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America is doomed. The master plan revelaed.
Posted 10/17/10 , edited 10/17/10

babbo wrote:

Yay for over generalized conspiracy theory rants!

As any teacher would say: where are your sources?

Talking in vague generalities without any examples to back up your theories really kills what little credibility your argument has.

It's like Christine O'donell who on the campaign trail could easily talk to crowd but come debate time can't even name a recent supreme court decision off the top of her head.



If you don't know what is happening in the American society, that's your problem, not mine. I don't need to provide facts, they are already out there for anyone to find. If I wanted to create a conspiracy thread I'd start one about the "illuminati"

I only write about things that I learn. You know, the whole general knowledge and common sense trend that's going on... Whether people believe it or not is subjective to each person. However it would be pretty damn difficult to pull this kind of thing out of my ass.

These "theories" that I speak of are why we had the Million man march, the Tea party, and the upcoming Restoring sanity rally. Or are all those spawned by conspiracy theories also? You could even argue that existence is just one big conspiracy, but that doesn't help much.

Here are some set facts of life that you need to study up on to have an better understanding of the subject that I talk about...

1: Socialism
2: Communism
3: Capitalism
4: Police state
5: Fascism
6: Moderate
7:Liberalism
8:Neo-liberalism ^ same thing as capitalism
9:Conservatism
7: Theory
8: Ideology
9: Mixed economy
10: Authoritarian
11: Libertarian



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Posted 10/17/10 , edited 10/17/10


The burden of proof does lie with you though. In debate, the side that presents the argument needs to present sources backing their argument. You must assume that your target audience is completely ignorant or you end up with this.

I didn't ask for proof because I do know what is going on outside of my little bubble. Apparently this guy does not, or he doesn't care. If you want him to care then provide examples for him.

Of course he has also fallen under the ad Hominem fallacy by attacking you instead of trying to disprove your statement.
Posted 10/17/10 , edited 10/17/10

lostcauz wrote:



The burden of proof does lie with you though. In debate, the side that presents the argument needs to present sources backing their argument. You must assume that your target audience is completely ignorant or you end up with this.

I didn't ask for proof because I do know what is going on outside of my little bubble. Apparently this guy does not, or he doesn't care. If you want him to care then provide examples for him.


Heres some proof I could find on the fly...

It is a fact that the military is dressing up as anarchists during peaceful protests and inciting violence in order to enable the riot police to silence the protests. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCVIzsNeGwo Shows militants pretending to be anarchists. Plenty of eye witness proves that they go back to the military base after provoking violence to shut down the rally. This was not a riot! Also, the media was "PAID" not to get involved so nobody would find out about this excessive policing of a peaceful rally. This was a clear violation of our civil rights.


It is a fact that the government is attempting to abolish the 2nd amendment by working around it and making just about 99% of the law ineffective. You hear about this just about every month on the news... It's a pretty hot topic.

It is a fact that just yesterday, a man found a FBI GPS tracking device under his car, the FBI then came to his home, and demanded him to give it back. There FBI argues that it is within their rights to track anybody at any time. They are also arguing the case that profiling in necessary to prevent terrorism. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101017/ap_on_re_us/us_gps_tracking_warrants

Big brother is real, and it is getting bigger. It's official name and legalization is the Patriot act. If you can't see that, I am so sorry babbo.

Am I the proof provider or what XD
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Posted 10/17/10 , edited 10/17/10


eh. I'd be perfectly willing to rip to shreds if there was any substance to his argument. I have a younger brother who rants like this all the time. He at least knows his history though, even if he cherry picks it. I'm really just asking him to turn this into something worth debating rather than a circular rant.



Until you can back up an assertion with fact it is still nothing more than an assertion.

You're making rather large and sweeping statements and not backing them up with fact.

This whole idea that general knowledge and "common sense" are all that are needed to understand something as complex as the motivations and interactions of a government that supports and monitors a population of over 300 million people is ridiculous.

Your use of the word police state is nothing short of ridiculous. Please go and take a look at some actual police states before throwing the phrase around. The idea that corporations backing the quelling of riots is something "new" is naive and ignorant, but nevertheless, it would be a semi-credible argument if you actually backed it up with actual events rather than generalized examples.

You're coming off as no better than a fox news pundit, and they at least do quote sources even if they cherry pick them to the extreme.

