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Bible Debate
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29 / M / Undisclosed
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Posted 6/2/07
Post arguments and responses to those arguments here.
Intelligent debates only please.
Please refer to what argument you're debating about.
No flaming.

Argument 1: The Genesis states that the Universe was created in 7 days. The 6th day was when man was created. Where is the room for the dinosaurs?

Argument 2: After Cain slays Abel, he goes and chooses to build a "city". Not a hut, not a village or a town, but a city. The Genesis only mentions that Adam, Cain, and Eve are the only ones alive at this period. Where did Cain's wife come from?

Argument 3: The Genesis goes about and explains how in just a few generations, they discovered farming, ironsmithing, and bronzesmithing. Doesn't this counter a lot of the historic evidence? Doesn't history (scientific) assert it took a few thousand years before the people learned how to farm, and even longer to learn smithing?
6212 cr points
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29 / M / US
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Posted 6/2/07
1. the standard (educated, that is, lot of crackpot responses here) response is that the bible is a book that shows man how to be saved, not the state of the world. Its obvious the bible can't be counted on for the facts, pi=3, etc. So, can it show us how to be saved... There are more perplexing details about the creation story anyway, after all there are two of them after all in the same book.


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25 / F / !i!ToinK!i!
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Posted 6/2/07
i think i can only respond to arguement no.1

the bible can be interpreted differently... 7 "days" can literally mean "days"... but if we were to think it differently / interpret it differently, 7 days can mean 7 weeks, months, or years... so maybe, the bible didn't state everything that happened... dinosaurs could have been created somewhere in those times...
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24 / M / At my mummy's house.
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Posted 6/2/07
1. the dinosaurs are between the creation of animals

2. if you look in the bible more carefully, before he builds the city, there were more offsprings produced and it continued on giving Abel more men so they weren't the only people alive

3. i dont remember reading that part and im far too tired right now to look that one up, sorry ;(

no one is perfect, but God knows, adios amigos
Scientist Moderator
digs 
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26 / M
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Posted 6/2/07
1. Dinosaurs where made on the day that animals were made.

2. The bible mentions that adam and eve had other kids. Read genesis before you want to argue about it.

3. People in the Genesis lived to be 900+ years old. The book covers a very long time span.
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51 / M / Torphichen Scotland
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Posted 6/2/07
I have heard two differing Cretinist, oops, Creationist theories on dinosaurs.

1 The first is the good old one that they didn't really exists and god planted the bones as a test of faith. The second is that they were beasts of the field and their bones were buried due to the great flood.

Those that want some semblence of sanity in the religion do interpret days as periods rather than 24 hour units. However, the official Catholoic and Creationist line is something like Ussher's Chronology, which doesn't make much sense.

2 No idea why Cain would want to build a city. Perhaps it was for all the Egyptians who suddenly pop up out of nowhere, for apparently the sole purpose of enslaving the jews. The ground is a bit dodgy there as it is now thought that they were never enslaved, so the exodus is probably a bit of a fib. Unfortunately, that also makes the 10 commandments unreliable. Perhaps Moses just got a new chisel for Christmas and wanted to try it out.

However, that is probably a good thing for those that believe there is only one god. If he was the only one, what is the point of commanding that we should have no other before him. It would be impossible to break it and therefore redundant. Surely a god of his supposed power wouldn't waste his time like that.

3 I think this is another test of faith thingy and they don't believe it took that long.
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24 / M / At my mummy's house.
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Posted 6/2/07

dkscotland wrote:

I have heard two differing Cretinist, oops, Creationist theories on dinosaurs.

1 The first is the good old one that they didn't really exists and god planted the bones as a test of faith. The second is that they were beasts of the field and their bones were buried due to the great flood.

Those that want some semblence of sanity in the religion do interpret days as periods rather than 24 hour units. However, the official Catholoic and Creationist line is something like Ussher's Chronology, which doesn't make much sense.

2 No idea why Cain would want to build a city. Perhaps it was for all the Egyptians who suddenly pop up out of nowhere, for apparently the sole purpose of enslaving the jews. The ground is a bit dodgy there as it is now thought that they were never enslaved, so the exodus is probably a bit of a fib. Unfortunately, that also makes the 10 commandments unreliable. Perhaps Moses just got a new chisel for Christmas and wanted to try it out.

However, that is probably a good thing for those that believe there is only one god. If he was the only one, what is the point of commanding that we should have no other before him. It would be impossible to break it and therefore redundant. Surely a god of his supposed power wouldn't waste his time like that.

