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Liberalism
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Posted 11/14/10 , edited 11/15/10

longfenglim wrote:

One-So you are for taxes under 15%- running the country doesn't come cheap, with war and everything going on, or are you saying you're against this war? Don't tell me you are, Oh my god, you are infected with Liberalism/Authoritarianism/Fascism.

Likewise, at fifteen percent, the goverment will have to cut many public services, just to insure the payroll of the Politicians, you're not saying that you want to cut public services, do you? But, apperantly, any public service is government intervention, when everyone knows that everything should be cared for by those we know we can't trust, Big Businesses- after all, they are doing a marvellous job exporting American Jobs and neglecting the health of those who still work for them in America.


Cutting public services is fine, were going to have to do it anyway with all the debt the dems racked up. Can't afford public services anymore lol. Besides high taxes chase businesses and jobs out of the country, Just look at NJ, they decided to implement a millionaires tax, and as a result of this poor decision, so many businesses and wealthy people fled the state that the state lost 70 billion in revenue, more than 5 times what the tax would have brought in, the state lost so much money that it had to make drastic cuts to education and public services. High taxes do this on a national scale, businesses and wealthy fee the country, last time I checked all the jobs in this country are created by the wealthy so chasing them out is a bad thing. Plus they create jobs when their taxes are low and kill them when their taxes are high, Regan lowered taxes to 20% and 8 million jobs were created in this country, Bush tax cuts created 1-4 million(different people will give different answers so it depends on who you ask), of which 3(2.9 - 3.1) million have been lost under Obama. If you want to create jobs you lower taxes its common sense. Jobs = Good.

And businesses export jobs because taxes are too high and regulations are too extreme, ask any business owner in the country and he will tell you it is impossible to operate a business in this country but its easy in a country like china who wants the businesses there.

And the government is even less your friend than big business is.


Two- the Consitution is for the American Government, not its people- the government insures our right to free speech on our own land, if a foriegner decides to come here to speak about how much he hates his old country, that's his right, and if he goes back home, we are no longer responsible for him. The law against Cruel or Unusual punishment is only applicable to our government- our government cannot torture people. Also, torture doesn't work, torture a man long enough and he'll tell you black is white and two plus two equal five.


Water boarding is very effective against people who come from desert lands like them, it invokes a primitive core fear, We got a ton of intel from them through water boarding, it works just fine, but because you won't let us get intelligence from them we can not longer find out about terror attacks being plotted or top leaders and people will die, so congratulations people will die as a result of your actions. You killed them, Brute force is the only thing animals understand. You have to show them force or it will never end. Weakness is not an option. but I guess you'd rather we stick our head in the sand like an ostrich and just let them kill us.

Besides you still haven't come up with an alt to extract intelligence from them. So I'm waiting. If you cannot think up a way to extract intelligence then you have no business killing an already effective method that works great.

Our government can't torture those who have constitional rights, but our government is free to torture those who do not.

And its not the government's job to protect your rights, its your duty to protect your own right and your own land, that is why the forefathers gave us guns. To protect our rights and land from an overstepping(big) government and to be able to form militias very quickly when invaded.


Also, Moslems are just as any other group, they have their irrational and their rational, only the irrational get the most screen time.


What rational muslims, no such thing exists.


Three- yes, those slave-whippers, fighting for America's right not to get taxed to pay for a war on their behalf and then setting up a government almost completely similar to back home in Britain, only without a monarch. Yes, great people, they are.


The greatest who ever lives, they created the greatest country in the world, and if it wasn't for them, you would have no rights or freedoms because we would still be a part of England.


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:



Forefathers were the greatest people who ever lived, they created the greatest country in the world, unrilvaled to this day.


(emphasis mine)

Given the speed with which you claim ignorance when the topic drifts beyond your borders, I call bullshit. That parochial assertion is as much a faith based statement as anything any holy book thumping Muslim or Christian has ever said on this forum.




America was the greatest country in the world before it was brutally murdered. Some would still call it the greatest country on earth. But the forefathers did create the greatest country in the world, which it was for over 200 years. A country like our has not been created since. No country is as free as ours was, is to some extent.

So yes, America even dead is still the greatest country in the world.
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Posted 11/14/10 , edited 11/14/10

Allhailodin wrote:



America was the greatest country in the world before it was brutally murdered. Some would still call it the greatest country on earth. But the forefathers did create the greatest country in the world, which it was for over 200 years. A country like our has not been created since. No country is as free as ours was, is to some extent.

So yes, America even dead is still the greatest country in the world.



Sorry No, that's just jingoistic bullcrap. Parochial and ignorant.

Don't get me wrong. American is a great and admirable country in many ways, Was and still is. But you really got to get off this

"We won every war, we invented everything, we saved the world"

self important self righteous self deceit.

