Could the Pope be charged?
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Posted 9/19/10 , edited 9/19/10
Prosecute the Pope for Felony Crimes under Rico Act witch was created to target groups like the mob, and other Organized groups for the cover ups of crimes.

No this is not a attack on a religion... But a attack on the actions of the higher ups in the church and the Pope him self..
The church is a group just like the mob, and being that the church does cover ups for their clergymen, moving them around or hiding them under the orders of the Pope... After they do crimes like molestation and rape witch is a felony.
Why should the clergymen be above the law. An why does the Pope have the power to undermine the laws put in place to protect the people of the civilization?

(again for some people who going to rant about the topic being a religious thread, get a clue I am not targeting your religion, but targeting group leaders who fallow the criteria of crime bosses, who should be charged for their actions.
Unless you really believe that some people should be above the law.)
Posted 9/19/10
I think the consequence and implementation of labeling stupidity as being evil, of legally discriminating stupid people's right for them being stupid. Is that we'll have to start considering the nature of human stupidity as something genuine, or is it socialized into the general public via social processes. I mean why should the religious figures of authority be the only targets? When the fact is it's because of the blind faiths from the religious individuals, that the stupidity was allowed in the first place.
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Posted 9/19/10 , edited 9/19/10
Well I think you're being a little overly dramatic here.

I'm not going to blindly leap to the Vatican's defence, but the Pope himself has hardly been getting jiggy with a choir boy behind the altar. He's just left but a large focus of his trip here to the UK was about this whole issue with various clergymen being, if you'll forgive my language, sick fucks.
Yes I realise this would largely have been down to public outcry, i'm not that naive, but you have to question just how much he's trying to cover up when we all know about it and he's publicly supporting anti-abuse groups. Various child abusing clergymen have been imprisoned, so it's not like he's swooping down in his pope-mobile, rescuing them from police and taking them back to the vatican for cheese and biscuits. Nor is it that all clergymen are abusers. Contrary to public, frothing opinion, it's a very, very small minority within the clergy who are of that ilk, and they are being removed, albeit slowly.

Again, i'm not trying to say that the sun shines out of his arse, or any religious/political/military leader's arse for that matter, but all we hear about this subject is extremely biased, and anything good the catholic church and other churches do is enormously downplayed. No one likes good news! Unless it's the 'awww' story at the end of the 6pm news about Chuckles the hamster who can do backflips and play the fucking banjo.
"And in other news, yes the world is about to burn in a storm of intolerance and misinformation, but look at the talented critter! Go hamster go!"

I'm all for open flows of information, for honesty and morals and all that good stuff, but if we start down the road of punishing leaders for the crimes of their subordinates, no matter the details, where does it stop?

Does it mean various generals, nay even the president of the US himself are tried for the latest wonder story from Afghanistan, the "US Army Death Squad"?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8011815/US-military-in-Afghanistan-uncovers-sadistic-death-squad-in-ranks.html
No, of course not, because that would just be fucking ridiculous.
Though think of everything our governments and militaries cover up! An army is an organisation in a sense. The soldiers weren't ordered to kill civilians obviously, but then again I doubt that the various Catholic abusers were given divine mandate to rape kids either.

I could go on but there's no need. I think all we need to do is make sure that the criminals who do sick stuff like that get theirs, prevent it happening again as much as we can, and carry on. Humans are flawed, there have always been and will always be sick bastards who do sick stuff to others for no reason. That is no reason at all to ignore it, quite the opposite, but there's so much bloody hate around right now, and this whole "Who can we blame?!" society we've got going on is pathetic.
Posted 9/19/10
The only defense I can give for The Vatican is that I've heard some good HEAVY METAL come from there.

Getting on topic, no matter what the intent of the organization, there will be a seedy underbelly of corruption that contradicts its real purpose. Catholicism is far and away the most intense form of Christianity, since being happy is treated so harshly. The Pope is certainly not exempt from being punished for misdeeds. Whatever he does, he will see the consequences, just like everyone else.
Posted 12/17/10
As a child I remember being scared by a particular priest, he was short, bad tempered and always smelled of whiskey
and cigar smoke..

He also cursed like a sailor...

Back to topic, in a nutshell, No I don't believe the Pope will be slammed.....but he might be forced into resignation ..

