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Real Life Self Defense Scenarios
Posted 11/1/10

Rina-San wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Rina-San wrote:

You can't predict a real self defense situation, anything can happen but its really good practice to make them up in the dojo and work out techniques. 14 years of experience in Karate and Taekwondo, and I can safely say anything goes whatever comes to mind at the time (have been in a number of real SD situations) my brain just reacts and tells my body what to do and what techniques I should use. It comes with a hell of a lot of time to drill techniques into your mind.
When you're habituating yourself for just that scenario with yourself training for just that reaction, you're developing a predictable pattern. I would rather eliminate any and all unforeseeable element for a surprise: blind-spots that are created by predictable patterns.

I'll formulate a surprise attack scenario based on just that principle, and see if you can devise a defense strategy for such an attack: your attacker will be close-in on you from the outskirt of your own peripheral field of vision:
The attack will be aimed at any exposed vital part of yourself in relation to your body position, you'll have no prior warning sign for the timing of such attack, and your attacker's goal is to stop you by any means necessary to do so.

The real beauty of my approach is to hide your attacker in plain sight; you'll see it there, but you have no idea just how close it gets until it's too late for yourself to react. What's more, your martial arts experience alone doesn't change the fact that you're still human with limited scope of depth around the edge of your peripheral vision. And my aim is to exploit that human weakness of yours.


I'm quite aware of my mortality, I'm just saying, in the past its been like second nature to me and it should be to all fighters, what you're showing there is a diagram, not a real scenario, its all in my mind where it belongs and I honestly cannot predict what I'll do until I do it. However, spar with me and I'll be able to give you an answer.
You're using a naturalistic fallacy of "is to ought" argument, and that's where you're wrong; your so-called "second nature" was nothing but predictable pattern for me to exploit your disposition even further. Whereas my diagram illustrates the edges of human peripheral vision relative to an individual's head position. This means that I can just walk straight up to your person along the edge, and you will know that something is there, but you can't tell just how close it's gaining on your person because you can't focus well 'less you tilt your head towards my general direction. And I won't give you a reason to do so because this can just be a normal day on the street, not a sparring match. In other words, the moment that you had to decide where you can spar, you limited your self-defense training only in sparring session. What a waste.

Finally, you want nothing to do with this part of me. It's arguably not my most agreeable state of mindset, mind you.
Posted 11/2/10 , edited 11/2/10


I really wasn't thinking of brightness and angles when someone grabbed me from behind on the street, if I must tell you, I back sweeped him and ran. Have you been in a real self defense situation? Because you can't really preech about this if you haven't. No offense =/ I'm speaking from multiple experience. What you're going is great and all but its like you're judging my style and my way of fighting and implying that I'm not a good fighter. Its really wrong to do that when you know nothing of my experiences. This is what I get for complementing another person's fighting style, stick -__- ugh...I'm not gonna read or reply to the next post so....


Posted 11/2/10
Here's a scenario.

You're walking down the street and 5 guys surround you and try to rape/steal things from you and intend to hurt you badly in the process.

Why settle for just one attacker? The world is so cruel, and evil doesn't work alone.

I know what I would do, we regularly train in multiple-attack scenarios in Ninjutsu and Aikido class, but its your request...
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Posted 11/2/10

Chained_Angel wrote:

Here's a scenario.

You're walking down the street and 5 guys surround you and try to rape/steal things from you and intend to hurt you badly in the process.

Why settle for just one attacker? The world is so cruel, and evil doesn't work alone.

I know what I would do, we regularly train in multiple-attack scenarios in Ninjutsu and Aikido class, but its your request...


itz ok if u have had those trainings. But if u haven't or aren't 2 confident abt winning against 5 of dem my suggestn wud b 2 scream(if its a crowded street) or try 2 run away. Dere's no tym 4 showing ur courage. U hav 2 get out of trouble 1st.
Posted 11/2/10

Rina-San wrote:



I really wasn't thinking of brightness and angles when someone grabbed me from behind on the street, if I must tell you, I back sweeped him and ran. Have you been in a real self defense situation? Because you can't really preech about this if you haven't. No offense =/ I'm speaking from multiple experience. What you're going is great and all but its like you're judging my style and my way of fighting and implying that I'm not a good fighter. Its really wrong to do that when you know nothing of my experiences. This is what I get for complementing another person's fighting style, stick -__- ugh...I'm not gonna read or reply to the next post so....
Which is why my scenario goes directly towards your cognitive blind spot, as an outsider who's not bonded by your rule. You may have been taught to fight only as a sport, but individual survival is anything goes; there's no referee nor instructor on the scene of real life, nor you can just pick and choose how your life will be. Whereas natural selection is unbiased to all.