3 I think this is another test of faith thingy and they don't believe it took that long.


possibly the dinosaur theory is correct and the person to free the jews was moses... and thats all the way in Exodus... >_> or am i getting the wrong i idea?

and i agree with the earlier post about the "huge span" between the years
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32 / M / Canada
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Posted 6/2/07
1 man's method of keeping time probably isn't the same as god's method of counting time. one day to god could be a 1000 of man's years.

2 simply put the bible isn't an exaustive history of all of adam and eve's children. It only mentions a few significant ones i.e. cain, able, seth, ect.

3 it is plausible. Mankind has a habit of forgetting or just outright losing valuable knowledge on a widescale basis. it is possible that those technologies were know early in the history of man and then progressively lost and rediscovered. like how the indus valley had indoor plumbing, and possibly dentistry, they found a building with small drills and such, though that's just speculation. these were developed by them a few millenia ago and reletively recently rediscovered.
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26 / M / Park ave. Mansions
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Posted 6/2/07
and the bible is just a compilation and translation of what really happened, it means that it is 50% accurate, because the original cannot be read, it only translated
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26 / M / Park ave. Mansions
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Posted 6/2/07
i mean, i mean, translations are not as perfect as their original language!
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30 / M / Australia
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Posted 6/2/07
The bible was clearly written before people knew about the existance of dinosaurs. But instead of noticing this roflhuge disparancy. They instead say it's a "metaphor".

Even though religion has its shortcommings, at least the christians arn't the ones causing the majority of religious wars and the bible contains a good set of morals taught through parables to children, unlike the islamic bible which is just a set of rules and "do nots".

Some people can't live without religion, I'm not one of them, but whatever it takes to get you by. Original poster trust me, if they believe now, pointing out these points is just gonna get them rialed up, it won't actually change or make them question their beliefs.
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Posted 6/2/07
~Unlocked
However, stratify, let's not make a debate #1, #2 #3 ,etc each on a different thread.
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35 / F / East Bay California
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Posted 6/3/07
I'm with brtl33 on the topic of time in this one. But I'd also like to add that 7 (as well as 3) are considered power numbers which is why they tend to reoccur in many other stories.

*as to the second question...I for some reason seem to remember reading that when Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden...there were other people in the world. Adam and Eve were only created to be the caretakers of paradise, but...I'll have to research this and get back to you on this.

*and for number three...digs pretty much sums it up...all of the people in the old testiment had awfully long life spans (cool fact all of them are divisible by either 3 or 7...I remember in one of my mythology classes we were studying the significance of prine numbers in religion...3 & 7...it's crazy...kind of like that Jim Carrey movie...once you start looking for the pattern...it's everywhere)
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27 / M
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Posted 6/3/07
First off I would like to suggest a certain website that has a lot of information about this. http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/resurrection.html

Now here’s what everybody needs to understand. The week came from the bible. It’s that simple. Humans did not make it. We did not create it because it fits into the month or the year, or because some astronomical continuity. No. It comes from the bible.

However, if you read the entire bible it tells you “Ten Thousand years is but a day to God.” This being said who is to say that he meant a Human day? In fact it seems more likely that he does not mean a human day. It may also be a simple metaphor.

Honestly I view genesis to be a way to support evolution. Why? It says God made Adam from the soil. This may be an absurd thing to assume from that, but I feel this is God’s extremely simplified way of explaining evolution in a manner in which people of the time could understand.

Thus the first argument is not a very strong case.

The bible never specifically mentions any other children of Adam and Eves. However, this does not mean they were not there. I believe Adam and Eve had other children that were not listed. A theory I have heard on this was that God created man while evolution was still going on. So that Adam and Eve were created like “Poof” but other Humans began to evolve around them. I don’t like this theory but it should not be quickly discredited.

Thusly number two is dead.

For number three:
The bible also says that at that time people lived hundreds of years. So it is possible that their generations didn’t come as quickly. Moreover, the bible says everything was destroyed by a great flood except Noah and his family. If this is true then of course the knowledge would be lost. They could carry it on, if they knew how to do it but this I doubt. I live in a world with internet all around me, but if everything was whipped out by a flood, I couldn’t bring the internet back. Besides, bronze was developed in ancient Greece and Asia separately. Independently. Why couldn’t there be other isolated cases of more developments such as advanced metallurgy that were eventually lost.

Look at the Aztecs. They drew giant forms in the ground and to this day we are baffled at how they managed to make images so big. We got people popping out with, “Giant magnifying glass” theories!


8715 cr points
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29 / M / North Carolina
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Posted 6/3/07

digs wrote:

1. Dinosaurs where made on the day that animals were made.

2. The bible mentions that adam and eve had other kids. Read genesis before you want to argue about it.

3. People in the Genesis lived to be 900+ years old. The book covers a very long time span.


Hey! Incest is wrong, according to the bibile :3.. .I think..
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