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Liberalism
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27 / M / Mount Vernon, N.Y.
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Posted 11/18/10
I see your point, but from what I have studied is that according to the US Census report published September 2010 is that about 85% of Americans so have private insurance and 15% have none. Of those 85% many worry about the cost or that they will loose their insurance should they loose their job, 55% of citizens have employer based insurance. So having universal health care is not preferable to the Americans who have insurance but would be to those who dont or will loose it should they loose their job. But this would not mean "government run health care" would dominate the health care industry, instead it would be an option for those who cannot afford private insurance. To use a crude example, think of universities both private and state run. When state universities were implemented, private universities, such as Yale and Harvard, were not put out of business. Instead, they made even more money (even pumped a few thousand dollars out of me).
As for taxes, yes theres no denying the fact that citizens making over $250,000 are taxed heavier that those making less than that. However, small business owners or "self employed" people hardly fall into that category. Siting the Census report again, the median of income for American citizens was reported as $49,777. Most self employed people are not too far above this median although I will admit its quite difficult to find out what the median income of self employed people are but from what I can gather, yes some are above the $250,000, or 33% tax bracket, but not the majority of them. I went to payscale.com and ssa.gov to look this up but admittedly its not "concrete."
By the way, thanks for being respectful in your response. Alot of forums Ive seen have people typing with the caps lock on and name calling right off the bat. I appreciate the politeness!
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Posted 11/18/10 , edited 11/18/10

longfenglim wrote:



Note- Democrats still keep all the densely populated area, as opposed to the sparsely populated area the Republicans hold- the Republicans still won, mind you, just that it isn't a complete annihilation. So, in layman's term, where-ever there is a borough with mostly sheep-shaggers, the Republicans carried the day, where-ever the there are cities, the democrats carried the day.

But, remember, the Senate is enbued with more power than the House, and the Republicans still don't hold the majority- I retain my earlier statement about the great shame of losing an election to democrats, it is not suppose to happen, just as Italians are not suppose to win wars and the American Public, or any public mind you, are suppose to be sensible- which brings me to another point- that's why we don't have a full-on democracy- the American people are fickle and easily wooed, which is why this isn't a referendum, this is just what they call 'Passion of the Moment', and, if the economy still goes down with the Republicans (which is probably will), it will be back to the Democrats, and you will promptly be silent while those annoying Liberals will be all like, 'Yeah, told you they sucked, but did you listen, no, cause they are all like douches and all...' That is why we should have a system of Proportional Representation as in the European Countries, based upon the Party-list system, the amount of vote the Party as a whole gets is proportionally distributed to the number of seats- therefore people will not fear 'wasting votes'. So, for ten seats, if Democrats get 59% of the vote, Republicans 30.5%, Hippy-Commie World Peace Party 10.2% and Misc. gets 0.3%, the Dems get 6 seats, GOP 3, HCWPP 1. This expands our choice in incompetant bastards we send to represent us. You may say that that isn't the way the founders design things, but, remember, the Founders didn't really expect to have parties either.


The dem super majority has been lost, they can no longer ram horrible backwards and unpopular legislation down our throats.

The senate may have more power but it takes both houses to get anything done. If both houses don't sign off a bill goes nowhere, and since the Repubs hold one house, they can just veto all the bills, and likewise the Dem's also can do the exact same thing.

But your mistaken that if the economy doesn't turn around, the Repub's will be gone, it's actually the opposite, Obama will be gone and Dem's will lose even more seats. The pres gets blamed for everything and anything, Bush got blamed for weather phenomenon. Obama is being blamed for the economy as we speak. If it fails to turn around and it will because we will be grid locked so nothing will get done, Obama will take the fall for it.

And this is a massive referendum on Obama, the people didn't want Obama care, they despised it once they found out what was in it, and it was rammed down their throats against their will. People do not want the government running our health care. Its also Cap and Tax, which is not only bad for our economy but bad for our countries energy situation since it will drive the price of energy through the roof, and their also upset about Obamas idea to nationalize the energy industry and ration our health care. Americans are very upset with Obama, Reid and speaker of the house who's name I'd have too look up to spell but am too lazy to do so.



This is what americans want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_from_America



1. Identify constitutionality of every new law: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does (82.03%).


2. Reject emissions trading: Stop the "cap and trade" administrative approach used to control pollution by providing economic incentives for achieving reductions in the emissions of pollutants. (72.20%).


3. Demand a balanced federal budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax modification. (69.69%)


4. Simplify the tax system: Adopt a simple and fair single-rate tax system by scrapping the internal revenue code and replacing it with one that is no longer than 4,543 words – the length of the original Constitution. (64.9%)


5. Audit federal government agencies for constitutionality: Create a Blue Ribbon taskforce that engages in an audit of federal agencies and programs, assessing their Constitutionality, and identifying duplication, waste, ineffectiveness, and agencies and programs better left for the states or local authorities. (63.37%)


6. Limit annual growth in federal spending: Impose a statutory cap limiting the annual growth in total federal spending to the sum of the inflation rate plus the percentage of population growth. (56.57%).


7. Repeal the health care legislation passed on March 23, 2010: Defund, repeal and replace the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. (56.39%).


8. Pass an 'All-of-the-Above' Energy Policy: Authorize the exploration of additional energy reserves to reduce American dependence on foreign energy sources and reduce regulatory barriers to all other forms of energy creation. (55.5%).


