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Posted 10/31/10 , edited 10/31/10

Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:



It remains to be seen, but lower taxes is a core republican belief, so probably taxes will go down.
And what makes lowering taxes an objectively moral thing to do? When the Republicans could just be saying that without good reason nor conscience, for they want a government that's just as irresponsible and unregulated as their constituents and lobbies are.


But it lowers the burden on the economy and will allow job creation. Unless your saying you support 1 in 7 Americans being in poverty because of unemployment.
Enough with your straw man logical fallacy, unrealistic entitlement claim, unproven hypothesis, and false accusation. The outsourcing of manufacturing jobs has nothing to do with taxes, but with wage difference between the developed and developing worlds. The so-called "burden" of economy was caused by Wall Street's own mismanagement within credit loans, due to a lack of government regulation in the first place. The current unemployment rate within the US is every one in ten, because the current trend of corporate job market growth is part-time service work. And it still got nothing to do with raising taxes in order to pay for the stimulus package and war in the Middle East, or do you actually think that a capitalistic economy is gonna pay for itself producing mostly the inessentials: wars, Mc.D jobs, and overproduction?
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Posted 10/31/10 , edited 10/31/10

DomFortress wrote:

Enough with your straw man logical fallacy, unrealistic entitlement claim, unproven hypothesis, and false accusation. The outsourcing of manufacturing jobs has nothing to do with taxes, but with wage difference between the developed and developing worlds. The so-called "burden" of economy was caused by Wall Street's own mismanagement within credit loans, due to a lack of government regulation in the first place. The current unemployment rate within the US is every one in ten, because the current trend of corporate job market growth is part-time service work. And it still got nothing to do with raising taxes in order to pay for the stimulus package and war in the Middle East, or do you actually think that a capitalistic economy is gonna pay for itself producing mostly the inessentials: wars, Mc.D jobs, and overproduction?


Unproven ? That's just plain denial bro. Oh its well proven that lowering taxes and regulation of business creates jobs, your obviously have never run a business and have no idea how business works. So its ok your just ignorant. But thats your right.

Regan -> 16 million jobs
Bush -> 8 million jobs

It should be common sense that when you burden the people who create the jobs with taxes they stop creating jobs and stop investing.

In fact higher taxes and higher regulations on business has killed jobs in my state. Businesses are fleeing my state in groves to get away from high taxes and high regulations taking tens of thousands of jobs with them.

Another example of those is New Jersey. New Jersey decided it would be a great idea to do a millionaires tax. Well what happened, businesses fled the state and the state lost 70 billion dollars in revenue and thousands of jobs as a result of those businesses leaving.

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/02/nj_loses_70b_in_wealth_over_fo.html

Your ignorance about economics and business is staggering lol.
Posted 10/31/10

Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

Enough with your straw man logical fallacy, unrealistic entitlement claim, unproven hypothesis, and false accusation. The outsourcing of manufacturing jobs has nothing to do with taxes, but with wage difference between the developed and developing worlds. The so-called "burden" of economy was caused by Wall Street's own mismanagement within credit loans, due to a lack of government regulation in the first place. The current unemployment rate within the US is every one in ten, because the current trend of corporate job market growth is part-time service work. And it still got nothing to do with raising taxes in order to pay for the stimulus package and war in the Middle East, or do you actually think that a capitalistic economy is gonna pay for itself producing mostly the inessentials: wars, Mc.D jobs, and overproduction?


Unproven ? That's just plain denial bro. Oh its well proven that lowering taxes and regulation of business creates jobs, your obviously have never run a business and have no idea how business works. So its ok your just ignorant. But thats your right.

Regan -> 16 million jobs
Bush -> 8 million jobs


It should be common sense that when you burden the people who create the jobs with taxes they stop creating jobs and stop investing.

In fact higher taxes and higher regulations on business has killed jobs in my state. Businesses are fleeing my state in groves to get away from high taxes and high regulations taking tens of thousands of jobs with them.