Chained_Angel wrote:

Here's a scenario.

You're walking down the street and 5 guys surround you and try to rape/steal things from you and intend to hurt you badly in the process.

Why settle for just one attacker? The world is so cruel, and evil doesn't work alone.

I know what I would do, we regularly train in multiple-attack scenarios in Ninjutsu and Aikido class, but its your request...
Here's my countermeasure, is there anything you would like to add?
Posted 11/2/10

DomFortress wrote:


Rina-San wrote:



I really wasn't thinking of brightness and angles when someone grabbed me from behind on the street, if I must tell you, I back sweeped him and ran. Have you been in a real self defense situation? Because you can't really preech about this if you haven't. No offense =/ I'm speaking from multiple experience. What you're going is great and all but its like you're judging my style and my way of fighting and implying that I'm not a good fighter. Its really wrong to do that when you know nothing of my experiences. This is what I get for complementing another person's fighting style, stick -__- ugh...I'm not gonna read or reply to the next post so....
Which is why my scenario goes directly towards your cognitive blind spot, as an outsider who's not bonded by your rule. You may have been taught to fight only as a sport, but individual survival is anything goes; there's no referee nor instructor on the scene of real life, nor you can just pick and choose how your life will be. Whereas natural selection is unbiased to all.


Chained_Angel wrote:

Here's a scenario.

You're walking down the street and 5 guys surround you and try to rape/steal things from you and intend to hurt you badly in the process.

Why settle for just one attacker? The world is so cruel, and evil doesn't work alone.

I know what I would do, we regularly train in multiple-attack scenarios in Ninjutsu and Aikido class, but its your request...
Here's my countermeasure, is there anything you would like to add?


I think thats what Rina meant when she said "anything goes" she seems to have experienced real life situations so you can't argue with true experience in reality out on the streets.

Yep thats a good strategy, guaranteed a team of attackers is being lead by somebody, a member that overpowers the others and they are only there with them because they are afraid. It also has a runt of the litter, one that is easily beaten and your ticket to safety. If needs be, there are ways of obliterating everyone but as all true martial artists know, full-on combat is the last resort.
Posted 11/2/10

Chained_Angel wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Rina-San wrote:



I really wasn't thinking of brightness and angles when someone grabbed me from behind on the street, if I must tell you, I back sweeped him and ran. Have you been in a real self defense situation? Because you can't really preech about this if you haven't. No offense =/ I'm speaking from multiple experience. What you're going is great and all but its like you're judging my style and my way of fighting and implying that I'm not a good fighter. Its really wrong to do that when you know nothing of my experiences. This is what I get for complementing another person's fighting style, stick -__- ugh...I'm not gonna read or reply to the next post so....
Which is why my scenario goes directly towards your cognitive blind spot, as an outsider who's not bonded by your rule. You may have been taught to fight only as a sport, but individual survival is anything goes; there's no referee nor instructor on the scene of real life, nor you can just pick and choose how your life will be. Whereas natural selection is unbiased to all.


Chained_Angel wrote:

Here's a scenario.

You're walking down the street and 5 guys surround you and try to rape/steal things from you and intend to hurt you badly in the process.

Why settle for just one attacker? The world is so cruel, and evil doesn't work alone.

I know what I would do, we regularly train in multiple-attack scenarios in Ninjutsu and Aikido class, but its your request...
Here's my countermeasure, is there anything you would like to add?


I think thats what Rina meant when she said "anything goes" she seems to have experienced real life situations so you can't argue with true experience in reality out on the streets.

Yep thats a good strategy, guaranteed a team of attackers is being lead by somebody, a member that overpowers the others and they are only there with them because they are afraid. It also has a runt of the litter, one that is easily beaten and your ticket to safety. If needs be, there are ways of obliterating everyone but as all true martial artists know, full-on combat is the last resort.
However, my scenario for her isn't based on her expertises off the streets, but yours in the form of assassination using natural human elements.