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Posted 11/14/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Sorry No, that's just jingoistic bullcrap. Parochial and ignorant.

Don't get me wrong. American is a great and admirable country in many ways, Was and still is. But you really got to get off this

"We won every war, we invented everything, we saved the world"

self important self righteous self deceit.



I never claimed that.
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Posted 11/14/10

Allhailodin wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Sorry No, that's just jingoistic bullcrap. Parochial and ignorant.

Don't get me wrong. American is a great and admirable country in many ways, Was and still is. But you really got to get off this

"We won every war, we invented everything, we saved the world"

self important self righteous self deceit.



I never claimed that.


You might as well have. How dare you claim your country is the greatest in the world when you know nothing about other countries. The United States was and is great by a number of different measures. It was a 'great power' its time as the empire of the day was certainly a time of wonder. It enshrined some worthwhile values and altered the face of political discourse for centuries. Yes it was and is great. But it's self centred egocentric bull to define it as "GREATEST EVAH". That point is debatable even between people with knowledge. Coming from your own admitted ignorance of things outside your narrow understanding it has all the validity and deserving respect due the latest pro-christianity rant from popcornpuffs.

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Posted 11/15/10
But all the above is getting way off topic...

More ON TOPIC to follow...
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Posted 11/15/10 , edited 11/15/10



Cutting public services is fine, were going to have to do it anyway with all the debt the dems racked up. Can't afford public services anymore lol. Besides high taxes chase businesses and jobs out of the country, Just look at NJ, they decided to implement a millionaires tax, and as a result of this poor decision, so many businesses and wealthy people fled the state that the state lost 70 billion in revenue, more than 5 times what the tax would have brought in, the state lost so much money that it had to make drastic cuts to education and public services. High taxes do this on a national scale, businesses and wealthy fee the country, last time I checked all the jobs in this country are created by the wealthy so chasing them out is a bad thing. Plus they create jobs when their taxes are low and kill them when their taxes are high, Regan lowered taxes to 20% and 8 million jobs were created in this country, Bush tax cuts created 1-4 million(different people will give different answers so it depends on who you ask), of which 3(2.9 - 3.1) million have been lost under Obama. If you want to create jobs you lower taxes its common sense. Jobs = Good.
And businesses export jobs because taxes are too high and regulations are too extreme, ask any business owner in the country and he will tell you it is impossible to operate a business in this country but its easy in a country like china who wants the businesses there.

And the government is even less your friend than big business is.



So you would much rather have leeching politician and road pox-marked with thrash and potholes and worse public schools than, say, leeching politicians and repaired roads, slightly less embarrising public schools.

Also, you really are delusional, aren't you? Even if we lower taxes, the business still won't back- that is because in their sweatshops in Vietnam, Kampuchea, Laos, China, Mexico, and various Latin American and Asian Third World Country, they can get away with paying their workers next to nothing- something no American will tolerate, in addition to no Regulations at all, yes, businesses there can get away with a modern Triangle Shirtwaist Factory. And, if you remembered, Bushonomics lead to job loss and even greater debts. I remember the first part acutely because my relative was laid off twice.

If you are a visual person, here is a chart from the Bureau of Labour Statistics:



Water boarding is very effective against people who come from desert lands like them, it invokes a primitive core fear, We got a ton of intel from them through water boarding, it works just fine, but because you won't let us get intelligence from them we can not longer find out about terror attacks being plotted or top leaders and people will die, so congratulations people will die as a result of your actions. You killed them, Brute force is the only thing animals understand. You have to show them force or it will never end. Weakness is not an option. but I guess you'd rather we stick our head in the sand like an ostrich and just let them kill us.

Besides you still haven't come up with an alt to extract intelligence from them. So I'm waiting. If you cannot think up a way to extract intelligence then you have no business killing an already effective method that works great.

Our government can't torture those who have constitional rights, but our government is free to torture those who do not.

And its not the government's job to protect your rights, its your duty to protect your own right and your own land, that is why the forefathers gave us guns. To protect our rights and land from an overstepping(big) government and to be able to form militias very quickly when invaded.


Then, wouldn't locking them in a box in the middle of a desert and placing, and then putting water out of their reach be much more effective- it has been tried with the Mongolians-

If you want to tap into their "natural instincts" as "desert dwellers", then wouldn't be more effective to tap into a desert dweller's greatest fear, that is, want of water?

And, of the death penalty, if you want something truly cheap, then use something that you can use over and over, like, I don't know- a guillotine. Provided that it is well maintained, it will cost less in the long run than your bullets. But you logic, not mine.

Torture is still bending the constitution because the Consitution only applies to the American Government- basically saying to the US government- every person is endowed with these rights. Now, a person can have free speech here, and not have free speech in other, certain nations. So, some foriegn national can scream 'Death to America' and not be arrested by the police- although he may suffer injury from an impassioned public, he still have the legal right.