9. Reduce Earmarks: Place a moratorium on all earmarks until the budget is balanced, and then require a 2/3 majority to pass any earmark. (55.47%).


10. Reduce Taxes: Permanently repeal all recent tax increases, and extend permanently the George W. Bush temporary reductions in income tax, capital gains tax and estate taxes, currently scheduled to end in 2011. (53.38%).


Those are all good things

And if you want that European model, move to Europe. but that's not going to happen here since the Constitution sets up the way the government runs. It cannot happen here.
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Posted 11/18/10 , edited 11/18/10

Allhailodin wrote:


longfenglim wrote:



Note- Democrats still keep all the densely populated area, as opposed to the sparsely populated area the Republicans hold- the Republicans still won, mind you, just that it isn't a complete annihilation. So, in layman's term, where-ever there is a borough with mostly sheep-shaggers, the Republicans carried the day, where-ever the there are cities, the democrats carried the day.

But, remember, the Senate is enbued with more power than the House, and the Republicans still don't hold the majority- I retain my earlier statement about the great shame of losing an election to democrats, it is not suppose to happen, just as Italians are not suppose to win wars and the American Public, or any public mind you, are suppose to be sensible- which brings me to another point- that's why we don't have a full-on democracy- the American people are fickle and easily wooed, which is why this isn't a referendum, this is just what they call 'Passion of the Moment', and, if the economy still goes down with the Republicans (which is probably will), it will be back to the Democrats, and you will promptly be silent while those annoying Liberals will be all like, 'Yeah, told you they sucked, but did you listen, no, cause they are all like douches and all...' That is why we should have a system of Proportional Representation as in the European Countries, based upon the Party-list system, the amount of vote the Party as a whole gets is proportionally distributed to the number of seats- therefore people will not fear 'wasting votes'. So, for ten seats, if Democrats get 59% of the vote, Republicans 30.5%, Hippy-Commie World Peace Party 10.2% and Misc. gets 0.3%, the Dems get 6 seats, GOP 3, HCWPP 1. This expands our choice in incompetant bastards we send to represent us. You may say that that isn't the way the founders design things, but, remember, the Founders didn't really expect to have parties either.


The dem super majority has been lost, they can no longer ram horrible backwards and unpopular legislation down our throats.

The senate may have more power but it takes both houses to get anything done. If both houses don't sign off a bill goes nowhere, and since the Repubs hold one house, they can just veto all the bills, and likewise the Dem's also can do the exact same thing.

But your mistaken that if the economy doesn't turn around, the Repub's will be gone, it's actually the opposite, Obama will be gone and Dem's will lose even more seats. The pres gets blamed for everything and anything, Bush got blamed for weather phenomenon. Obama is being blamed for the economy as we speak. If it fails to turn around and it will because we will be grid locked so nothing will get done, Obama will take the fall for it.

And this is a massive referendum on Obama, the people didn't want Obama care, they despised it once they found out what was in it, and it was rammed down their throats against their will. People do not want the government running our health care. Its also Cap and Tax, which is not only bad for our economy but bad for our countries energy situation since it will drive the price of energy through the roof, and their also upset about Obamas idea to nationalize the energy industry and ration our health care. Americans are very upset with Obama, Reid and speaker of the house who's name I'd have too look up to spell but am too lazy to do so.



This is what americans want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_from_America



1. Identify constitutionality of every new law: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does (82.03%).


2. Reject emissions trading: Stop the "cap and trade" administrative approach used to control pollution by providing economic incentives for achieving reductions in the emissions of pollutants. (72.20%).


3. Demand a balanced federal budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax modification. (69.69%)


4. Simplify the tax system: Adopt a simple and fair single-rate tax system by scrapping the internal revenue code and replacing it with one that is no longer than 4,543 words – the length of the original Constitution. (64.9%)


5. Audit federal government agencies for constitutionality: Create a Blue Ribbon taskforce that engages in an audit of federal agencies and programs, assessing their Constitutionality, and identifying duplication, waste, ineffectiveness, and agencies and programs better left for the states or local authorities. (63.37%)


6. Limit annual growth in federal spending: Impose a statutory cap limiting the annual growth in total federal spending to the sum of the inflation rate plus the percentage of population growth. (56.57%).


7. Repeal the health care legislation passed on March 23, 2010: Defund, repeal and replace the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. (56.39%).


8. Pass an 'All-of-the-Above' Energy Policy: Authorize the exploration of additional energy reserves to reduce American dependence on foreign energy sources and reduce regulatory barriers to all other forms of energy creation. (55.5%).


9. Reduce Earmarks: Place a moratorium on all earmarks until the budget is balanced, and then require a 2/3 majority to pass any earmark. (55.47%).


10. Reduce Taxes: Permanently repeal all recent tax increases, and extend permanently the George W. Bush temporary reductions in income tax, capital gains tax and estate taxes, currently scheduled to end in 2011. (53.38%).


Those are all good things

And if you want that European model, move to Europe. but that's not going to happen here since the Constitution sets up the way the government runs. It cannot happen here.


Oh, silly optimism- The Party in Power always get the flak- the American people will then say- y'know, I kinder remember things were better with the Dems, let's vote them back in, such is the amnesia of the American Pulbic- The Republicans will lose seat, dems will be back in power (whish is a sad thing really, to have a party divided among itself on almost every issue in power)- so, still, its not a referendum, its just a momentary passion of a fickle public- the Public didn't want Medicare and medicaid at first, now they hold this as almost a sacred right.

