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Is the United States the real terrorist in the world?
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Posted 9/23/10

Allhailodin wrote:


Don't remember that, but ok.



Look up the war of 1812.

To be fair, it was before Canada was a country. so the 'we' in there is a bit of credit stealing from the brits. It was force of Canadian Residents who kept you busy in Detroit and other places north of our border with you. while a British Regiment, routed a premature victory celebration ate said dinner, Stole the president's silverware and burned the pink marble building you were originally going to call "The Presidential Palace"

After White washing the burn marks off of it you started calling it : The White House.

What? is all you know about 1812 the Johnny Horton song?

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Posted 9/23/10
Well some time I wished the You and the British would help use out again cleaning out DC of the rats in the House and Senate wold be nice. We might even find real people tat put the public first and them selves second. That would be a clean of fresh air.
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Posted 9/24/10
i agree with every thing you said popcornpuffs
and i agree with daninami


papagolfwhiskey
if he was going to trade Oil in Euros
so what ??!!
it is his oil and he is free to do with it what ever he want ..
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Posted 9/24/10

neko-cat wrote:

i agree with every thing you said popcornpuffs
and i agree with daninami


papagolfwhiskey
if he was going to trade Oil in Euros
so what ??!!
it is his oil and he is free to do with it what ever he want ..


Sigh, another superficial argument.

Whats with this Miss South Carolina response?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WALIARHHLII&feature=related

PS: It be nice if you could elaborate more on why you agree to popcornpuffs or daninami or even explain on why papagolwhiskey said that Saddam Hussein wishes to export to Euro and how that relates to this topic.
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Posted 9/24/10
yes i agree that America is the one thats making the world up side down nd all wars around the world 4 no reasons nd they hurt people all around the world nd toke stuff that isnt theirs
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Posted 9/24/10 , edited 9/25/10

neko-cat wrote:

i agree with every thing you said popcornpuffs
and i agree with daninami


papagolfwhiskey
if he was going to trade Oil in Euros
so what ??!!
it is his oil and he is free to do with it what ever he want ..

I never said the oil wasn't his nor that he wasn't free to sell it for whatever currency he desired... you missed my point.

Okay a little bit of History and Economics 101. Pay attention kiddies this stuff affects YOU.

Long ago, Money was precious metals stamped with various leaders heads and set in fixed sizes. It's value would fluctuate slightly depending on the reputation a particular government had for mixing in non-precious metals. But basically, a gold or silver coin had the value of that weight of gold or silver, This is why money changers and merchants had scales on hand in their offices and shops and why famous highwaymen could reputedly guess the value of the contents of a purse by hefting it in their hands.

When governments originally established paper currency, the money was 'backed' by precious metals. This meant that the paper money in your hand was supposedly redeemable for an amount of precious metal held by the government. IE the British couldn't print any more paper money (Pound Sterling) than they had Sterling Silver in their vaults. OR the Number of US dollars in circulation was limited by the amount of gold in Fort Knox. Many countries have since abandoned these standards in a fashion similar to the US. It is the US story that I'm going to concentrate on.

During the 1930's one of the steps that President Roosevelt took to bring his country out of the depression was to abandon the gold standard and instead print money backed by Treasury Bills or T-bills. T-bills are DEBT. if you buy a T-bill from the US treasury you are buying a promise from the US government to pay you back what you spent plus interest.

Okay: this is the REALLY important part. There can be no more US Dollars in circulation than there are T-bills issued. When a given T-bill comes due. The US government has to pay IN US DOLLARS the full amount of the T-bill PLUS INTEREST. However large or small the American Government's Taxes are, What they collect is less than ALL the US Dollars in circulation which in turn have become inflated (reduced in value) and it is with this pool, Much smaller than the whole, that they have to pay a debt equal to the whole plus interest. The only way to beat this game is to find other sources of hard value and return to a standard backed by that. OR to issue even more T-bills. But if you Issue enough T-bills to pay your debts TODAY. Your debt TOMORROW is that much bigger. Successive American Governments have been putting off "tomorrow" for nearly 80 years.