But pretend you are right, then POW are protected by the Geneva Convention, yes, that pesky little thing we signed on to.




The greatest who ever lives, they created the greatest country in the world, and if it wasn't for them, you would have no rights or freedoms because we would still be a part of England.


Technicality Error- Great Britain- the Parliament of England and Scotland have been united by the Act of Union in 1707, creating, instead of two seperate nation who happen to be under the same monarch, a single nation under a single monarch, The Kingdom of Great Britain. Therefore, it would be wrong to say 'Part of England' when 'England', as a seperate kingdom, no longer exist at the period of seperation.



America was the greatest country in the world before it was brutally murdered. Some would still call it the greatest country on earth. But the forefathers did create the greatest country in the world, which it was for over 200 years. A country like our has not been created since. No country is as free as ours was, is to some extent.

So yes, America even dead is still the greatest country in the world.


Let's ignore certain facts, like Britain and France ended Slavery before we did, and they gave Women the right to vote first, and that France had Universal Male sufferage before the very thought of the thought of the idea popped into our founder's head. Let's pretend ignore the many other advancement of Liberty and Freedom made by other nations. Then, maybe, you may or may not be right.

Also, our founders were not great people- first Major Washington blundered Europe into the Seven Years' War, was captured several times, and the Americans weren't doing very with against the French and their Native American Allies, so Britian, after many years of neglect of American Colonies, decided to fight for her, send troops and her American Indian allies to repeal the French in both Europe and America. Then, when it landed Britain in debt, Britian, reasonably, decided to collect taxes from the Colonist (the prominent leaders of whom, for example, Handcock, were mostly smugglers, smuggling merchandises for the French while there was still a war), especially snice the folks back home actually had to bear most of the weight already. Even though it was still less than what was paid back home in Britian, the Colonist still refuse to pay taxes for the war they started, and, thus, they repealed those taxes. Next, the government decided to draw a Proclamation Line, so that they can cut the budget and not have to defend Americans who, for some reason, decided to live in the middle of no where. And, worst yet, they decided to fight because they accuse Britian of trying to turn them both Papish and French when Britian decided to allow the French of Quebec to practice their religion. And, who did they turn to to supply the revolution, the French, who did more then supply a few guns and soldiers, they practically sent their entire army to get revenge on the British. So, even then, it wasn't quite an American Battle. After the war, they went on to persecute the Loyalist. Of course, they all had their virtues, and Britian did do some wrong on its part, but their wrongs are highlighted for a single point, they were not all powerful moral leaders who were so good and great that the words 'good and great' is below them.

But, did they create a grand nation, warts and all? Yes they did. Were they awesomely great and infinitly wise and good people? Not at all. And, does their names turn up in rethoric so many times that to say, 'I believe that the founders would believe that...' would be completely cliche and meaningless and that the words 'the founding fathers' is just a political Jargon for English first person singular pronoun? Yes.

But does any of this relate to the Original Question? Probably not.
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Posted 11/15/10

longfenglim wrote:

Also, you really are delusional, aren't you? Even if we lower taxes, the business still won't back- that is because in their sweatshops in Vietnam, Kampuchea, Laos, China, Mexico, and various Latin American and Asian Third World Country, they can get away with paying their workers next to nothing- something no American will tolerate, in addition to no Regulations at all, yes, businesses there can get away with a modern Triangle Shirtwaist Factory. And, if you remembered, Bushonomics lead to job loss and even greater debts. I remember the first part acutely because my relative was laid off twice.

If you are a visual person, here is a chart from the Bureau of Labour Statistics:


That is utter bullshit, I saw that chart, it was created by Nancy Pelosi apparently, someone with -10 credibility. The democrats lie and take credit for other peoples work.

Unemployment was 5% under Bush, under Obama it grew to 10%(9.9 in April), that's a net loss buddy.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm

2001 4.7
2002 5.8
2003 6.0
2004 5.5
2005 5.1
2006 4.6
2007 4.6
2008 5.8
2009 9.3

Bush created 1. something million jobs, Obama's has lost 3 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms <--- Take a look for your self.

Its common sense, that the people who create all the jobs in this country are the wealthy, under Reagan he lowered taxes a fuckton, and deregulated the economy and what happened, something that liberals deny even to this day, Jobs were created and the economy grew, Oh no, how strange, the economy doesn't need to be completely controlled by the government ? Impossible.



Then, wouldn't locking them in a box in the middle of a desert and placing, and then putting water out of their reach be much more effective- it has been tried with the Mongolians-

If you want to tap into their "natural instincts" as "desert dwellers", then wouldn't be more effective to tap into a desert dweller's greatest fear, that is, want of water?

