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Is the United States the real terrorist in the world?
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54 / F / Atlanta GA
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Posted 9/29/10
This is funny since the words exit strategy did not get coined until the first conflict with Iraq In th press that is.
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Posted 9/29/10

DomFortress wrote:
Gee, that pretty much sounded to me like state level institutionalization of hazing, a well known form of bullying in open public among groups. It must had done wonders by branding yourself into a role of a victim back then. I mean whatever happened to the matter-of-fact levelheadedness of "increase group survival rate by learning how to function as an unit" professionalism? Or that just doesn't turn people into bullies, but real Canadian soldiers who follow a strict code of arms at all time.


Seriously, you missed the point of the post. A private soldier in basic, Is best advised to keep silent and strive to pull his or her weight, It's the best way to actually hear the lessons that lead to the sort of Canadian soldier you describe. It's also a good way to avoid the BS that also accompanies a lot of military behaviour. There is little room for non-conformity in basic training. I also guarentee that if you were in training to be a Canadian soldier and you were dragging your trenchmates down through poor descisions or a bad attitude, they WOULD find ways of pulling you to the curb and telling you to get with the program or get out. Dismissing Tara's remarks as institutionalized hazing just makes you sound like a granola hugging, tree eating, theorist.


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Posted 9/29/10

DomFortress wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

So you pretty much survived the bullying, while you also gained the skills and experience on how to bully others as a profession. Gee I wonder why.[/sarcasm]


Again you miss several points. She had the spine in an uncompromising hierarchy to tell someone higher on the ladder to get stuffed and make it stick. She was smart enough to understand that there's no room in a unit that may take casualties for irreplaceable specialists. Something some American military types at a much higher paygrade don't seem to realize. And the best you can do is call her a bully? I call bullshit.


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Posted 9/29/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Dom, what the hell are you talking about. Have you had any military experience? I doubt it from your posts.


'I have the Military experience.. Am I to talk about it? If so I have nothing good to say. I was in a position to hear much of the dirty dealings of are military and government. Can not say more than that on the subject.. But lets say I do not trust the military, and most of are shady government, all do to my experience. '

Military SP.. My job protect / Guard the higher ranking officers of the Air Force... (job entails never repeating what I hear.)


So from your experience, Tara's posts on basic training mark her as a bully, a survivor of institutionalized bullying who only learned how to bully in basic training? Yes or No?



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Posted 9/29/10

DomFortress wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

That's not the message I took from her posts at all. It's also clear from your posts, as much as I'd like to agree with anything that praises our military, that you've never earned your dog tags nor seriously studied the art and science of leadership in war and combat. Right now, all you are doing is shooting your mouth off in a way that proves your ignorance to those that have.
You don't prolong war without an exit strategy, aka an overall objective. That came straight from the Art of War itself, when it sees war only as an extension of diplomacy, a mean to an end. A battle of wits always take priority before a battle of arms, when irrational guts feeling caused by fear will only get your men killed as needless death. Those who couldn't understand this are no different than the North Koreans under a military regime.


Sun Tzu's little pamphlet of Haiku or whatever kind of verses they are, is an interesting read and as a general manual it's full of useful sound bytes that can make sense of more specific rules. Trying to claim reading that little book of verses makes you a military expert is like trying to say you can challenge the Iron Chef after reading a 'cookbook' with no named ingredients and no units of measure.



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Posted 9/29/10
dont care if they are real terrorist
as long as they're powerful....
and rich,,,,,
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Posted 9/29/10

animeaddict0 wrote:

dont care if they are real terrorist
as long as they're powerful....
and rich,,,,,


Wow USA right or wrong correct? If any other country who commits terror would you have a problem with that?

Rich? Lol you mean as in rich in debt because the only way wwe can fund our empire is borrowing money from other nations or debasing our currency as our Fed keeps printing money. If you believe our glorious country will last long as more and more people our out of work, jobs being outsourced, and increasing debt which both republicans and democrats contribute to, somehow America will remain number one in its power then you are sadly mistaken. If more Americans think like this then I can see why our situation never changes.
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Posted 9/29/10
------- In both case the lieutenants were removed from being a batter officers one was put in charge of the motor pool the other one I do not know what happen. But in any case my military carer was over with my PTSD from my past came back with a vengeance. I asked booth my top fisher and the Chief warrant officer W-4, that held a PHD in the field to be revealed of section chief. They understood and gave me light duty for the last two month I was in. The PTSD was not even understood by the military, at that point in time but both understood what I was experiencing. I got out with a honorable discharge.------------------------------------So for all you people that think I am a war monger I can put life on the line of stupid stuff but putting subordinate life on the line for stupid stuff is goes against my nature and cause great pain to me.
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Posted 9/29/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Dom, what the hell are you talking about. Have you had any military experience? I doubt it from your posts.