Also, what is with all this silliness- a list of almost nothing worthwhile- it is just rethoric piled upon more rethoric of a silly grassroot movement that you happen to agree with, remember, there is a big difference between 'me' and 'the American People'.

In addition- I was just proposing a model that allows more choice in cretins- if you want to stick to this dated model of government, created without the intention of Parties, then you have the right to believe that this is best, and, as seen from time to time, it is great to have to choose one or the other- I am just saying if we have a system based upon Proportional Representation, there will be less wasted votes, so, Republicans in a mostly Blue States, such as California or New York, won't have to worry about not having their votes not count for shit, and likewise for Dems in Red States, in addition to being more fair to third parties like the Green Party, the Liberty Party, and what have you(though this would mean that our traditional states would have to be redefined based upon population), unlike you, I am willing to say America is, though great, not exactly perfect. Also, the Constitution can be edited, revised, amended, &c.- A convention proposed by the House and Senate and agreed upon by the state legislator, or two thirds of the States want an amendment and the Congress must call a Consitutional Convention- not saying either will happen anytime soon, just that the Constitution isn't set in stone.

But, I am tired of Politics- it can be liken to a duel between rogues, only the rogues in question are of the professional sort, politicians, and the weapons but silly, meaningless words.
Posted 11/18/10 , edited 11/19/10

Allhailodin wrote:


The dem super majority has been lost, they can no longer ram horrible backwards and unpopular legislation down our throats.

The senate may have more power but it takes both houses to get anything done. If both houses don't sign off a bill goes nowhere, and since the Repubs hold one house, they can just veto all the bills, and likewise the Dem's also can do the exact same thing.

But your mistaken that if the economy doesn't turn around, the Repub's will be gone, it's actually the opposite, Obama will be gone and Dem's will lose even more seats. The pres gets blamed for everything and anything, Bush got blamed for weather phenomenon. Obama is being blamed for the economy as we speak. If it fails to turn around and it will because we will be grid locked so nothing will get done, Obama will take the fall for it.

And this is a massive referendum on Obama, the people didn't want Obama care, they despised it once they found out what was in it, and it was rammed down their throats against their will. People do not want the government running our health care. Its also Cap and Tax, which is not only bad for our economy but bad for our countries energy situation since it will drive the price of energy through the roof, and their also upset about Obamas idea to nationalize the energy industry and ration our health care. Americans are very upset with Obama, Reid and speaker of the house who's name I'd have too look up to spell but am too lazy to do so.



This is what americans want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_from_America



1. Identify constitutionality of every new law: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does (82.03%).


2. Reject emissions trading: Stop the "cap and trade" administrative approach used to control pollution by providing economic incentives for achieving reductions in the emissions of pollutants. (72.20%).


3. Demand a balanced federal budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax modification. (69.69%)


4. Simplify the tax system: Adopt a simple and fair single-rate tax system by scrapping the internal revenue code and replacing it with one that is no longer than 4,543 words – the length of the original Constitution. (64.9%)


5. Audit federal government agencies for constitutionality: Create a Blue Ribbon taskforce that engages in an audit of federal agencies and programs, assessing their Constitutionality, and identifying duplication, waste, ineffectiveness, and agencies and programs better left for the states or local authorities. (63.37%)


6. Limit annual growth in federal spending: Impose a statutory cap limiting the annual growth in total federal spending to the sum of the inflation rate plus the percentage of population growth. (56.57%).


7. Repeal the health care legislation passed on March 23, 2010: Defund, repeal and replace the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. (56.39%).


8. Pass an 'All-of-the-Above' Energy Policy: Authorize the exploration of additional energy reserves to reduce American dependence on foreign energy sources and reduce regulatory barriers to all other forms of energy creation. (55.5%).


9. Reduce Earmarks: Place a moratorium on all earmarks until the budget is balanced, and then require a 2/3 majority to pass any earmark. (55.47%).


10. Reduce Taxes: Permanently repeal all recent tax increases, and extend permanently the George W. Bush temporary reductions in income tax, capital gains tax and estate taxes, currently scheduled to end in 2011. (53.38%).


Those are all good things

And if you want that European model, move to Europe. but that's not going to happen here since the Constitution sets up the way the government runs. It cannot happen here.
This coming from a bunch of affluent minority as I've stated here, who had a track record of not willingly to share their power nor upholding their responsibility, is the kind of tyrannical manipulation of the mob that you think is a good thing, just because you said it is?

Hello Allhailodin, the self-proclaimed "liberal" with "unfairness at the core". Who also doesn't care about politics, just like the Republicans that he supports who disrupted government function to bring equality for women's rights by them simply being there, both as the congress as well as the senate:

If you heard that a proposed bill got 58 votes in support and 41 votes against, you'd think that would be a good thing, right? Not in the United States Senate, where the Paycheck Fairness Act died when a vote to move the bill forward failed by just that count -- 58 to 41, two votes short of the 60 votes required. It is the very same bill that passed in the House with bipartisan support in January 2009. Today, only Democratic senators voted to support Paycheck Fairness for women -- not a single Republican voted to allow the Senate to move forward. It is notable that the first vote after the election in which the American people sent a clear message that they want Washington to work better, the Republicans blocked a common sense measure aimed simply to help ensure that women get the pay they deserve.(citation)