And your last statement was from Aikido's philosophy of "true victory is mastery over oneself" isn't it? As a warning of overextending yourself will leave you open for counterattack.
Posted 11/2/10
You're sitting on the bus and a large man sits in the seat with you forcefully wedging you between the window and himself. He attempts to assault you. (This really happens from time to time in our city and the driver seldom does anything about it other than occasionally pulling over and getting out of the bus to call the police and avoid an "incident".)
Posted 11/2/10

WhenDreamsDie wrote:

You're sitting on the bus and a large man sits in the seat with you forcefully wedging you between the window and himself. He attempts to assault you. (This really happens from time to time in our city and the driver seldom does anything about it other than occasionally pulling over and getting out of the bus to call the police and avoid an "incident".)
I'll admit that's a real "pinch" you've got yourself there, pardon the pun.

Let's analyze our options, first I would look for alternative sitting arrangement so I won't be boxed-in:

If that's not available, then just don't sit next to the window. Let the other person take the window seat. Finally, when all seating options are taken, then congratulations, I get zero chance of me sitting next to anyone.

OK, let's say that I lucked-out and got myself trapped on the receiving end of an assault. First to throw my attacker off-guard by digging my thumbs into his eyes. I'll then brace my shoulder into his midsection, dig my legs against the wall. Then push him off the seat by kicking my legs as hard as I could off the wall.
Posted 11/3/10

WhenDreamsDie wrote:

You're sitting on the bus and a large man sits in the seat with you forcefully wedging you between the window and himself. He attempts to assault you. (This really happens from time to time in our city and the driver seldom does anything about it other than occasionally pulling over and getting out of the bus to call the police and avoid an "incident".)


Hmm thats a very odd situation to get attacked in, is it a night bus? There are so many witnesses usually unless the bus is very quiet, I would make a scene to get other people on the bus to notice what is happening or is about to happen.

I pictured your scenario like this:

You are sitting on a pretty empty bus, there are many available seats, the fact that the person sits next to you when there are many other places to sit is alarming in itself so you know something is going down. Move immediately, you know its gonna be bad because he had so many other seats to choose from. Keep eye contact with him as you sit down elsewhere to show you are aware of his intentions and there is no way in hell he is going to go through with it. Think of the wild, gazelles and deer make themselves appear more powerful to show that they have no weakness so the predators will avoid them. I would also move close to the driver in this situation. No combat has happened, you have avoided it successfully (but of course things could be different, he or she could grab your arm or force you back down, which is where basic self defense comes in, arm bars and locks if you can or if you're untrained use the bottom of your palm where the wrist joins the hand to strike upwards at his or her nose, keep the tips of your fingers bent down and your thumb bent and hooked close to your palm. This is a very painful but simple technique and the initial instinct here is for them to hold their injured nose with both hands, releasing you at the same time. Also, punching with your fists incorrectly can injure you which is why the palm-hand (what I just showed you) is good as the bottom of the palm is the hardest part of the hand and cannot break easily) This is where you can make a break to the front of the bus, tell the driver, and your foe is defeated.
Posted 11/3/10

Chained_Angel wrote:


WhenDreamsDie wrote:

You're sitting on the bus and a large man sits in the seat with you forcefully wedging you between the window and himself. He attempts to assault you. (This really happens from time to time in our city and the driver seldom does anything about it other than occasionally pulling over and getting out of the bus to call the police and avoid an "incident".)


Hmm thats a very odd situation to get attacked in, is it a night bus? There are so many witnesses usually unless the bus is very quiet, I would make a scene to get other people on the bus to notice what is happening or is about to happen.

I pictured your scenario like this:

You are sitting on a pretty empty bus, there are many available seats, the fact that the person sits next to you when there are many other places to sit is alarming in itself so you know something is going down. Move immediately, you know its gonna be bad because he had so many other seats to choose from. Keep eye contact with him as you sit down elsewhere to show you are aware of his intentions and there is no way in hell he is going to go through with it. Think of the wild, gazelles and deer make themselves appear more powerful to show that they have no weakness so the predators will avoid them. I would also move close to the driver in this situation. No combat has happened, you have avoided it successfully (but of course things could be different, he or she could grab your arm or force you back down, which is where basic self defense comes in, arm bars and locks if you can or if you're untrained use the bottom of your palm where the wrist joins the hand to strike upwards at his or her nose, keep the tips of your fingers bent down and your thumb bent and hooked close to your palm. This is a very painful but simple technique and the initial instinct here is for them to hold their injured nose with both hands, releasing you at the same time. Also, punching with your fists incorrectly can injure you which is why the palm-hand (what I just showed you) is good as the bottom of the palm is the hardest part of the hand and cannot break easily) This is where you can make a break to the front of the bus, tell the driver, and your foe is defeated.
Trust me, the fact is stranger than fiction:

July 30, 9 p.m. (approx.) Attack takes place about 10 kilometres east of Portage La Prairie, Man.