If you or I were to attempt to do this with the banks and our personal cheques it would be called Cheque Kiting and prosecuted as fraud.

If your Broker fell into the trap of doing this he'd post fantastic returns until one day he couldn't get enough suscribers at the bottom to fund all the people he appeared to make wealthy at the top and his empire would collapse under charges of him running another type of fraud called a 'ponzi scheme' (you may be familiar with this concept if you bother to listen to the news)

One of the things that keeps the US Dollar from doing the same is a Monopoly on Oil transactions. If you want to Buy or Sell Oil on the international market you have to do it in US Dollars. This keeps a large sum of printed money out of circulation in the general economy it also tenuously links the USD to a precious hard commodity (Oil). This plus faith is what keeps the US dollar afloat. If people were to lose faith in the dollar, or if someone like say.. China.. got really picky about taking on new US debts. OR if all that oil trade money came rushing back into the economy because people were trading oil in whatever currency they liked. The level of damage to the US economy would be on a scale people who are ignorant of History would not understand.

Germany in the 1930's is famous for people needing wheelbarrow full of paper money to buy a loaf of bread. Zimbabwe right now, beats Germany hands down for runaway inflation and economic meltdown. Zimbabwe is a distant second to post world war II Hungary. The Hungarian mint actually had to print at one point a bill which represented 10 to the 23rd power (a 1 with 23 zeroes behind it ) of their then equivalent of a dollar.

That is what Saddam Hussein was threatening to do to the US by loudly planning to trade Oil in Euros.
That is why, I believe, The US did indeed engage in terrorism. They made an example of Hussein for any oil trading nation that was thinking of also trading in anything other than US dollars. It's ugly. But everyone in the US (and probably Canada, as well as a not insignificant part of Europe) who is not starving and who still has their home might do well to thank George Bush for it. Or at least reconsider some of their assumptions about war and economics. Or, better yet, figure out a solution to the debt bomb that IS eventually going to drop on us all.


(edited for a grammar, emphasis and a bit of clarification/expansion)
(Further edit just because: Don't you love how everyone on EXTENDED DEBATE is a fricken' scholar and expert conversationalist when it's superficial one liners. but when you actually try to take questions seriously and put some thought into them all you can hear is crickets chirping?)
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Posted 9/24/10

Northboundsnow wrote:


neko-cat wrote:

i agree with every thing you said popcornpuffs
and i agree with daninami


papagolfwhiskey
if he was going to trade Oil in Euros
so what ??!!
it is his oil and he is free to do with it what ever he want ..


Sigh, another superficial argument.

Whats with this Miss South Carolina response?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WALIARHHLII&feature=related

PS: It be nice if you could elaborate more on why you agree to popcornpuffs or daninami or even explain on why papagolwhiskey said that Saddam Hussein wishes to export to Euro and how that relates to this topic.


See my post immediately above.


Posted 9/24/10 , edited 9/24/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


neko-cat wrote:

i agree with every thing you said popcornpuffs
and i agree with daninami


papagolfwhiskey
if he was going to trade Oil in Euros
so what ??!!
it is his oil and he is free to do with it what ever he want ..

I never said it wasn't his nor that he wasn't free to do so... you missed my point.

Okay a little bit of History and Economics 101. Pay attention kiddies this stuff affects YOU.

Long ago, Money was precious metals stamped with various leaders heads and set in fixed sizes. It's value would fluctuate slightly depending on the reputation a particular government had for mixing in non-precious metals. But basically, a gold or silver coin had the value of that weight of gold or silver, This is why money changers and merchants had scales on hand in their offices and shops and why famous highwaymen could reputedly guess the value of the contents of a purse by hefting in their hands.