In other words, he's the kind of authoritarian douchebag who keeps sending unworthy Republicans into office. Just because while he never knew what responsibility means for himself, he also worships the constitution and the founders like how a religious fundamentalist worships a religious text and a deity, under the grand predestine cathedral known as the selfish corporation of Calvinist capitalism. And in sociology this is known as religious nationalism:

Religious nationalism, I suggest, requires an institutional approach to the project of collective representation. Religious nationalism offers a particular ontology of power, an ontology revealed and affirmed through its politicized practices and the central object of its political concern, practices that locate collective solidarity in religious faith shared by embodied families, not in contract and consent enacted by abstract individual citizens. Understanding the institutional basis of religious nationalist discourse allows us to understand its affinities with socialist politics. If religious nationalism derives from religion's institutional heterology with the capitalist market and the democratic state, then it suggests the limits of a social theory that occludes that heterology.(citation)
And judging from his fondness for authoritarianism and capital punishment, It's thereby self-evident that he's a delusional bigot

The Child, the Family, the Nation, and God

Since the 1980s and the rise of the Christian Right, public policy regarding the treatment of criminals has echoed the patriarchal and punitive child-rearing practices favored by many Protestant fundamentalists. Most readers will recognize the phrase: "Spare the rod and spoil the child." This idea comes from a particular authoritarian version of fundamentalist belief.

According to Philip Greven:

The authoritarian Christian family is dependent on coercion and pain to obtain obedience to authority within and beyond the family, in the church, the community, and the polity. Modern forms of Christian fundamentalism share the same obsessions with obedience to authority characteristic of earlier modes of evangelical Protestantism, and the same authoritarian streak evident among seventeenth- and eighteenth-century Anglo-American evangelicals is discernible today, for precisely the same reasons: the coercion of children through painful punishments in order to teach obedience to divine and parental authority.


The belief in the awful and eternal punishment of a literal Hell justifies the punishment, shame, and discipline of children by parents who want their offspring to escape a far worse fate. This includes physical or "corporal" forms of punishment. "Many advocates of corporal punishment are convinced that such punishment and pain are necessary to prevent the ultimate destruction and damnation of their children's souls." This is often accompanied by the idea that a firm male hand rightfully dominates the family and the society. The system of authoritarian and patriarchal control used in some families is easily transposed into a framework for conservative public policy, especially in the criminal justice system.

Lakoff explains that on a societal level, according to conservative "Strict Father morality, harsh prison terms for criminals and life imprisonment for repeat offenders are the only moral options." The arguments by conservatives are "moral arguments, not practical arguments. Statistics about which policies do or do not actually reduce crime rates do not count in a morally-based discourse." These "traditional moral values" conservatives tend not to use explanations based on the concepts of class and social causes, nor do they recommend policy based on those notions." According to Lakoff:

For liberals the essence of America is nurturance, part of which is helping those who need help. People who are "trapped" by social and economic forces need help to "escape." The metaphorical Nurturant Parent-the government-has a duty to help change the social and economic system that traps people. By this logic, the problem is in the society, not in the people innocently "trapped." If social and economic forces are responsible, then other social and economic forces must be brought to bear to break the "trap."

This whole picture is simply inconsistent with Strict Father morality and the conservative worldview it defines. In that worldview, the class hierarchy is simply a ladder, there to be climbed by anybody with the talent and self-discipline to climb it. Whether or not you climb the ladder of wealth and privilege is only a matter of whether you have the moral strength, character, and inherent talent to do so.

To conservatives, the liberal arguments about class and impoverishment, and institutionalized social forces such as racism and sexism, are irrelevant. They appear to be "excuses for lack of talent, laziness, or some other form of moral weakness." Much of this worldview traces to the lingering backbeat of Calvinist theology that infuses "common sense" for many conservatives.
(citation)
"Morally-based discourse"? Well then according to Allhailodin's statement he's morally bankrupted. But ironically so was the National Socialist German Worker's Party.

Nazi in America?! Well what do you think the human irrationality known as conformity caused by minority influence is?

Principles of minority influence

This and other studies by Moscovici and others appear to demonstrate that the minority can influence the majority if:

* the minority disrupts the established norm and produces doubt and uncertainty in the mind of the majority
* the minority makes itself visible, focuses attention on itself
* the minority shows that there is an alternative, coherent point of view
* the minority demonstrates certainty, confidence and commitment to this point of view
* the minority signals that it will not move or compromise
* the minority implies that the only solution to restore social stability and cognitive coherence is for the majority to shift towards the minority(citation)
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Posted 11/18/10
The American People-
(Am. Eng.)
Fist Person Personal Pronoun, see I
(Usage note- usually used only in the realm of Politics)

The American People wants Healthcare and Communism- Random Liberal

The American People wants to tear down Obamacare and his Demoncrat Death Panel- Random Conservative
10521 cr points
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Posted 11/18/10

longfenglim wrote:

Oh, silly optimism- The Party in Power always get the flak- the American people will then say- y'know, I kinder remember things were better with the Dems, let's vote them back in, such is the amnesia of the American Pulbic- The Republicans will lose seat, dems will be back in power (whish is a sad thing really, to have a party divided among itself on almost every issue in power)- so, still, its not a referendum, its just a momentary passion of a fickle public- the Public didn't want Medicare and medicaid at first, now they hold this as almost a sacred right.