And, of the death penalty, if you want something truly cheap, then use something that you can use over and over, like, I don't know- a guillotine. Provided that it is well maintained, it will cost less in the long run than your bullets. But you logic, not mine.

Torture is still bending the constitution because the Consitution only applies to the American Government- basically saying to the US government- every person is endowed with these rights. Now, a person can have free speech here, and not have free speech in other, certain nations. So, some foriegn national can scream 'Death to America' and not be arrested by the police- although he may suffer injury from an impassioned public, he still have the legal right.

But pretend you are right, then POW are protected by the Geneva Convention, yes, that pesky little thing we signed on to.


We must do whatever needs to be done to get intel, if it means locking them in a box or waterboarding them. That intel is a must, for they pose the greatest threat to this nation.

International law such as the Geneva Convention is basically worthless, Teh Muslims don't abide by it, neither does North Korea or Iran or China or Russia, so in other words its worthless, its makes for a nice farce tho. In a real conflict between nuclear powers such as US and China or Russia, the complete ban on offensive used of nuclear weapon under it would utterly dissolve.

National Sovereignty is superior to International Law, if one nation says no rights for anyone but international law says rights for everyone, nobody in that nation gets rights because national sovereignty is superior to international law. If a nations laws are in direction confliction with your Geneva Convention is rendered Null and Void within that countries borders.


Technicality Error- Great Britain- the Parliament of England and Scotland have been united by the Act of Union in 1707, creating, instead of two seperate nation who happen to be under the same monarch, a single nation under a single monarch, The Kingdom of Great Britain. Therefore, it would be wrong to say 'Part of England' when 'England', as a seperate kingdom, no longer exist.


We would be a part of the utter disaster known as Europe. Same difference.



Let's ignore certain facts, like Britain and France ended Slavery before we did, and they gave Women the right to vote first, and that France had Universal Male sufferage before the very thought of the thought of the idea popped into our founder's head. Let's pretend ignore the many other advancement of Liberty and Freedom made by other nations. Then, maybe, you may or may not be right.


Irrelevant when slavery and what not was ended, the fact remains that we are the freest nation on earth, just because you hate individual freedom doesn't give you right to take it away from us. In England you cannot own explosives or nuclear materials. But here you can, hell in the US, if you have 40 million to waste I'm willing to bet you could get a private nuclear reaction built into your house. We can own guns, even tanks and fighters here. I can in the US mail order Uranium and tons of other nuclear materials. Can you do that in your beloved Europe.


Also, our founders were not great people- first Major Washington blundered Europe into the Seven Years' War, was captured several times, and the Americans weren't doing very with against the French and their Native American Allies, so Britian, after many years of neglect of American Colonies, decided to fight for her, send troops and her American Indian allies to repeal the French in both Europe and America. Then, when it landed Britain in debt, Britian, reasonably, decided to collect taxes from the Colonist (the prominent leaders of whom, for example, Handcock, were mostly smugglers, smuggling merchandises for the French while there was still a war), especially snice the folks back home actually had to bear most of the weight already. Even though it was still less than what was paid back home in Britian, the Colonist still refuse to pay taxes for the war they started, and, thus, they repealed those taxes. Next, the government decided to draw a Proclamation Line, so that they can cut the budget and not have to defend Americans who, for some reason, decided to live in the middle of no where. And, worst yet, they decided to fight because they accuse Britian of trying to turn them both Papish and French when Britian decided to allow the French of Quebec to practice their religion. And, who did they turn to to supply the revolution, the French, who did more then supply a few guns and soldiers, they practically sent their entire army to get revenge on the British. So, even then, it wasn't quite an American Battle. After the war, they went on to persecute the Loyalist.

But, did they create a grand nation, warts and all? Yes they did. Were they awesomely great and infinitly wise and good people? Not at all. And, does their names turn up in rethoric so many times that to say, 'I believe that the founders would believe that...' would be completely cliche and meaningless and that the words 'the founding fathers' is just a political Jargon for English first person singular pronoun? Yes.

But does any of this relate to the Original Question? Probably not.


The founders were great people because they understood that the government is the most corrupt entitiy of all, something you liberal types just cannot seem to wrap your brain cell around. OMG the government isn't perfect, how inconceivable.

The created a nation in which the government was to be limited to prevent corruption and tyranny from taking hold, another thing you cannot wrap your brain cell around, "tyranny ? no such thing has existed ever in the history of time".

Just because you happen to hate this country doesn't give you the right to actively destroy it, if you don't like it here, the gtfo. Simple. Move to the wasteland known as Europe, tho Europe is being actively destroyed and law and order is breaking down there as we speak. So moving their would be mistake. Europeans are weak, they won't even defend their own country and homes from teh invading armies.
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All Hail Odin, I love how everyone who dares to disagree with you is a liberal who hates all that is good. Yet you use the language of hate and contempt for all around you, how are your assertions about the great america any different from popcornpuffs praise of jesus christ. How is your assertion that europe is a wasteland any different from hers that catholics aren't real christians.