Another example of those is New Jersey. New Jersey decided it would be a great idea to do a millionaires tax. Well what happened, businesses fled the state and the state lost 70 billion dollars in revenue and thousands of jobs as a result of those businesses leaving.

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/02/nj_loses_70b_in_wealth_over_fo.html

Your ignorance about economics and business is staggering lol.
"Commonsense" or not, it's you who can't tell the differences between the working class and means of production, private property ownerships, nor distribution of wealth:

“The wealth is not being replaced,” said John Havens, who directed the study. “It’s above and beyond the general trend that is affecting the rest of the northeast.”

This was not always the case. The study – the first on interstate wealth migration in the country — noted the state actually saw an influx of $98 billion in the five years preceding 2004. The exodus of wealth, then, local experts and economists concluded, was a reaction to a series of changes in the state’s tax structure — including increases in the income, sales, property and “millionaire” taxes.

“This study makes it crystal clear that New Jersey’s tax policies are resulting in a significant decline in the state’s wealth,” said Dennis Bone, chairman of the New Jersey Chamber of Commerce and president of Verizon New Jersey.

The report was commissioned by the state Chamber of Commerce and the Community Foundation of New Jersey to study the effects of wealth migration on charitable giving after executives noticed more affluent philanthropists were moving away. Wealth includes assets such as real estate, stocks, bonds, 401ks, mutual funds and vehicles.

But economists say there are many other implications for the state’s financial health.

Wealthy residents are a key driver for everything from job creation and consumer spending to the real estate market and the state budget, said Jim Hughes, dean of the Edward J. Bloustein School of Planning and Public Policy at Rutgers University. In New Jersey, the top 1 percent of taxpayers pay more than 40 percent of the state’s income tax, he said.

“That’s probably why we have these massive income shortfalls in the state budget, especially this year,” he said.

Until the tax structure is improved, he said, “we’ll probably see a continuation of the trend, until there are no more high-wealth individuals left.”
(citation: yours)
So unless you're one of those "affluent philanthropists" or "wealthy residents" who can just live off on their assets without them actually working, it doesn't concern you. Furthermore if you like low wage service jobs, there are those who are willing to work for even lower. Finally since you're not the top 1% taxpayers, your government has no interest in what little that you actually own. In the meantime those wealthy capitalists will just pick themselves up and leave, while they left your government with their bills just because they can.
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Posted 10/31/10

DomFortress wrote:

So unless you're one of those "affluent philanthropists" or "wealthy residents" who can just live off on their assets without them actually working, it doesn't concern you. Furthermore if you like low wage service jobs, there are those who are willing to work for even lower. Finally since you're not the top 1% taxpayers, your government has no interest in what little that you actually own. In the meantime those wealthy capitalists will just pick themselves up and leave, while they left your government with their bills just because they can.


Its the states responsibility to remember that its income comes from businesses. If the state adopts polices that are unfriendly to businesses they will leave and it will effect the states budged ~ Common sense. Businesses can create jobs and grow wealth anywhere, why do it in a state that taxes you too much. Why do it in a state thats unfriendly to business. Of course they leave, the state takes too much of their money and makes it impossible for them to operate. So its only natural that they leave.

Again common sense which isn't so common apparently.
Posted 10/31/10 , edited 10/31/10

Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

So unless you're one of those "affluent philanthropists" or "wealthy residents" who can just live off on their assets without them actually working, it doesn't concern you. Furthermore if you like low wage service jobs, there are those who are willing to work for even lower. Finally since you're not the top 1% taxpayers, your government has no interest in what little that you actually own. In the meantime those wealthy capitalists will just pick themselves up and leave, while they left your government with their bills just because they can.


Its the states responsibility to remember that its income comes from businesses. If the state adopts polices that are unfriendly to businesses they will leave and it will effect the states budged ~ Common sense. Businesses can create jobs and grow wealth anywhere, why do it in a state that taxes you too much. Why do it in a state thats unfriendly to business. Of course they leave, the state takes too much of their money and makes it impossible for them to operate. So its only natural that they leave.