* CBCNews.ca: 40-year-old suspect held in gruesome Manitoba bus killing

According to some of those on board, the bus driver ushered all the other passengers out of the bus while the attack was taking place and disabled the bus so it could not be driven away.

July 31, 1:38 a.m. Li allegedly broke a window on the bus, threw out a knife and scissors and then jumped out. He was immediately arrested by the RCMP.

Aug. 5 In a brief court appearance, Li's only words were to ask the judge "Please, kill me." He has so far refused legal help and has been ordered to have a psychiatric assessment.(citation)
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Posted 11/3/10

DomFortress wrote:


Chained_Angel wrote:


WhenDreamsDie wrote:

You're sitting on the bus and a large man sits in the seat with you forcefully wedging you between the window and himself. He attempts to assault you. (This really happens from time to time in our city and the driver seldom does anything about it other than occasionally pulling over and getting out of the bus to call the police and avoid an "incident".)


Hmm thats a very odd situation to get attacked in, is it a night bus? There are so many witnesses usually unless the bus is very quiet, I would make a scene to get other people on the bus to notice what is happening or is about to happen.

I pictured your scenario like this:

You are sitting on a pretty empty bus, there are many available seats, the fact that the person sits next to you when there are many other places to sit is alarming in itself so you know something is going down. Move immediately, you know its gonna be bad because he had so many other seats to choose from. Keep eye contact with him as you sit down elsewhere to show you are aware of his intentions and there is no way in hell he is going to go through with it. Think of the wild, gazelles and deer make themselves appear more powerful to show that they have no weakness so the predators will avoid them. I would also move close to the driver in this situation. No combat has happened, you have avoided it successfully (but of course things could be different, he or she could grab your arm or force you back down, which is where basic self defense comes in, arm bars and locks if you can or if you're untrained use the bottom of your palm where the wrist joins the hand to strike upwards at his or her nose, keep the tips of your fingers bent down and your thumb bent and hooked close to your palm. This is a very painful but simple technique and the initial instinct here is for them to hold their injured nose with both hands, releasing you at the same time. Also, punching with your fists incorrectly can injure you which is why the palm-hand (what I just showed you) is good as the bottom of the palm is the hardest part of the hand and cannot break easily) This is where you can make a break to the front of the bus, tell the driver, and your foe is defeated.
Trust me, the fact is stranger than fiction:

July 30, 9 p.m. (approx.) Attack takes place about 10 kilometres east of Portage La Prairie, Man.

* CBCNews.ca: 40-year-old suspect held in gruesome Manitoba bus killing

According to some of those on board, the bus driver ushered all the other passengers out of the bus while the attack was taking place and disabled the bus so it could not be driven away.

July 31, 1:38 a.m. Li allegedly broke a window on the bus, threw out a knife and scissors and then jumped out. He was immediately arrested by the RCMP.

Aug. 5 In a brief court appearance, Li's only words were to ask the judge "Please, kill me." He has so far refused legal help and has been ordered to have a psychiatric assessment.(citation)


luckily the average criminal isnt a phychotic killer just looking for blood. Which brings me to this point.-

However, my scenario for her isn't based on her expertises off the streets, but yours in the form of assassination using natural human elements.

And your last statement was from Aikido's philosophy of "true victory is mastery over oneself" isn't it? As a warning of overextending yourself will leave you open for counterattack.


Assassination is not a self defense situation. When you get suckered punched, you get sucker punched. when someone gets u off guard, you get caught. When someone assassinates you, you get killed.

The only thing to do when someone attacks your blind spot is to get hit and react afterwords, assuming your still conscious or alive. Which is why learning how to get hit, give a hit, and having a strong mentality is important in combat.

That's hard to learn in one semester or week of a self defense class. Which is why i prefer martial arts classes designed for the street. Because violence is ever evolving and changing. Technology is always improving and the bad guys are always getting smarter. One hour of self defense is meaningless. It should be a part of your everyday life. peace over war
Posted 11/3/10

JJT2 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Trust me, the fact is stranger than fiction:

July 30, 9 p.m. (approx.) Attack takes place about 10 kilometres east of Portage La Prairie, Man.