Things weren't better with the dem's things were awful. And the American people agree. Obama will be a one term president, and that is in the best interest of this country. His polices are damaging to this country, its economy, its prosperity, its wealth and its sovereignty over the rest of the world.

You are blind if you cannot see that this is a massive referendum on Obama and his policies. America rejected his polices and the tea party was birthed as a direct result of his policies(and their content). And most american's do not want medicare or medicade, the vaqst majority of americans I know, see medicare and medicade as a waste of tax payer money. Plus not to mention that their both bankrupt and will be in the massive red here in the next decade.


Also, what is with all this silliness- a list of almost nothing worthwhile- it is just rethoric piled upon more rethoric of a silly grassroot movement that you happen to agree with, remember, there is a big difference between 'me' and 'the American People'.


Everything on that list is worthwhile. Every last one of those items is a good thing, good for the people and for the country. And its not "me" I didn't invent this, the American people did. And the tea party is not silly, it represents the will of the American people and that we recognize that Obama is bad for this country. Your calling the american people silly and that's the attitude that caused the dem's to lose. The "Your stupid so do as well tell you because we know best" attitude that Americans are unhappy about.

Shall I go down the list ?



1. Identify constitutionality of every new law: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does (82.03%).


Do I really even need to explain it ? If the constitution forbids congress from passing laws that run contrary to it. Why shouldn't the congress have to prove how the laws it passes are allowed under the constitution, Will prevent another Obamacare from happening again.


Reject emissions trading: Stop the "cap and trade" administrative approach used to control pollution by providing economic incentives for achieving reductions in the emissions of pollutants. (72.20%).


This is good for the economy and for energy, Cap and trade would further burden an already stagnated economy thus preventing a recovery && it would drive energy prices through the roof. Your monthly electric bill would go up and you will be paying more for gasoline at the pump.


Demand a balanced federal budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax modification. (69.69%)


This is self explanatory. We are drowning in debt and its going to cause hyper inflation and taxs too skyrocket if not dealt with. When your paying 11 dollars for a loaf of bread, remember this.


Simplify the tax system: Adopt a simple and fair single-rate tax system by scrapping the internal revenue code and replacing it with one that is no longer than 4,543 words – the length of the original Constitution. (64.9%)


Again self explanatory, taxes are too complex, and the complexity is a burden to the businesses owners who fuel our economy.


Audit federal government agencies for constitutionality: Create a Blue Ribbon taskforce that engages in an audit of federal agencies and programs, assessing their Constitutionality, and identifying duplication, waste, ineffectiveness, and agencies and programs better left for the states or local authorities. (63.37%)


This is needed to balance the budget and protect rights.


Limit annual growth in federal spending: Impose a statutory cap limiting the annual growth in total federal spending to the sum of the inflation rate plus the percentage of population growth. (56.57%).


Prevents federal spending from going out of control and limits governmental growth so we don't end up like Europe.


Repeal the health care legislation passed on March 23, 2010: Defund, repeal and replace the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. (56.39%).


This is an absolute must as its likely unconstitutional, and it has cost americans their health care, because it has increased premiums and it has caused companies that normally provide health care to kill their health care so now we have less people with private health care then we did before, it also puts a huge burden on the state and will cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars.


Pass an 'All-of-the-Above' Energy Policy: Authorize the exploration of additional energy reserves to reduce American dependence on foreign energy sources and reduce regulatory barriers to all other forms of energy creation. (55.5%).


This is good because we would be able to drill for our own oil and would stop having to fund terrorists by buying their oil, it would also open up more opportunities to build more nuclear power plants which we need badly.


Reduce Earmarks: Place a moratorium on all earmarks until the budget is balanced, and then require a 2/3 majority to pass any earmark. (55.47%).


Caps wasteful and useless spending.


Reduce Taxes: Permanently repeal all recent tax increases, and extend permanently the George W. Bush temporary reductions in income tax, capital gains tax and estate taxes, currently scheduled to end in 2011. (53.38%).


This is good because it will held our economy recover and lower taxers is a good thing for everybody.



In addition- I was just proposing a model that allows more choice in cretins- if you want to stick to this dated model of government, created without the intention of Parties, then you have the right to believe that this is best, and, as seen from time to time, it is great to have to choose one or the other- I am just saying if we have a system based upon Proportional Representation, there will be less wasted votes, so, Republicans in a mostly Blue States, such as California or New York, won't have to worry about not having their votes not count for shit, and likewise for Dems in Red States, in addition to being more fair to third parties like the Green Party, the Liberty Party, and what have you(though this would mean that our traditional states would have to be redefined based upon population), unlike you, I am willing to say America is, though great, not exactly perfect. Also, the Constitution can be edited, revised, amended, &c.- A convention proposed by the House and Senate and agreed upon by the state legislator, or two thirds of the States want an amendment and the Congress must call a Consitutional Convention- not saying either will happen anytime soon, just that the Constitution isn't set in stone.


It can't happen in this country regardless of whether or not one thinks its better or not. The constitution is the law of the land and it cannot be voided. It can be amended but not voided. Its a Re Writable stone.
Posted 11/18/10 , edited 11/18/10

Allhailodin wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

Oh, silly optimism- The Party in Power always get the flak- the American people will then say- y'know, I kinder remember things were better with the Dems, let's vote them back in, such is the amnesia of the American Pulbic- The Republicans will lose seat, dems will be back in power (whish is a sad thing really, to have a party divided among itself on almost every issue in power)- so, still, its not a referendum, its just a momentary passion of a fickle public- the Public didn't want Medicare and medicaid at first, now they hold this as almost a sacred right.