Again common sense which isn't so common apparently.
Wealthy Individuals aren't "businesses", stupid. They're being taxed by what they owned as "assets", not what they do for a living as business:

The report was commissioned by the state Chamber of Commerce and the Community Foundation of New Jersey to study the effects of wealth migration on charitable giving after executives noticed more affluent philanthropists were moving away. Wealth includes assets such as real estate, stocks, bonds, 401ks, mutual funds and vehicles.(citation: yours)
In other words, what they want that's outside of their businesses are being taxed.
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Posted 11/2/10 , edited 11/2/10

Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

So unless you're one of those "affluent philanthropists" or "wealthy residents" who can just live off on their assets without them actually working, it doesn't concern you. Furthermore if you like low wage service jobs, there are those who are willing to work for even lower. Finally since you're not the top 1% taxpayers, your government has no interest in what little that you actually own. In the meantime those wealthy capitalists will just pick themselves up and leave, while they left your government with their bills just because they can.


Its the states responsibility to remember that its income comes from businesses. If the state adopts polices that are unfriendly to businesses they will leave and it will effect the states budged ~ Common sense. Businesses can create jobs and grow wealth anywhere, why do it in a state that taxes you too much. Why do it in a state thats unfriendly to business. Of course they leave, the state takes too much of their money and makes it impossible for them to operate. So its only natural that they leave.

Again common sense which isn't so common apparently.



Well, just a small point- States can create Jobs as well. And those jobs provide wages, causing an increase in purchase, and with more purchases, there will be more demand, and a need for more jobs, &c. Or at least how it should ideally work.

Also, Common Sense is a term I utterly detest- sense shared by the Common. 1500 years ago, common sense told us that the sun rotated around the Earth and that all humans came from the union of Mr Adam and Ms Eve.
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Posted 11/2/10 , edited 11/2/10

longfenglim wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

So unless you're one of those "affluent philanthropists" or "wealthy residents" who can just live off on their assets without them actually working, it doesn't concern you. Furthermore if you like low wage service jobs, there are those who are willing to work for even lower. Finally since you're not the top 1% taxpayers, your government has no interest in what little that you actually own. In the meantime those wealthy capitalists will just pick themselves up and leave, while they left your government with their bills just because they can.


Its the states responsibility to remember that its income comes from businesses. If the state adopts polices that are unfriendly to businesses they will leave and it will effect the states budged ~ Common sense. Businesses can create jobs and grow wealth anywhere, why do it in a state that taxes you too much. Why do it in a state thats unfriendly to business. Of course they leave, the state takes too much of their money and makes it impossible for them to operate. So its only natural that they leave.

Again common sense which isn't so common apparently.



Well, just a small point- States can create Jobs as well. And those jobs provide wages, causing an increase in purchase, and with more purchases, there will be more demand, and a need for more jobs, &c. Or at least how it should ideally work.

Also, Common Sense is a term I utterly detest- sense shared by the Common. 1500 years ago, common sense told us that the sun rotated around the Earth and that all humans came from the union of Mr Adam and Ms Eve.


States can't create jobs without businesses.

Businesses = States income.

If the state adopts policies that chase businesses away. The states budget suffers and the state will have to downsize and kill jobs as a result.

A perfect example is New Jersey. New Jersey adopted anti businesses policies and as a result they departed and the state lost 70 billion in revenue.

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/02/nj_loses_70b_in_wealth_over_fo.html
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Posted 11/2/10

Allhailodin wrote:


longfenglim wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

So unless you're one of those "affluent philanthropists" or "wealthy residents" who can just live off on their assets without them actually working, it doesn't concern you. Furthermore if you like low wage service jobs, there are those who are willing to work for even lower. Finally since you're not the top 1% taxpayers, your government has no interest in what little that you actually own. In the meantime those wealthy capitalists will just pick themselves up and leave, while they left your government with their bills just because they can.


Its the states responsibility to remember that its income comes from businesses. If the state adopts polices that are unfriendly to businesses they will leave and it will effect the states budged ~ Common sense. Businesses can create jobs and grow wealth anywhere, why do it in a state that taxes you too much. Why do it in a state thats unfriendly to business. Of course they leave, the state takes too much of their money and makes it impossible for them to operate. So its only natural that they leave.

