being attacked by minority terrorist groups in the first place. You see it every day on forums both here on CR and on various other sites, people saying without a hint of doubt that invading a nation in response to a terrorist attack is justified.

Take the probable causes of the terrorism in the first place, the interference, the meddling, the butting our collective western noses into their business, extortion, gunboat diplomacy and the threat of it, exploitation, not really a small, insignificant list all told. It doesn't warrant killing innocent people over, but welcome to humanity; some of us are dicks. Take that to one side, just put it on the sideboard for a minute. Imagine if ten years ago a group of 20-30 Americans went to Dubai and bombed some religious buildings. Imagine it. Then imagine waking up one morning in your cosy little house in England or the US, looking out your window and seeing Saudi tanks rolling past your house.
Would you be pleased to see them? Would you care that they say they're there to eradicate the subversive cells of extremists and to free you from your oppressive government? Would you?
If you said yes, then you're either painfully naive or lying.

Add to that even more Chinese whispers, and what starts out as an accident turns into a NATO led massacre by the time the news has reached 10 villages away. Add in some ignorance and anger, anger at foreign troops on your streets, anger at western meddling in your affairs, anger that your uncle was accidentally killed by an airstrike. Yeah you're pretty pissed right now, so pissed in fact you take up an AK at the gentle urgings of an extremist Imam and join the 'resistance'. It's human nature, despite what some people may say, to want to defend your home, and this makes you extremely susceptible to persuasion and being coerced into doing things you otherwise wouldn't do.

No one is willing to try and see things from any perspective but their own, and this situation the world is being flung into now is only going to get worse. Afghanistan is unwinnable for the simple reason that we're fighting an endless army. For every accident, for every action, for every month that our troops are over there we simply push more and more impressionable young Muslims all round the world over the threshold into extremism, and contrary to popular belief this war will not make things better, it will only increase the likelihood that you or your children or your friends will be killed on day when you're out shopping by some pissed off, disillusioned young Muslim who was vulnerable to being 'turned'.

And it will be our own fault.

I don't care if you don't follow their religion.
I don't care if you don't understand it.
I don't care if you hate middle eastern bloody cooking or the clothes they wear.
You don't have to do anything other than calm the fuck down. Mohammed in your local gas station is not about to murder your children, he's just a dude trying to get on with his life, same as you. We can't help who we're born as, but we can change who we become. No matter your race, colour or creed, people are just people. We're good, bad, and most often, somewhere in between. People the world over need to grow some perspective or remove themselves from everyone elses affairs entirely, otherwise we're all going to find ourselves in a world of shit, far, far sooner than we think.

Wow, although the CR forum generally have the same old people, sometimes someone new comes in and blows everyone away. Thumbs up to your post for your heartfelt response.

Regarding this war in Afghanistan, its regretful but either action, whether leaving or staying will be uneventful. There are worries about Pakistan as well.
PS: What do you mean when you type in Chinese whispers?
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Posted 9/14/10
You can be all philosophical over this, But the action speaks volumes Pakistan and India are always having turf wars and Muslim are the catalysts. maybe you should look at the Philippians and Africa closed minded philosopher.
Posted 9/14/10

Northboundsnow wrote:


Wow, although the CR forum generally have the same old people, sometimes someone new comes in and blows everyone away. Thumbs up to your post for your heartfelt response.

Regarding this war in Afghanistan, its regretful but either action, whether leaving or staying will be uneventful. There are worries about Pakistan as well.
PS: What do you mean when you type in Chinese whispers?

The Chinese Whisper Phenomenon

The phenomenon known as chinese whispers stems from the game of the same name (see below). When passing information from one party to another (usually verbally) the facts and theme often become distorted. A common example of this is seen in rumors and neighbourhood gossip. Likewise, information passed by email is often altered, as is information that is overheard by people. Safety warnings can turn into scares, jokes into facts and dramas into crisis'.

The phenomenon itself can be defined as information that reaches it's destination, significantly altered in content, facts and theme to the way it was originally presented.(citation)
An example for this media phenomenon would be this news report about the stoning of an Iranian woman. There's a dispute about how the true identity of the woman in the photo was in fact not the real victim:

The Times of London published on August 28 a photo of a woman without a headscarf that it said was Mohammadi-Ashtiani, however on September 3 it said the attribution of the photo, which it received from one of her lawyers that has fled Iran, was incorrect.

The photo "... is certainly not that of my mother," said Sajjad.(citation)
The idea behind media sensationalism is to associate the readers with as much personal relevancy as possible. So the use of a fake photo was to associate sympathy with a woman's face of familiarity.
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Posted 9/14/10

quintus_fontane wrote:



Welcome to Human Nature 101.
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Posted 9/14/10
When I hear a story on the news I will wait until everything shake out of the story. Taking American journalist as non fiction reporters that just not happen. Yellow journalism been around before the birth of this county and will be around after its death. Here one that always has me laughing Train hits car. The train on a track 90 % of the time it the car divers fault. Journalist understand David and Goliath sell papers Not David did not pay his rent and he being evicted. It going to be the big Mean apartment complex kick David out. ----------------------------------------- Biased in the newspaper like reading soap opera digest. A front page story that wrong will get and retraction In the part of the part that nobody reads. Every thing you read or see has far more information that not printed. if something really gets my attention I will check it against other sources. The media can continue to make the muslim look like victims but is it the truth. You also need to know how owns the paper your reading. Dis information is a very good ticket to mislead the people and so many take the bait.---------------- The written word carries even less weight now then 30 years ago. the action of a few and people cheering them on say far more than any journalist can make up so sort of excuse. Here I go again if muslim are relay peaceful they should condemn and even stop this behavior. This needs to stop and Islam is at fault for there own alienation in Europe
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