Things weren't better with the dem's things were awful. And the American people agree. Obama will be a one term president, and that is in the best interest of this country. His polices are damaging to this country, its economy, its prosperity, its wealth and its sovereignty over the rest of the world.

You are blind if you cannot see that this is a massive referendum on Obama and his policies. America rejected his polices and the tea party was birthed as a direct result of his policies(and their content). And most american's do not want medicare or medicade, the vaqst majority of americans I know, see medicare and medicade as a waste of tax payer money. Plus not to mention that their both bankrupt and will be in the massive red here in the next decade.


Also, what is with all this silliness- a list of almost nothing worthwhile- it is just rethoric piled upon more rethoric of a silly grassroot movement that you happen to agree with, remember, there is a big difference between 'me' and 'the American People'.


Everything on that list is worthwhile. Every last one of those items is a good thing, good for the people and for the country. And its not "me" I didn't invent this, the American people did. And the tea party is not silly, it represents the will of the American people and that we recognize that Obama is bad for this country. Your calling the american people silly and that's the attitude that caused the dem's to lose. The "Your stupid so do as well tell you because we know best" attitude that Americans are unhappy about.

Shall I go down the list ?



1. Identify constitutionality of every new law: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does (82.03%).


Do I really even need to explain it ? If the constitution forbids congress from passing laws that run contrary to it. Why shouldn't the congress have to prove how the laws it passes are allowed under the constitution, Will prevent another Obamacare from happening again.


Reject emissions trading: Stop the "cap and trade" administrative approach used to control pollution by providing economic incentives for achieving reductions in the emissions of pollutants. (72.20%).


This is good for the economy and for energy, Cap and trade would further burden an already stagnated economy thus preventing a recovery && it would drive energy prices through the roof. Your monthly electric bill would go up and you will be paying more for gasoline at the pump.


Demand a balanced federal budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax modification. (69.69%)


This is self explanatory. We are drowning in debt and its going to cause hyper inflation and taxs too skyrocket if not dealt with. When your paying 11 dollars for a loaf of bread, remember this.


Simplify the tax system: Adopt a simple and fair single-rate tax system by scrapping the internal revenue code and replacing it with one that is no longer than 4,543 words – the length of the original Constitution. (64.9%)


Again self explanatory, taxes are too complex, and the complexity is a burden to the businesses owners who fuel our economy.


Audit federal government agencies for constitutionality: Create a Blue Ribbon taskforce that engages in an audit of federal agencies and programs, assessing their Constitutionality, and identifying duplication, waste, ineffectiveness, and agencies and programs better left for the states or local authorities. (63.37%)


This is needed to balance the budget and protect rights.


Limit annual growth in federal spending: Impose a statutory cap limiting the annual growth in total federal spending to the sum of the inflation rate plus the percentage of population growth. (56.57%).


Prevents federal spending from going out of control and limits governmental growth so we don't end up like Europe.


Repeal the health care legislation passed on March 23, 2010: Defund, repeal and replace the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. (56.39%).


This is an absolute must as its likely unconstitutional, and it has cost americans their health care, because it has increased premiums and it has caused companies that normally provide health care to kill their health care so now we have less people with private health care then we did before, it also puts a huge burden on the state and will cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars.


Pass an 'All-of-the-Above' Energy Policy: Authorize the exploration of additional energy reserves to reduce American dependence on foreign energy sources and reduce regulatory barriers to all other forms of energy creation. (55.5%).


This is good because we would be able to drill for our own oil and would stop having to fund terrorists by buying their oil, it would also open up more opportunities to build more nuclear power plants which we need badly.


Reduce Earmarks: Place a moratorium on all earmarks until the budget is balanced, and then require a 2/3 majority to pass any earmark. (55.47%).


Caps wasteful and useless spending.


Reduce Taxes: Permanently repeal all recent tax increases, and extend permanently the George W. Bush temporary reductions in income tax, capital gains tax and estate taxes, currently scheduled to end in 2011. (53.38%).


This is good because it will held our economy recover and lower taxers is a good thing for everybody.



In addition- I was just proposing a model that allows more choice in cretins- if you want to stick to this dated model of government, created without the intention of Parties, then you have the right to believe that this is best, and, as seen from time to time, it is great to have to choose one or the other- I am just saying if we have a system based upon Proportional Representation, there will be less wasted votes, so, Republicans in a mostly Blue States, such as California or New York, won't have to worry about not having their votes not count for shit, and likewise for Dems in Red States, in addition to being more fair to third parties like the Green Party, the Liberty Party, and what have you(though this would mean that our traditional states would have to be redefined based upon population), unlike you, I am willing to say America is, though great, not exactly perfect. Also, the Constitution can be edited, revised, amended, &c.- A convention proposed by the House and Senate and agreed upon by the state legislator, or two thirds of the States want an amendment and the Congress must call a Consitutional Convention- not saying either will happen anytime soon, just that the Constitution isn't set in stone.


It can't happen in this country regardless of whether or not one thinks its better or not. The constitution is the law of the land and it cannot be voided. It can be amended but not voided. Its a Re Writable stone.
Again with the authoritarian entitlement of an amateurish attitude. You're sounding like a broken record without factual proof nor categorical reasoning, kinda like this guy here, except for:

unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional,
unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional,
unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional,
unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional, unconstitutional,


Do you even know how to interpret your constitutional rights and freedom on your own? As in what does your constitution says when it comes to federal taxation?