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Posted 12/19/10
The pope would not be able to be prosecuted under the Rico act, simply because the Rico act is a US law, it would really hard to prove in any way that he actively participated on a cover up during one of his visits. If he agreed to help with the cover up, it was done from the vatican, which is outside of US soil, which means US laws do not apply there.
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Posted 12/20/10 , edited 12/20/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

Prosecute the Pope for Felony Crimes under Rico Act witch was created to target groups like the mob, and other Organized groups for the cover ups of crimes.

No this is not a attack on a religion... But a attack on the actions of the higher ups in the church and the Pope him self..
The church is a group just like the mob, and being that the church does cover ups for their clergymen, moving them around or hiding them under the orders of the Pope... After they do crimes like molestation and rape witch is a felony.
Why should the clergymen be above the law. An why does the Pope have the power to undermine the laws put in place to protect the people of the civilization?

(again for some people who going to rant about the topic being a religious thread, get a clue I am not targeting your religion, but targeting group leaders who fallow the criteria of crime bosses, who should be charged for their actions.
Unless you really believe that some people should be above the law.)


Because attacking the Pope seems popular in these era, I believe that he should at least be defended by someone, even if that person is me, a foolish and unlearned man with ignorance to match dear Tom Fool-
1. he has done more than his predesessor to bring up the sex abuse scandals
2. he lightens the churches teaching on Condoms.
3. he prove more tolerant than most of the higher ups of the church, meeting with Progressive Catholic Fr. Hans Kung, with Mahomtan leaders, with other Christian denominations, &c.
4. he does make an effort to correct the Churches past wrongs.
5. the Catholic Church is not alone in child molestation, and it is unfair to charaterise the Church as a hovel of paedophiles, that said, not all priest are paedophiles, and not all peadophile priests are Catholic. While what they did was wrong, and the cover-up was wrong, but, last I heard, the Church is setting up a tribunal against the priests accused of Peadophilia.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100053450/mass-rape-by-paedophile-catholic-priests-is-a-myth-says-secular-humanist-magazine/

Know, though, that I am no fan of the Pope, nor do I condone his actions, but I consider myself a bigger enemy against one-sided bashing of a particular person or insitution without giving to careful consideration of their view.
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Posted 12/23/10 , edited 12/23/10
Victims of clerical sex abuse have reacted furiously to Pope Benedict's claim yesterday that paedophilia wasn't considered an “absolute evil” as recently as the 1970s.

In his traditional Christmas address yesterday to cardinals and officials working in Rome, Pope Benedict XVI also claimed that child pornography was increasingly considered “normal” by society.

“In the 1970s, paedophilia was theorised as something fully in conformity with man and even with children,” the Pope said.

“It was maintained — even within the realm of Catholic theology — that there is no such thing as evil in itself or good in itself. There is only a ‘better than' and a ‘worse than'. Nothing is good or bad in itself.”

The Pope said abuse revelations in 2010 reached “an unimaginable dimension” which brought “humiliation” on the Church.

Asking how abuse exploded within the Church, the Pontiff called on senior clerics “to repair as much as possible the injustices that occurred” and to help victims heal through a better presentation of the Christian message.

“We cannot remain silent about the context of these times in which these events have come to light,” he said, citing the growth of child pornography “that seems in some way to be considered more and more normal by society” he said.

But outraged Dublin victim Andrew Madden last night insisted that child abuse was not considered normal in the company he kept.

Mr Madden accused the Pope of not knowing that child pornography was the viewing of images of children being sexually abused, and should be named as such.

He said: “That is not normal. I don't know what company the Pope has been keeping for the past 50 years.”

Pope Benedict also said sex tourism in the Third World was “threatening an entire generation”.

Angry abuse victims in America last night said that while some Church officials have blamed the liberalism of the 1960s for the Church's sex abuse scandals and cover-up catastrophes, Pope Benedict had come up with a new theory of blaming the 1970s.

“Catholics should be embarrassed to hear their Pope talk again and again about abuse while doing little or nothing to stop it and to mischaracterise this heinous crisis,” said Barbara Blaine, the head of SNAP, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests,

“It is fundamentally disturbing to watch a brilliant man so conveniently misdiagnose a horrific scandal,” she added.