'I have the Military experience.. Am I to talk about it? If so I have nothing good to say. I was in a position to hear much of the dirty dealings of are military and government. Can not say more than that on the subject.. But lets say I do not trust the military, and most of are shady government, all do to my experience. '

Military SP.. My job protect / Guard the higher ranking officers of the Air Force... (job entails never repeating what I hear.)


So from your experience, Tara's posts on basic training mark her as a bully, a survivor of institutionalized bullying who only learned how to bully in basic training? Yes or No?





Basic training Is a form of Brain washing, Using Cult devices like Sleep deprivation, Braking down of a person personality in order to create a mindless tool that do as it is order to do.

To the military the basic training is a device used to create zombie solders who do what their told with no back talk..

From my experience non the less.. Maby you see it another way.
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Posted 9/29/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:



Basic training Is a form of Brain washing, Using Cult devices like Sleep deprivation, Braking down of a person personality in order to create a mindless tool that do as it is order to do.

To the military the basic training is a device used to create zombie solders who do what their told with no back talk..

From my experience non the less.. Maby you see it another way.


So are Dom's accusations leveled at Tarakelly over her comments about basic, true? yes or no?


I partially see it another way.

I disagree with the 'mindless tool'. A mindless tool cannot function in the fluid and dangerous environment that is the modern battlefield. Sleep deprivation, Pushing people to function on limited nutrition, during hardship and beyond what they THOUGHT were their limits of endurance and willpower can be construed as part of brainwashing. And certainly an army whose private soldiers question every order and chose which ones they obey at a whim will not be a very successful one.

The other side of it. Is that they are training to survive an environment where the other guy is trying to KILL them. The enemy is not going to offer coffee breaks, hypothermia relief, or truces to guarantee a good night's sleep. soldiers need to know and have practice functioning in less than ideal conditions. Combat is a cooperative endeavor. Even against a group of more skilled and physically fit opponents who fight as individuals, a team that can communicate, coordinate and has a clear chain of command will mop the floor. Perhaps techniques that you saw as creating a mindless group think. Were actually intended to build a team that could make intelligent coordinated and complex responses to a single command.

Posted 9/29/10 , edited 9/29/10

tarakelly wrote:

This is funny since the words exit strategy did not get coined until the first conflict with Iraq In th press that is.
No it's not, for this explains why there are those in the Western society who are morally corrupted. When moral objectivism isn't taught in the public sphere.


papagolfwhiskey wrote:



Seriously, you missed the point of the post. A private soldier in basic, Is best advised to keep silent and strive to pull his or her weight, It's the best way to actually hear the lessons that lead to the sort of Canadian soldier you describe. It's also a good way to avoid the BS that also accompanies a lot of military behaviour. There is little room for non-conformity in basic training. I also guarentee that if you were in training to be a Canadian soldier and you were dragging your trenchmates down through poor descisions or a bad attitude, they WOULD find ways of pulling you to the curb and telling you to get with the program or get out. Dismissing Tara's remarks as institutionalized hazing just makes you sound like a granola hugging, tree eating, theorist.

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


tarakelly wrote:

So you pretty much survived the bullying, while you also gained the skills and experience on how to bully others as a profession. Gee I wonder why.[/sarcasm]


Again you miss several points. She had the spine in an uncompromising hierarchy to tell someone higher on the ladder to get stuffed and make it stick. She was smart enough to understand that there's no room in a unit that may take casualties for irreplaceable specialists. Something some American military types at a much higher paygrade don't seem to realize. And the best you can do is call her a bully? I call bullshit.
So can you see the self-contradiction through "the looking glass self"? She was to perform just like an attack drone in basic training just like everyone else, yet she was placed in a position that made her responsible of the lives of others with her commands. Not only that, it was a command given to her by her superiors, with reasoning that's beyond her own comprehension. And yet:

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


DomFortress wrote:



Sun Tzu's little pamphlet of Haiku or whatever kind of verses they are, is an interesting read and as a general manual it's full of useful sound bytes that can make sense of more specific rules. Trying to claim reading that little book of verses makes you a military expert is like trying to say you can challenge the Iron Chef after reading a 'cookbook' with no named ingredients and no units of measure.
You belittled that very reasoning, just like how she belittled herself for whatever that was claimed to be of national security. However:

tarakelly wrote:

------- In both case the lieutenants were removed from being a batter officers one was put in charge of the motor pool the other one I do not know what happen. But in any case my military carer was over with my PTSD from my past came back with a vengeance. I asked booth my top fisher and the Chief warrant officer W-4, that held a PHD in the field to be revealed of section chief. They understood and gave me light duty for the last two month I was in. The PTSD was not even understood by the military, at that point in time but both understood what I was experiencing. I got out with a honorable discharge.------------------------------------So for all you people that think I am a war monger I can put life on the line of stupid stuff but putting subordinate life on the line for stupid stuff is goes against my nature and cause great pain to me.
In the end she was a washed-up, her PTSD was so serious that she's having problem with her own memories. She entered the US military with an unrealistic expectation about the life of military service, just like how you couldn't see why I didn't voluntarily join the Canadian armed forces. Because I know how objective morally wrong war will always be, not cooking.


papagolfwhiskey wrote:



So are Dom's accusations leveled at Tarakelly over her comments about basic, true? yes or no?


I partially see it another way.

I disagree with the 'mindless tool'. A mindless tool cannot function in the fluid and dangerous environment that is the modern battlefield. Sleep deprivation, Pushing people to function on limited nutrition, during hardship and beyond what they THOUGHT were their limits of endurance and willpower can be construed as part of brainwashing. And certainly an army whose private soldiers question every order and chose which ones they obey at a whim will not be a very successful one.

The other side of it. Is that they are training to survive an environment where the other guy is trying to KILL them. The enemy is not going to offer coffee breaks, hypothermia relief, or truces to guarantee a good night's sleep. soldiers need to know and have practice functioning in less than ideal conditions. Combat is a cooperative endeavor. Even against a group of more skilled and physically fit opponents who fight as individuals, a team that can communicate, coordinate and has a clear chain of command will mop the floor. Perhaps techniques that you saw as creating a mindless group think. Were actually intended to build a team that could make intelligent coordinated and complex responses to a single command.
And is that the reality of a terrorist attack? No, it is not. When you can't see a suicide bomber until it's too late, because you and everyone else around you are the target of an indiscriminate attack. This is real terrorism, not playing Counter-Strike.
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Dom seriously, I'm begging you to stop attacking Tarakelly, myself or any other soldier when you don't have experience or study on the subject.

Really, I'm asking you to do something I have never ever seen you do in the years I've known you. Admit a mistake and/or apologise.

I didn't ask for this one you called me a thief and a liar when the subject was intellectual property rights and I argued that copyright holders were bringing some of their woes on themselves by being dicks.

I didn't ask you to apologise to anyone when I tried to get you to privately cool your jets and stop antagonizing people with intemporate language and aggressive responses.

I am ASKING, BEGGING you now to not make war on me and other soldiers on this subject. Please listen. We will both be much happier.
Posted 9/29/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Dom seriously, I'm begging you to stop attacking Tarakelly, myself or any other soldier when you don't have experience or study on the subject.

Really, I'm asking you to do something I have never ever seen you do in the years I've known you. Admit a mistake and/or apologise.

I didn't ask for this one you called me a thief and a liar when the subject was intellectual property rights and I argued that copyright holders were bringing some of their woes on themselves by being dicks.

I didn't ask you to apologise to anyone when I tried to get you to privately cool your jets and stop antagonizing people with intemporate language and aggressive responses.

I am ASKING, BEGGING you now to not make war on me and other soldiers on this subject. Please listen. We will both be much happier.
While she's defending the very same institution that caused her PTSD? You're not helping.
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Posted 9/29/10
It's obvious you don't read her posts. The PTSD comes from her childhood.

Last Chance... say something I can at least pretend to myself is you accepting a little humility and attempting a little reconciliation.

Posted 9/29/10 , edited 9/29/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

It's obvious you don't read her posts. The PTSD comes from her childhood.

Last Chance... say something I can at least pretend to myself is you accepting a little humility and attempting a little reconciliation.
And it sure came back because of her military experience, so your point is? Or should I remind you that after WW2, how the US military hijacked psychology from its original purpose of advancing the human psyche, into the study of PTSD.

So make your threat of final automaton, but as long as you don't recognize the real cause of Tara's suffering, you are not helping.
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