AMENDMENT XVI

Passed by Congress July 2, 1909. Ratified February 3, 1913.

Note: Article I, section 9, of the Constitution was modified by amendment 16.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.(citation)
You read that? That's your sacred constitution telling you that "You don't like high and complicated income taxes? Well sucks to be you." Therefore what you just asked was "unconstitutional". Furthermore, your article of confederation clearly stated that:

VIII.

All charges of war, and all other expenses that shall be incurred for the common defense or general welfare, and allowed by the United States in Congress assembled, shall be defrayed out of a common treasury, which shall be supplied by the several States in proportion to the value of all land within each State, granted or surveyed for any person, as such land and the buildings and improvements thereon shall be estimated according to such mode as the United States in Congress assembled, shall from time to time direct and appoint.

The taxes for paying that proportion shall be laid and levied by the authority and direction of the legislatures of the several States within the time agreed upon by the United States in Congress assembled.
(citation)
It basically means if you don't wanna get taxed on your property all that much, then stop going into unnecessary war.

Stupid Tea Party Movement, it's just a bunch of ignorant losers who can't even read properly. Referring you guys as Nazis is an understatement, when you're not even that smart.
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Allhailodin wrote:


longfenglim wrote:

Oh, silly optimism- The Party in Power always get the flak- the American people will then say- y'know, I kinder remember things were better with the Dems, let's vote them back in, such is the amnesia of the American Pulbic- The Republicans will lose seat, dems will be back in power (whish is a sad thing really, to have a party divided among itself on almost every issue in power)- so, still, its not a referendum, its just a momentary passion of a fickle public- the Public didn't want Medicare and medicaid at first, now they hold this as almost a sacred right.


Things weren't better with the dem's things were awful. And the American people agree. Obama will be a one term president, and that is in the best interest of this country. His polices are damaging to this country, its economy, its prosperity, its wealth and its sovereignty over the rest of the world.

You are blind if you cannot see that this is a massive referendum on Obama and his policies. America rejected his polices and the tea party was birthed as a direct result of his policies(and their content). And most american's do not want medicare or medicade, the vaqst majority of americans I know, see medicare and medicade as a waste of tax payer money. Plus not to mention that their both bankrupt and will be in the massive red here in the next decade.


Also, what is with all this silliness- a list of almost nothing worthwhile- it is just rethoric piled upon more rethoric of a silly grassroot movement that you happen to agree with, remember, there is a big difference between 'me' and 'the American People'.


Everything on that list is worthwhile. Every last one of those items is a good thing, good for the people and for the country. And its not "me" I didn't invent this, the American people did. And the tea party is not silly, it represents the will of the American people and that we recognize that Obama is bad for this country. Your calling the american people silly and that's the attitude that caused the dem's to lose. The "Your stupid so do as well tell you because we know best" attitude that Americans are unhappy about.

Shall I go down the list ?



1. Identify constitutionality of every new law: Require each bill to identify the specific provision of the Constitution that gives Congress the power to do what the bill does (82.03%).


Do I really even need to explain it ? If the constitution forbids congress from passing laws that run contrary to it. Why shouldn't the congress have to prove how the laws it passes are allowed under the constitution, Will prevent another Obamacare from happening again.


Reject emissions trading: Stop the "cap and trade" administrative approach used to control pollution by providing economic incentives for achieving reductions in the emissions of pollutants. (72.20%).


This is good for the economy and for energy, Cap and trade would further burden an already stagnated economy thus preventing a recovery && it would drive energy prices through the roof. Your monthly electric bill would go up and you will be paying more for gasoline at the pump.


Demand a balanced federal budget: Begin the Constitutional amendment process to require a balanced budget with a two-thirds majority needed for any tax modification. (69.69%)


This is self explanatory. We are drowning in debt and its going to cause hyper inflation and taxs too skyrocket if not dealt with. When your paying 11 dollars for a loaf of bread, remember this.


Simplify the tax system: Adopt a simple and fair single-rate tax system by scrapping the internal revenue code and replacing it with one that is no longer than 4,543 words – the length of the original Constitution. (64.9%)


Again self explanatory, taxes are too complex, and the complexity is a burden to the businesses owners who fuel our economy.


Audit federal government agencies for constitutionality: Create a Blue Ribbon taskforce that engages in an audit of federal agencies and programs, assessing their Constitutionality, and identifying duplication, waste, ineffectiveness, and agencies and programs better left for the states or local authorities. (63.37%)


This is needed to balance the budget and protect rights.


Limit annual growth in federal spending: Impose a statutory cap limiting the annual growth in total federal spending to the sum of the inflation rate plus the percentage of population growth. (56.57%).


Prevents federal spending from going out of control and limits governmental growth so we don't end up like Europe.


Repeal the health care legislation passed on March 23, 2010: Defund, repeal and replace the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. (56.39%).


This is an absolute must as its likely unconstitutional, and it has cost americans their health care, because it has increased premiums and it has caused companies that normally provide health care to kill their health care so now we have less people with private health care then we did before, it also puts a huge burden on the state and will cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars.


Pass an 'All-of-the-Above' Energy Policy: Authorize the exploration of additional energy reserves to reduce American dependence on foreign energy sources and reduce regulatory barriers to all other forms of energy creation. (55.5%).