Keep it up and I'll start taking you about as seriously as I do her.
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That is utter bullshit, I saw that chart, it was created by Nancy Pelosi apparently, someone with -10 credibility. The democrats lie and take credit for other peoples work.

Unemployment was 5% under Bush, under Obama it grew to 10%(9.9 in April), that's a net loss buddy.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/prev_yrs.htm

2001 4.7
2002 5.8
2003 6.0
2004 5.5
2005 5.1
2006 4.6
2007 4.6
2008 5.8
2009 9.3

Bush created 1. something million jobs, Obama's has lost 3 million

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms <--- Take a look for your self.

Its common sense, that the people who create all the jobs in this country are the wealthy, under Reagan he lowered taxes a fuckton, and deregulated the economy and what happened, something that liberals deny even to this day, Jobs were created and the economy grew, Oh no, how strange, the economy doesn't need to be completely controlled by the government ? Impossible.


Job loss is different from Unemployment- that means there are less jobs loss during Obama than there are during Bush. Likewise, you are using Wikipedia as a source of Information- do I need to start on the reasons not to do so?

Additionally, Wealthy people don't create Jobs, because they are wiser than that, they try to save money and make money whenever possible- if there is no demand for any product, and the wealthy have extra money, they are not going to use it to create jobs, especially if it will probably turn out unprofitable- when it comes to the common man, however, they are not a frugal, and would start buying once more, increasing demand, and thereby the need to increase the supply, which would demand more jobs created. Common sense, what is that but sense shared by the Common, who formerly thought God made everyone out of Adam and Eve and the World was a flat plane fixed in the centre of the universe.




We must do whatever needs to be done to get intel, if it means locking them in a box or waterboarding them. That intel is a must, for they pose the greatest threat to this nation.

International law such as the Geneva Convention is basically worthless, Teh Muslims don't abide by it, neither does North Korea or Iran or China or Russia, so in other words its worthless, its makes for a nice farce tho. In a real conflict between nuclear powers such as US and China or Russia, the complete ban on offensive used of nuclear weapon under it would utterly dissolve.

National Sovereignty is superior to International Law, if one nation says no rights for anyone but international law says rights for everyone, nobody in that nation gets rights because national sovereignty is superior to international law. If a nations laws are in direction confliction with your Geneva Convention is rendered Null and Void within that countries borders.


Just because despots break those laws, it means we get free pass to do so as well- right- hah! I don't know where that can go wrong except, I don't know, we aren't despots, and I like to think we are better than them in that we still follow up on what we signed on to. But your America is different, apperantly, it is a land that follows the leadership of great men like Mr Putin, Mr Hu, my Honoured and Holy Lord, the Ayatollah.


We would be a part of the utter disaster known as Europe. Same difference.


Well, let's say you are right, and Europe is a disater- most European Nation are under the control of conservative governments like France's Mr Sarkozy, PM or Madam Merkel, PM. So, in other words, you are condemning Conservativism- are you really not a liberal?


Irrelevant when slavery and what not was ended, the fact remains that we are the freest nation on earth, just because you hate individual freedom doesn't give you right to take it away from us. In England you cannot own explosives or nuclear materials. But here you can, hell in the US, if you have 40 million to waste I'm willing to bet you could get a private nuclear reaction built into your house. We can own guns, even tanks and fighters here. I can in the US mail order Uranium and tons of other nuclear materials. Can you do that in your beloved Europe.


So, we have the right to own nuclear materials and guns, and apperantly that makes us more free? In that case, why doesn't the Iranian just buy some land, build a Nuclear Reactor, and then bomb America from within?

Also- Guns, if gun ownership is an indication of Freedom, then, by your logic, Canada is much more free than we are.


The founders were great people because they understood that the government is the most corrupt entitiy of all, something you liberal types just cannot seem to wrap your brain cell around. OMG the government isn't perfect, how inconceivable.

The created a nation in which the government was to be limited to prevent corruption and tyranny from taking hold, another thing you cannot wrap your brain cell around, "tyranny ? no such thing has existed ever in the history of time".

Just because you happen to hate this country doesn't give you the right to actively destroy it, if you don't like it here, the gtfo. Simple. Move to the wasteland known as Europe, tho Europe is being actively destroyed and law and order is breaking down there as we speak. So moving their would be mistake. Europeans are weak, they won't even defend their own country and homes from teh invading armies.


Did you read anything? Because you decided to prattle the same nonsense over and over again, I will not dignify the first part with an answer.