* CBCNews.ca: 40-year-old suspect held in gruesome Manitoba bus killing

According to some of those on board, the bus driver ushered all the other passengers out of the bus while the attack was taking place and disabled the bus so it could not be driven away.

July 31, 1:38 a.m. Li allegedly broke a window on the bus, threw out a knife and scissors and then jumped out. He was immediately arrested by the RCMP.

Aug. 5 In a brief court appearance, Li's only words were to ask the judge "Please, kill me." He has so far refused legal help and has been ordered to have a psychiatric assessment.(citation)


luckily the average criminal isnt a phychotic killer just looking for blood. Which brings me to this point.-

However, my scenario for her isn't based on her expertises off the streets, but yours in the form of assassination using natural human elements.

And your last statement was from Aikido's philosophy of "true victory is mastery over oneself" isn't it? As a warning of overextending yourself will leave you open for counterattack.


Assassination is not a self defense situation. When you get suckered punched, you get sucker punched. when someone gets u off guard, you get caught. When someone assassinates you, you get killed.

And the sad thing is, individuals like him are situational sociopaths; they became like this due to themselves unable to cope with societal pressure:

October/November 2004 Shows up at Grant Memorial Baptist Church in Winnipeg looking for work and is hired as a night custodian. Stays there for about six months.

Summer 2005 Li takes a job as a forklift operator for Midland Foods on Nairn Ave. in Winnipeg. His wife is working in restaurants and begins attending Grant Memorial Church on her own, according to Tom Castor, the minister at Grant Memorial.

2006 Vince Li leaves his wife and moves to Edmonton.

2007 At some point in 2007, Li is granted Canadian citizenship, court was told. That means he had been living and working in Canada for at least three years without incident.

July 2007–April 2008 Works for an Edmonton distribution company delivering newspapers.

In Edmonton, Li lived in a 300-square-foot basement apartment at 8322 Jasper Ave. and then a larger 16th-floor apartment in a building nearby, on 90th Street near Jasper, the CBC found.

January to June 2008 Works at the Clairview mall Wal-Mart in Edmonton as a janitor, mechanic and later as a cashier. Mostly kept to himself, though staff there said he was let go after a disagreement with a fellow employee, the Edmonton Journal reported.

July 2008 Returns to his newspaper delivery job.

Morning of July 28, 2008 Li delivers his last set of newspapers.

Midnight of July 28 In Edmonton, boards Greyhound bus bound for Winnipeg.(citation)
As it turns out, immigrants like himself, who aren't integrating to the relatively more liberal and secular society that's Canada, developed learned helplessness because of their lack of emotional work, which was stemmed from their patriarchy childhood upbringing.
Posted 11/4/10


I generally avoid busses all together but if I must be on the bus I do try to get into a spot that is easier to avoid the pervs. It only happened to me once and he had one arm pinned so, since he was so much bigger than me (I'm only 5ft tall and 90pounds) I used the only other hand I had to grab his privates and squeeze as hard as I possibly could until he threw me out into the aisle to get the "crazy woman off him". The other passengers did nothing which I hear is fairly common. When I spoke to the driver he said the guy is a homeless dude and that stuff like this happens all the time with the homeless who ride our inner city busses. They just like to terrorize the other riders because they know they can. He said they very seldom actually "hurt" anyone; just intimidate people or maybe feel up a woman or masturbate using some females hand by force now and then. The driver seemed to think it was nothing more serious than a prank would be. The guy got detained after I called, while still on the bus, to report it but he was back out the next day when I drove to the mission because he waved at me as I drove into the lot.
Posted 11/4/10
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After speaking to the driver and also to other women who live in the area and ride the bus on a regular basis I learned that most of the time the bus is fairly full, the attacker is most often a mentally unstable homeless person or a gang member. The other passengers either ignore the assualt or simply watch as it happens. Sometimes, if the assault is severe the driver will actually leave the bus. Thats how it is here on our downtown busses any time of day. I also know from experience that in Japan when the busses get crowded day or night, there is the problem of being felt up even when standing. I don't know where you live that this would be an uncommon thing but Kudos to your bus system if they can keep the crazies under control better than ours can.
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