“The Pope insists on talking about a vague ‘broader context' he can't control, while ignoring the clear ‘broader context' he can influence — the long-standing and unhealthy culture of a rigid, secretive, all-male Church hierarchy fixated on self-preservation at all costs. This is the ‘context’ that matters.”

The latest controversy comes as the German magazine Der Spiegel continues to investigate the Pope's role in allowing a known paedophile priest to work with children in the early 1980s.


Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/popersquos-child-porn-normal-claim-sparks-outrage-among-victims-15035449.html#ixzz18wQIWjIH


Christopher Hitchens: Arrest The Pope!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBody5RPo2o
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Posted 1/11/11

quintus_fontane wrote:

Well I think you're being a little overly dramatic here.

I'm not going to blindly leap to the Vatican's defence, but the Pope himself has hardly been getting jiggy with a choir boy behind the altar. He's just left but a large focus of his trip here to the UK was about this whole issue with various clergymen being, if you'll forgive my language, sick fucks.
Yes I realise this would largely have been down to public outcry, i'm not that naive, but you have to question just how much he's trying to cover up when we all know about it and he's publicly supporting anti-abuse groups. Various child abusing clergymen have been imprisoned, so it's not like he's swooping down in his pope-mobile, rescuing them from police and taking them back to the vatican for cheese and biscuits. Nor is it that all clergymen are abusers. Contrary to public, frothing opinion, it's a very, very small minority within the clergy who are of that ilk, and they are being removed, albeit slowly.

Again, i'm not trying to say that the sun shines out of his arse, or any religious/political/military leader's arse for that matter, but all we hear about this subject is extremely biased, and anything good the catholic church and other churches do is enormously downplayed. No one likes good news! Unless it's the 'awww' story at the end of the 6pm news about Chuckles the hamster who can do backflips and play the fucking banjo.
"And in other news, yes the world is about to burn in a storm of intolerance and misinformation, but look at the talented critter! Go hamster go!"

I'm all for open flows of information, for honesty and morals and all that good stuff, but if we start down the road of punishing leaders for the crimes of their subordinates, no matter the details, where does it stop?

Does it mean various generals, nay even the president of the US himself are tried for the latest wonder story from Afghanistan, the "US Army Death Squad"?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8011815/US-military-in-Afghanistan-uncovers-sadistic-death-squad-in-ranks.html
No, of course not, because that would just be fucking ridiculous.
Though think of everything our governments and militaries cover up! An army is an organisation in a sense. The soldiers weren't ordered to kill civilians obviously, but then again I doubt that the various Catholic abusers were given divine mandate to rape kids either.

I could go on but there's no need. I think all we need to do is make sure that the criminals who do sick stuff like that get theirs, prevent it happening again as much as we can, and carry on. Humans are flawed, there have always been and will always be sick bastards who do sick stuff to others for no reason. That is no reason at all to ignore it, quite the opposite, but there's so much bloody hate around right now, and this whole "Who can we blame?!" society we've got going on is pathetic.


I concur.

I give less than a shit about the pope's authority and so on and so forth, or his role or whatever else, but this sensationalist bollocks everywhere is pissing me off. As it has been pointed out in the post quoted above, paedophilia, while it enjoys much attention, is not great of an issue when looking at the numbers. It's just that people are too myopic to see their own ignorance, they are, often purposefully, oblivious of the fact that the Vatican or really, the Catholic clergy anywhere is not a single entity and its members act in accordance with their own minds and are not puppets. The Vatican would be stupid to encourage acts of paedophilia and being able to survive and continue to cheat people out of their wealth for almost two thousand years is hardly a mark of stupidity. Simply put, the Vatican has nothing to gain from its clergy going around the country banging kids.

On a slightly different matter. We've been hearing accusations of all sorts targeted at the pope. Well, pardon me, but where's the evidence? Even if the pope used to be or is a nazi, and while there is no evidence but let us assume for the sake of argument that the pope is a paedophile, unless sufficient evidence of criminal acts is brought, people should just stop with the melodrama. Even if the pope is a crossdressing, buggery-enthusiast with tremendous sexual aggression and a penchant for bestiality, so long as there is no evidence available that would implicate him as a criminal, the presumption of innocence should surely apply. I mean, yeah, we have speculated the pope guilty. But let's say I speculate that the member making a post following mine is a petty thief who just stole a car stereo. That doesn't count for shit does it?
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