As for the second-
I don't hate America, I happen to love it. It is a great country, great people, birthplace of many eminently useful inventions, as the Lightbulb, a land where the oppressed are welcomed (usually), &c. The Founders created a government that they intentionally made to be able to change, a complex system of check and balances, among many other things, and I love all of that. But, to accuse me outright of disloyalty to America just because I said that the founders weren't exactly saints and martyrs, and that there is more to the Revolution than 'Big government imposing taxes upon poor colonists', I can say the same thing of you, seeing as you are criticising our great, wonderful, and absolutely flawless in every way possible government, example-


Don't like our government's way of handling thing, stfu and gtfo. By God, you are a traitor, a rouge, and an anarchist/fascist. Pack up and move to Sudan, you America hater, &c. &c.


But I don't, because I like to think that you aren't any of the above mentioned, and that we aren't as petty as to resort to that.

Also, you will do well to remember who are our allies in Afghanistan- your most hated Europe (among others).


Behold the chief who now commands,
Once more to serve his country stands.
The rock on which the storm will break,
The rock on which the storm will break,
But armed in virtue, firm, and true,
His hopes are fixed on Heav'n and you.
When hope was sinking in dismay,
When glooms obscured Columbia's day,
His steady mind, from changes free,
Resolved on death or liberty.

Firm, united let us be,
Rallying round our liberty,
As a band of brothers joined,
Peace and safety we shall find.

-Hail Columbia


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longfenglim wrote:

Job loss is different from Unemployment- that means there are less jobs loss during Obama than there are during Bush. Likewise, you are using Wikipedia as a source of Information- do I need to start on the reasons not to do so?

Additionally, Wealthy people don't create Jobs, because they are wiser than that, they try to save money and make money whenever possible- if there is no demand for any product, and the wealthy have extra money, they are not going to use it to create jobs, especially if it will probably turn out unprofitable- when it comes to the common man, however, they are not a frugal, and would start buying once more, increasing demand, and thereby the need to increase the supply, which would demand more jobs created. Common sense, what is that but sense shared by the Common, who formerly thought God made everyone out of Adam and Eve and the World was a flat plane fixed in the centre of the universe.


Unemployment = Job loss, when there's high unemployment it means their was high job loss, duh.

That's utterly preposterous, The rich single handedly create all teh jobs. When someone starts a business he created jobs, when he makes a lot of money and uses that money to expand his business he creates more jobs. Simple enough. If wealthy people didn't create jobs the only jobs would be worthless government jobs, there would be no private sector jobs, the only jobs that matter.

When a business owner(an evil rich person in liberal tongues) expands his businesses he creates jobs.



Just because despots break those laws, it means we get free pass to do so as well- right- hah! I don't know where that can go wrong except, I don't know, we aren't despots, and I like to think we are better than them in that we still follow up on what we signed on to. But your America is different, apperantly, it is a land that follows the leadership of great men like Mr Putin, Mr Hu, my Honoured and Holy Lord, the Ayatollah.


My America is one that isn't full of weak pussies who would rather lay down and die at the hands of muslims then stand up and fight for their freedoms.

Thus torture is needed to stand up and fight because we need that intelligence or the war is useless. If you cannot get intelligence then the war will produce no results.


So, we have the right to own nuclear materials and guns, and apperantly that makes us more free? In that case, why doesn't the Iranian just buy some land, build a Nuclear Reactor, and then bomb America from within?

Also- Guns, if gun ownership is an indication of Freedom, then, by your logic, Canada is much more free than we are.


It's not just that, we have more freedoms then they do in # terms. Tho we lose dozens of them each year to the government, freedoms we'll never get back, ever.



Did you read anything? Because you decided to prattle the same nonsense over and over again, I will not dignify the first part with an answer.

As for the second- I don't hate America, I happen to love it. It is a great country, great people, birthplace of many eminently useful inventions, as the Lightbulb, a land where the oppressed are welcomed (usually), &c. The Founders created a government that they intentionally made to be able to change, a complex system of check and balances, among many other things, and I love all of that. But, to accuse me outright of disloyalty to America just because I said that the founders weren't exactly saints and martyrs, and that there is more to the Revolution than 'Big government imposing taxes upon poor colonists', I can say the same thing of you, seeing as you are criticising our great, wonderful, and absolutely flawless in every way possible government, example-


Don't like our government's way of handling thing, stfu and gtfo. By God, you are a traitor, a rouge, and an anarchist/fascist. Pack up and move to Sudan, you America hater, &c. &c.


But I don't, because I like to think that you aren't any of the above mentioned, and that we aren't as petty as to resort to that.

Also, you will do well to remember who are our allies in Afghanistan- your most hated Europe (among others).


Behold the chief who now commands,
Once more to serve his country stands.
The rock on which the storm will break,
The rock on which the storm will break,
But armed in virtue, firm, and true,
His hopes are fixed on Heav'n and you.
When hope was sinking in dismay,
When glooms obscured Columbia's day,
His steady mind, from changes free,
Resolved on death or liberty.