This is good because we would be able to drill for our own oil and would stop having to fund terrorists by buying their oil, it would also open up more opportunities to build more nuclear power plants which we need badly.


Reduce Earmarks: Place a moratorium on all earmarks until the budget is balanced, and then require a 2/3 majority to pass any earmark. (55.47%).


Caps wasteful and useless spending.


Reduce Taxes: Permanently repeal all recent tax increases, and extend permanently the George W. Bush temporary reductions in income tax, capital gains tax and estate taxes, currently scheduled to end in 2011. (53.38%).


This is good because it will held our economy recover and lower taxers is a good thing for everybody.



In addition- I was just proposing a model that allows more choice in cretins- if you want to stick to this dated model of government, created without the intention of Parties, then you have the right to believe that this is best, and, as seen from time to time, it is great to have to choose one or the other- I am just saying if we have a system based upon Proportional Representation, there will be less wasted votes, so, Republicans in a mostly Blue States, such as California or New York, won't have to worry about not having their votes not count for shit, and likewise for Dems in Red States, in addition to being more fair to third parties like the Green Party, the Liberty Party, and what have you(though this would mean that our traditional states would have to be redefined based upon population), unlike you, I am willing to say America is, though great, not exactly perfect. Also, the Constitution can be edited, revised, amended, &c.- A convention proposed by the House and Senate and agreed upon by the state legislator, or two thirds of the States want an amendment and the Congress must call a Consitutional Convention- not saying either will happen anytime soon, just that the Constitution isn't set in stone.


It can't happen in this country regardless of whether or not one thinks its better or not. The constitution is the law of the land and it cannot be voided. It can be amended but not voided. Its a Re Writable stone.


First, the recent election is not an indicator of how well Obama is doing- it is an indicator of what the public feels at the moment- and the public is fickle, so, if the economy doesn't get better, with Republicans in semi-control, they are more seceptible to Blame, lose seat, and the Status Quo ante Elecciones is restored. Also, Obama one-term, are you sure that is not just wistful thinking on your part- you are no seer, stop playing one. You are blind to everything else but what you want to see.

Second, it is meaningless drivel- the same rethoric I have heard from just about every other conservative. In fact, Mr Beck, who I am a fan of (don't believe me, read the fanfiction I have on his show in the 'Creative writing' section), said the exact same thing, and in the exact same order. It is meaningless and silly- I don't want to debate the ideas because that will result in the last six pages of our arguement- but it is so cliche that this 'grass-root' movement is just mainstream conservativism, only under a grassroot banner. Please stop confusing 'Myself' and 'The American People', they are two seperate identities.

Third, the Consitution can be amended- that is why senators are directly elected instead of being elected by the state legislator. If two-third of both the house or senate/two thirds of states want this, and it gets approved through the methods instated by our founders, it will be done. We can have, hypothetically, a Parliament based upon proportional representation. I am not saying it will happen, or even it can happen with the American people as it is, I am just saying it is possible and preferable to our current system.
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Uh of course your constitution can be amended? Even I, a foreigner know you've got something like 26 amendments...

Though I guess Prohibition and it's Repeal cancel each other out and really there's two less?

and isn't the 13th something about whatever the Fed doesn't control belongs to the states?

And If you don't know what the 2nd amendment says, the NRA will probably be along shortly to take away your 'red blooded American' stripes.



Posted 11/19/10 , edited 11/19/10
If liberalism means the freedom to make fun of those who deserves it, than it has every right to exist, irregardless of political correctness.
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Posted 11/19/10

Mr_Entropy wrote:



Asperger Syndrome lololololol

I am pretty sure that Allhailodin was trolling.


He does, in fact, have Aspergers Syndrome., you patronizing jackass.
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Posted 11/19/10

QuasimodoSunday wrote:


Mr_Entropy wrote:



Asperger Syndrome lololololol

I am pretty sure that Allhailodin was trolling.


He does, in fact, have Aspergers Syndrome., you patronizing jackass.


Unfortunately that doesn't excuse some of the shit he says here.

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Posted 11/19/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


QuasimodoSunday wrote:


Mr_Entropy wrote:



Asperger Syndrome lololololol

I am pretty sure that Allhailodin was trolling.


He does, in fact, have Aspergers Syndrome., you patronizing jackass.


Unfortunately that doesn't excuse some of the shit he says here.



I agree. I knew plenty of people with his conditions who are more well-mannered in basic social interaction. I just don't think he needs to make fun of him for having Aspergers either, especially since his poor conduct is the real issue.
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Posted 11/19/10 , edited 11/19/10

QuasimodoSunday wrote:



No argument here. It is more the conduct than the right leanings of the poster. I have my share of right wing opinions and bias. The difference is that I don't claim to speak for entire groups of people that I don't like and don't agree with nor do I tell people who disagree with me that they should STFU or GTFO.

Conversely, he shouldn't be mocked for his condition.


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Posted 11/19/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


QuasimodoSunday wrote:



No argument here. It is more the conduct than the right leanings of the poster. I have my share of right wing opinions and bias. The difference is that I don't claim to speak for entire groups of people that I don't like and don't agree with nor do I tell people who disagree with me that they should STFU or GTFO.

Conversely, he shouldn't be mocked for his condition.




I concur. He's doing fine with me personally. But his emotional control is lost when it comes to other people, which is unfortunate.
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