When governments originally established paper currency, the money was 'backed' by precious metals. This meant that the paper money in your hand was supposedly redeemable for an amount of precious metal held by the government. IE the British couldn't print any more paper money (Pound Sterling) than they had Sterling Silver in their vaults. OR the Number of USD in circulation was limited by the amount of gold in Fort Knox. Many countries have since abandoned these standards in a fashion similar to the US. It is the US story that I'm going to concentrate on.

During the 1930's one of the steps that President Roosevelt took to bring his country out of the depression was to abandon the gold standard and instead print money back by Treasury Bills or T-Bills. T Bills are DEBT. if you buy a T-bill from the US treasury you are buying a promise from the US government to pay you back what you spent plus interest.

Okay: this is the REALLY important part. There can be no more US Dollars in circulation than there are T-bills issued. When a given T-bill comes due. The US government has to pay IN US DOLLARS the full amount of the T-bill PLUS INTEREST. However large or small the American Government's Taxes are, What they collect is less than ALL the US Dollars in circulation which in turn have become inflated (reduced in value) and it is with this pool, Much smaller than the whole, that they have to pay a debt equal to the whole plus interest. The only way to beat this game is to find other sources of hard value and return to a standard backed by that. OR to issue even more T-bills. But if you Issue enough T-bills to pay your debts TODAY. Your debt TOMORROW is that much bigger.


If you or I were to attempt to do this with the banks and our personal cheques it would be called Cheque Kiting and prosecuted as fraud.
If your Broker fell into the trap of doing this he'd post fantastic returns until one day he couldn't get enough suscribers at the bottom to fund all the people he appeared to make wealthy at the top and his empire would collapse under charges of him running a 'ponzi scheme'

One of the things that keeps the US Dollar from doing the same is a Monopoly on Oil transactions. If you want to Buy or Sell Oil on the international market you have to do it in US Dollars. This keeps a large sum of printed money out of circulation in the general economy it also tenuously links the USD to a precious hard commodity (Oil). This plus faith is what keeps the US dollar afloat. If people were to lose faith in the dollar, or if someone like say.. China.. got really picky about taking on new US debts. OR if all that oil trade money came rushing back into the economy because people were trading oil in whatever currency they liked. The level of damage to the US economy would be on a scale people who are ignorant of History would not understand.

Germany in the 1930's is famous for people needing wheelbarrow full of paper money to buy a loaf of bread. Zimbabwe right now, beats Germany hands down for runaway inflation and economic meltdown. Zimbabwe is a distant second to post world war II Hungary. The Hungarian mint actually had to print at one point a bill which represented 10 to the 23rd power (a 1 with 23 zeroes behind it ) of their then equivalent of a dollar.

That is what Saddam Hussein was threatening to do to the US by loudly planning to trade Oil in Euros.
That that is why, I think, The US did indeed engage in terrorism, and make an example of Hussein for any oil trading nation that was thinking of doing the same. It's ugly. But everyone in the US who is not starving and who still has their home might do well to thank George Bush for it. Or at least reconsider some of their assumptions about economics a figure out a solution to the debt bomb that IS eventually going to drop on us all.
So that's when the US, and subsequently the rest of the world, started acting like credit companies while printing funny moneys. When world currency is depended on a future of uncertainty, it's worthless as it's unrealistic. Think of it as playing GTA with both God Mode and Infinite Money codes on; the whole game became pointless, but it sure makes killing a lot easier.

Also, unlike some people with a mechanical sense on economy, I personally see human economics as something with an organic characteristic. As in whenever possible to bend the rules, people will cheat however capable. All this talk about fiscal responsibility became meaningless, when it's the people who are creating their own debts with their own spending. I mean how can you reduce a negative with more negative? When the world's human population will reach to 9 billions by 2050 with its current rate of growth/debt, the math in order to halt that debt is directly equal to zero population growth and sustainable living with less or renewable resources, aka the happy planet index of one Costa Rica. Whereas war on humanity can be seen as a vicious cycle of cannibalism; diminishing the human populace by directly attacking human health and happiness, while increasing waste on finite resources.
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Posted 9/24/10

DomFortress wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


neko-cat wrote:

i agree with every thing you said popcornpuffs
and i agree with daninami


papagolfwhiskey
if he was going to trade Oil in Euros
so what ??!!
it is his oil and he is free to do with it what ever he want ..