Firm, united let us be,
Rallying round our liberty,
As a band of brothers joined,
Peace and safety we shall find.

-Hail Columbia




If you love this country then you have no business actively destroying it. If you dislike the way the fore fathers set things up then get out. Simple.
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Posted 11/15/10

Allhailodin wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

All Hail Odin, I love how everyone who dares to disagree with you is a liberal who hates all that is good. Yet you use the language of hate and contempt for all around you, how are your assertions about the great america any different from popcornpuffs praise of jesus christ. How is your assertion that europe is a wasteland any different from hers that catholics aren't real christians.

Keep it up and I'll start taking you about as seriously as I do her.


Europe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a1PM6YB8wg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU7T5fbJbq0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt77xc8ESkE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhvRXt1ULZw

Is falling apart. Well being actively destroyed is more accurate. I have no interest in living in a country that does nothing to defend itself when invaders armies attack.


you know I thought I could reason with you. but you leave no room for conversation. your opinions are right and everyone else is wrong and a hater. This from a guy whose only knowledge of the world outside his limited evirons is youtube.

Well you win. Popcornpuffs the second. I shan't argue with you further. If you represent the real america I'm glad your ilk kicked my ancestors out back in the 1780's, No need to tell me to GTFO I'm gone. As for you. I wish the full consequence of your laughable opinions. May you get the America you want, and choke on it.

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Posted 11/15/10 , edited 11/15/10



Unemployment = Job loss, when there's high unemployment it means their was high job loss, duh.

That's utterly preposterous, The rich single handedly create all teh jobs. When someone starts a business he created jobs, when he makes a lot of money and uses that money to expand his business he creates more jobs. Simple enough. If wealthy people didn't create jobs the only jobs would be worthless government jobs, there would be no private sector jobs, the only jobs that matter.

When a business owner(an evil rich person in liberal tongues) expands his businesses he creates jobs.


Unemployment is different from job loss in that Job loss is the amount of jobs lost on that year, v.s. the amount of people without a job, that is people already unemployed when the year started, and have yet to find another job. An stern economist as yourself should be able to distinguish between those two.

Also, using sense, Rich people, when given more money, won't create jobs- why? Read over what I said- if there is no-one buying anything, the rich won't say, 'You know what, let's waste money and create/expand my business.' Simple yes? Your model proposes that they are awesome folks who thinks, 'you know what, now that I have more money, and nobody is going to buy anything, I think I'll expand my business for the shits, while I'm at it, I think I will hire more maids to sate my fethish.' That is simply illogical.


Thus torture is needed to stand up and fight because we need that intelligence or the war is useless. If you cannot get intelligence then the war will produce no results.


And you propose that we break our own law to do so? So, you agree then, that laws should be bent from time to time. That contridicts your earlier statement that the law should never be broken. Likewise, you are avocating that we should follow dictators and despots, even though with Liberalism, you say we will turn to tyrannies like them. So, by your logic, we were never at war with Eurasia last week, we were always at war with Eastasia this week, and starting next month, Eastasia has always been our allies.


It's not just that, we have more freedoms then they do in # terms. Tho we lose dozens of them each year to the government, freedoms we'll never get back, ever.


What the hell are you talking about? If I can understand your propaganda and gibberish, maybe, just maybe, I may answer you.


If you love this country then you have no business actively destroying it. If you dislike the way the fore fathers set things up then get out. Simple


So, because I happen to propose that the founders weren't godheads, you are saying now that I hate America, am trying to destroy it, actively plotting to gun down the President, declear a cursade on all freedom lovers everywhere, and wish to eat blond-haired, blue-eyed babies, and I don't belong here, Simple? So, because I expressed an opinion, backed by historical evidence, you decide that I don't have the right to live here as a citizen? That is not very American of you, to openly wish the explusion of people who disagree with you.

That sounds almost like- gasp- authoritarianism and totalitarianism.

Because both are synonyms of Liberalism in your book, are you really not a Liberal?

Answer truthfully, no one will judge you.



The Founding Fathers-
(American English)
First Person Singular Subject Pronoun, see I.
Examples-
The founding fathers believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman

The founding fathers would've supported this bill for Gay Marriage

The founding fathers would turn in turn in their graves if they knew what Liberals/Conservatives are doing to America
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Posted 11/15/10

longfenglim wrote:

Unemployment is different from job loss in that Job loss is the amount of jobs lost on that year, v.s. the amount of people without a job, that is people already unemployed when the year started, and have yet to find another job. An stern economist as yourself should be able to distinguish between those.