Again common sense which isn't so common apparently.



Well, just a small point- States can create Jobs as well. And those jobs provide wages, causing an increase in purchase, and with more purchases, there will be more demand, and a need for more jobs, &c. Or at least how it should ideally work.

Also, Common Sense is a term I utterly detest- sense shared by the Common. 1500 years ago, common sense told us that the sun rotated around the Earth and that all humans came from the union of Mr Adam and Ms Eve.


States can't create jobs without businesses.

Businesses = States income.

If the state adopts policies that chase businesses away. The states budget suffers and the state will have to downsize and kill jobs as a result.

A perfect example is New Jersey. New Jersey adopted anti businesses policies and as a result they departed and the state lost 70 billion in revenue.

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/02/nj_loses_70b_in_wealth_over_fo.html


Well, I was not arguing that it may work- I'm just saying that the government can create jobs as well as businesses, ie the New Deal.
Posted 11/2/10

Allhailodin wrote:



States can't create jobs without businesses.

Businesses = States income.

If the state adopts policies that chase businesses away. The states budget suffers and the state will have to downsize and kill jobs as a result.

A perfect example is New Jersey. New Jersey adopted anti businesses policies and as a result they departed and the state lost 70 billion in revenue.

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/02/nj_loses_70b_in_wealth_over_fo.html
What is public social work?

And STFU, you liar.
Posted 11/2/10
The large majority of political promises are simply "pie crust promises", easily made and just as easily broken. I know of very few people who honestly believe otherwise. In actuality our President has very little real power to change anything on his own no matter how badly he wants to. He must depend on pushing his ideas through mounds of red tape and political back rooms and it's a painstaking process. Even after he manages to get an idea pushed through it often takes ten years or more for the effects to be seen or felt by the general public. In my opinion we seldom see the true value be it good or bad of a Presidents time in office until after they are no longer in office even if they manage to hold the office for the full 8 years. I don't think there's any party differences in this "delay of results" but it seems to me to be the way things work. Maybe I'm a bit jaded because I've been too close to too many politicians but that's the way I see it.
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Posted 11/2/10

longfenglim wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


longfenglim wrote:


Allhailodin wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

So unless you're one of those "affluent philanthropists" or "wealthy residents" who can just live off on their assets without them actually working, it doesn't concern you. Furthermore if you like low wage service jobs, there are those who are willing to work for even lower. Finally since you're not the top 1% taxpayers, your government has no interest in what little that you actually own. In the meantime those wealthy capitalists will just pick themselves up and leave, while they left your government with their bills just because they can.


Its the states responsibility to remember that its income comes from businesses. If the state adopts polices that are unfriendly to businesses they will leave and it will effect the states budged ~ Common sense. Businesses can create jobs and grow wealth anywhere, why do it in a state that taxes you too much. Why do it in a state thats unfriendly to business. Of course they leave, the state takes too much of their money and makes it impossible for them to operate. So its only natural that they leave.

Again common sense which isn't so common apparently.



Well, just a small point- States can create Jobs as well. And those jobs provide wages, causing an increase in purchase, and with more purchases, there will be more demand, and a need for more jobs, &c. Or at least how it should ideally work.

Also, Common Sense is a term I utterly detest- sense shared by the Common. 1500 years ago, common sense told us that the sun rotated around the Earth and that all humans came from the union of Mr Adam and Ms Eve.


States can't create jobs without businesses.

Businesses = States income.

If the state adopts policies that chase businesses away. The states budget suffers and the state will have to downsize and kill jobs as a result.

A perfect example is New Jersey. New Jersey adopted anti businesses policies and as a result they departed and the state lost 70 billion in revenue.

http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2010/02/nj_loses_70b_in_wealth_over_fo.html


Well, I was not arguing that it may work- I'm just saying that the government can create jobs as well as businesses, ie the New Deal.


Government jobs can't exist without private sector jobs. The private sector = the governments income.
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