I never said it wasn't his nor that he wasn't free to do so... you missed my point.

Okay a little bit of History and Economics 101. Pay attention kiddies this stuff affects YOU.

Long ago, Money was precious metals stamped with various leaders heads and set in fixed sizes. It's value would fluctuate slightly depending on the reputation a particular government had for mixing in non-precious metals. But basically, a gold or silver coin had the value of that weight of gold or silver, This is why money changers and merchants had scales on hand in their offices and shops and why famous highwaymen could reputedly guess the value of the contents of a purse by hefting in their hands.

When governments originally established paper currency, the money was 'backed' by precious metals. This meant that the paper money in your hand was supposedly redeemable for an amount of precious metal held by the government. IE the British couldn't print any more paper money (Pound Sterling) than they had Sterling Silver in their vaults. OR the Number of USD in circulation was limited by the amount of gold in Fort Knox. Many countries have since abandoned these standards in a fashion similar to the US. It is the US story that I'm going to concentrate on.

During the 1930's one of the steps that President Roosevelt took to bring his country out of the depression was to abandon the gold standard and instead print money back by Treasury Bills or T-Bills. T Bills are DEBT. if you buy a T-bill from the US treasury you are buying a promise from the US government to pay you back what you spent plus interest.

Okay: this is the REALLY important part. There can be no more US Dollars in circulation than there are T-bills issued. When a given T-bill comes due. The US government has to pay IN US DOLLARS the full amount of the T-bill PLUS INTEREST. However large or small the American Government's Taxes are, What they collect is less than ALL the US Dollars in circulation which in turn have become inflated (reduced in value) and it is with this pool, Much smaller than the whole, that they have to pay a debt equal to the whole plus interest. The only way to beat this game is to find other sources of hard value and return to a standard backed by that. OR to issue even more T-bills. But if you Issue enough T-bills to pay your debts TODAY. Your debt TOMORROW is that much bigger.


If you or I were to attempt to do this with the banks and our personal cheques it would be called Cheque Kiting and prosecuted as fraud.
If your Broker fell into the trap of doing this he'd post fantastic returns until one day he couldn't get enough suscribers at the bottom to fund all the people he appeared to make wealthy at the top and his empire would collapse under charges of him running a 'ponzi scheme'

One of the things that keeps the US Dollar from doing the same is a Monopoly on Oil transactions. If you want to Buy or Sell Oil on the international market you have to do it in US Dollars. This keeps a large sum of printed money out of circulation in the general economy it also tenuously links the USD to a precious hard commodity (Oil). This plus faith is what keeps the US dollar afloat. If people were to lose faith in the dollar, or if someone like say.. China.. got really picky about taking on new US debts. OR if all that oil trade money came rushing back into the economy because people were trading oil in whatever currency they liked. The level of damage to the US economy would be on a scale people who are ignorant of History would not understand.

Germany in the 1930's is famous for people needing wheelbarrow full of paper money to buy a loaf of bread. Zimbabwe right now, beats Germany hands down for runaway inflation and economic meltdown. Zimbabwe is a distant second to post world war II Hungary. The Hungarian mint actually had to print at one point a bill which represented 10 to the 23rd power (a 1 with 23 zeroes behind it ) of their then equivalent of a dollar.