Also, using sense, Rich people, when given more money, won't create jobs- why? Read over what I said- if there is no-one buying anything, the rich won't say, 'You know what, let's waste money and create/expand my business.' Simple yes? Your model proposes that they are awesome folks who thinks, 'you know what, now that I have more money, and nobody is going to buy anything, I think I'll expand my business for the shits, while I'm at it, I think I will hire more maids to sate my fethish.' That is simply illogical.


Indeed, however it is completely balmy to deny that starting business / expanding them doesn't create jobs, which is what rich people tend to do during lax times, because as one who understands their mindset, it will mean more profits when the economy is better. If you expand your business you can real in greater profits. Have to spend money to make money dude.

If you give businesses owners (the foundation of our economy, how totally evil right) tax breaks it means they have more money to invest in expanding their business, all businesses want to expand, expansion = more $$$.

Practical Example

If I have one restaurant of whatever kind you want, japanese, korean, whatever and it makes 250,000 pure profit, thats after taxes and all other business and personal expenses. Am I going to hoard it and do nothing, or is the logical thing to do invest it by opening another restaurant, maybe italian or an american hamdog, luther burger and deep fry your own whatever restaurant, now that restaurant could possibly make another 250,000 pure profit, so instead of just sitting on your single 250,000 by investing it and expanding your business you'd increased(doubled to 500,000) your $$$ and created jobs in the process.


And you propose that we break our own law to do so? So, you agree then, that laws should be bent from time to time. That contridicts your earlier statement that the law should never be broken. Likewise, you are avocating that we should follow dictators and despots, even though with Liberalism, you say we will turn to tyrannies like them. So, by your logic, we were never at war with Eurasia last week, we were always at war with Eastasia this week, and starting next month, Eastasia has always been our allies.


You fail to understand, the constitution doesn't apply to POW's or non citizens. The Geneva Convention might, but UN law has less value then a confederate dollar did after the war.


What the hell are you talking about? If I can understand your propaganda and gibberish, maybe, just maybe, I may answer you.


Quite simple ~ Every law / regulation passed is a freedom lost ~

Ban on trans fats killed the freedom to eat tasty food since trans fats are what you put in food to make it taste good.
Ban on sale of fireworks in CA killed the freedom to own fireworks
Requiring a license to purchase explosives. Didn't used to need one, used to be able to buy them over the counter.
The federal assault weapons ban killed the freedom to own assault weapons(tho now its defunct)

And dozens of similar laws are passed each year thus killing dozens of freedoms each year, freedoms you never ever get back. America was once free but its rapidly dwindling.


So, because I happen to propose that the founders weren't godheads, you are saying now that I hate America, am trying to destroy it, actively plotting to gun down the President, declear a cursade on all freedom lovers everywhere, and wish to eat blond-haired, blue-eyed babies, and I don't belong here, Simple? So, because I expressed an opinion, backed by historical evidence, you decide that I don't have the right to live here as a citizen? That is not very American of you, to openly wish the explusion of people who disagree with you.


That sounds almost like- gasp- authoritarianism and totalitarianism.

Some of teh founders were atheists yes.

Replacing what little remaining freedoms we have left with government regulations and control is what I consider actively destroying the country. Tea party too, that's like their thing, Put simply there is too much government in this country and its a threat to our freedoms and liberties. Increasing the government only increases the threat to freedom. These people need to get out because they are actively killing our freedom. I have no problem with differing opinion. I will kill and fight to the death for your right to have that opinion, but I have a problem with people who actively kill freedom. Which is what expanding government does.
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Posted 11/16/10 , edited 11/16/10

Allhailodin wrote:

Europe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a1PM6YB8wg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU7T5fbJbq0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt77xc8ESkE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhvRXt1ULZw

Is falling apart. Well being actively destroyed is more accurate. I have no interest in living in a country that does nothing to defend itself when invaders armies attack.


edit.: OP is right, my reply was way of topic so I deleted it. I just want to say that you are very, very insulting.
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Posted 11/16/10
I have mixed feelings about my own topic after reading all this, and what concerns me even more is that my question on when the term liberal/liberallism changed and became something evil has not been awnserd, and frankly I have given up on the thought of having that question awnsered.

However I have tried to come up with my own awnser.
This goes not only for the term liberal, but for every term used as a insult, here it is:
If one group dislikes the actions taken by a other group for example: People disliking the fact that toys may not be given away together with Happy meals anymore, the groups disliking that action will come up with a term, for example ''Food facists''.
Even thoo the people who have taken away the toys are not really ''facists'' or ''food'' it's just very easy to use as a insult.
Same thing must have happend to the term liberal, the word that once meant less govermential influence, more economical freedom now oddly enough stands for socialism, goverment influence and taking away freedom.

I hope this small and probably innaccurate awnser closes down this topic.
Because any discussion going on here will not be fruitfull to anyone and will only lead to more radical thoughs.

Anyway please stop turning this topic in a off-topic flame war,
And please post without your reason being ''hate''
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