That is what Saddam Hussein was threatening to do to the US by loudly planning to trade Oil in Euros.
That that is why, I think, The US did indeed engage in terrorism, and make an example of Hussein for any oil trading nation that was thinking of doing the same. It's ugly. But everyone in the US who is not starving and who still has their home might do well to thank George Bush for it. Or at least reconsider some of their assumptions about economics a figure out a solution to the debt bomb that IS eventually going to drop on us all.
So that's when the US, and subsequently the rest of the world, started acting like credit companies while printing funny moneys. When world currency is depended on a future of uncertainty, it's worthless as it's unrealistic. Think of it as playing GTO with both God Mode and Infinite Money codes on; the whole game became pointless, but it sure makes killing a lot easier.

Also, unlike some people with a mechanical sense on economy, I personally see human economics as something with an organic characteristic. As in whenever possible to bend the rules, people will cheat however capable. All this talk about fiscal responsibility became meaningless, when it's the people who are creating their own debts with their own spending. I mean how can you reduce a negative with more negative? When the world's human population will reach to 9 billions by 2050 with its current rate of growth/debt, the math in order to halt that debt is directly equal to zero population growth and sustainable living with less or renewable resources, aka the happy planet index of one Costa Rica. Whereas war on humanity can be seen as a vicious cycle of cannibalism; diminishing the human populace by directly attacking human health and happiness, while increasing waste on finite resources.


Lol there are already too many people and not enough resources.
Posted 9/25/10


The U.S. needs to get its edge back and take resources by force. That's the only way to get things done, sometimes.
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Posted 9/25/10

Northerner wrote:



The U.S. needs to get its edge back and take resources by force. That's the only way to get things done, sometimes.


nuclear proliferation for the win.
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Posted 9/25/10 , edited 9/26/10
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Posted 9/26/10

tarakelly wrote:

Dam that was well said, And maybe you might understand my anger at DC not the President but House and Senate.


What was well said? Nuclear proliferation for the win? (that's the post immediately above yours)



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Posted 9/26/10 , edited 9/26/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

hey the USA needs oil why don't we just take it from our neighbors north and south Heck we could even annex Canada as two or may be three state. On second though you have the frogs there.


I dunno if Canadia has much Oil but they have tons of Natural Gas, which can power cars and powerplants, and heat homes just like oil


I recall that the last time you tried, you had to rename the Presidential Palace the White House, Because of the white wash you had to put over the burn marks. Don't bother to thank us for saving your presidents from having to live in a faggy pink marble 'palace' we're used to having our favours ignored...But I advise you not to get so avaricious that you forget either.


Well pag right now they'd steamroll right over us. Canada's defense policy is basically to buddy up with whoever the current superpower in the world is right now and that so happens to be conveniently south of us. If the US decided to invade Canada, we'd be fucked unless foreign aid got involved.
Yes it'd be the worse idea in history of mankind, and it'd get the US blown to bits, but I'm just saying if they decided to attack just for the sake of attacking then we'd be screwed.
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Posted 9/26/10

zombehs wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

hey the USA needs oil why don't we just take it from our neighbors north and south Heck we could even annex Canada as two or may be three state. On second though you have the frogs there.


I dunno if Canadia has much Oil but they have tons of Natural Gas, which can power cars and powerplants, and heat homes just like oil


I recall that the last time you tried, you had to rename the Presidential Palace the White House, Because of the white wash you had to put over the burn marks. Don't bother to thank us for saving your presidents from having to live in a faggy pink marble 'palace' we're used to having our favours ignored...But I advise you not to get so avaricious that you forget either.


Well pag right now they'd steamroll right over us. Canada's defense policy is basically to buddy up with whoever the current superpower in the world is right now and that so happens to be conveniently south of us. If the US decided to invade Canada, we'd be fucked unless foreign aid got involved.
Yes it'd be the worse idea in history of mankind, and it'd get the US blown to bits, but I'm just saying if they decided to attack just for the sake of attacking then we'd be screwed.


Great. way to inspire them to keep their avaricious hands to themselves. thanks for coming out. I volunteer you for the frontlines if it comes to that.
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