Still, that's not even the worst thing about your rant. What's really bad about it is the simple fact that it is nothing more than a rant. You are railing against the police state and the shadowy hand of the financial sector, but you never once suggest what can be done. Even a fox news correspondent at least aims their rant toward accomplishing something.

Oh, and actually it really wouldn't be that hard to pull it out of anything's ass. Seriously. Plant, animal, vegetable or mineral. You name it I could probably find an ass to pull a silly generalized rant like this out of.
Posted 10/17/10 , edited 10/17/10

babbo wrote:

Until you can back up an assertion with fact it is still nothing more than an assertion.

You're making rather large and sweeping statements and not backing them up with fact.

This whole idea that general knowledge and "common sense" are all that are needed to understand something as complex as the motivations and interactions of a government that supports and monitors a population of over 300 million people is ridiculous.

Your use of the word police state is nothing short of ridiculous. Please go and take a look at some actual police states before throwing the phrase around. The idea that corporations backing the quelling of riots is something "new" is naive and ignorant, but nevertheless, it would be a semi-credible argument if you actually backed it up with actual events rather than generalized examples.

You're coming off as no better than a fox news pundit, and they at least do quote sources even if they cherry pick them to the extreme.

Still, that's not even the worst thing about your rant. What's really bad about it is the simple fact that it is nothing more than a rant. You are railing against the police state and the shadowy hand of the financial sector, but you never once suggest what can be done. Even a fox news correspondent at least aims their rant toward accomplishing something.

Oh, and actually it really wouldn't be that hard to pull it out of anything's ass. Seriously. Plant, animal, vegetable or mineral. You name it I could probably find an ass to pull a silly generalized rant like this out of.


I just gave you links... Plenty of links. Also, I never said we are in a police state, I said we are heading towards one. Do not miss Interpret my article. I have provided my "facts".

Fun fact: Fox news is run by giant corporations slinging huge wads of cash as well.

You may not like my rant, but remember that's you.

You know I am very generous to even bother providing proof to someone who doesn't bother understanding the way society works to begin with. Because any half knowledgeable individual would understand that these "assertions" hold true. Irregardless of how age old you may call them.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither would you expect a fascist nation to be. Even in nations who have it worse then us, for example soviet Russia, when Joseph stalin was in charge. He had the choice of feeding his people, or building a bomb, he decided to build a damn bomb. Even then, there would have been people stating how wonderful the nation was, because the newspaper told them it was so!

There's just noooooo way the press could ever be bought to promote the government's lies! Absolutely not!!! Proof that our first amendment is beginning failing us is all around. You just have to look.
Posted 10/17/10 , edited 10/17/10

babbo wrote:



eh. I'd be perfectly willing to rip to shreds if there was any substance to his argument. I have a younger brother who rants like this all the time. He at least knows his history though, even if he cherry picks it. I'm really just asking him to turn this into something worth debating rather than a circular rant.

Until you can back up an assertion with fact it is still nothing more than an assertion.



Sigh...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCVIzsNeGwo
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101017/ap_on_re_us/us_gps_tracking_warrants

You assuming that I am calling America a police state to begin with is nothing short of ridiculous... And maybe you should listen to your younger brother... He sounds pretty smart.
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Posted 10/17/10 , edited 10/17/10
Please do not call this an article

AHAHAHA! You quoted infowars o,o

I think I'm going to have to end this after this post. What people that follow those kind of sources don't seem to understand is that real journalists wouldn't pass up a stories that show up on sites like those if they were true. Conspiracy theorists thrive on the assertion that they are the only ones uncovering the truth since they can simply retort that anyone that asks for credible sources is part of the greater conspiracy and of course, hate our freedom. Just like cows. Cows hate our freedom. Seriously.

and even the idea the we are spiraling down into a police state is ridiculous. It's also a common thread of thought that comes out of the masses during a time a crisis. Look at any panic, depression, recession etc., etc. and you will always see people talking about how the country is degrading in one way or another. It cracks me up how people actually think that this whole "let's take back America" thing is something new or even creative.

If you can say that you aren't a playing with conspiracy theory while quoting infowars as your source I'm not sure if there's even a point in going any further here o,o

Your example of the GPS device actually contradicts your argument in that parts of the Government are actively trying to stop the practice. Of course , I'm sure that according to your "general knowledge" it's all some sort of big act so that they can justify their actions.

And please, lets not take the whole 2nd amendment debate in here. This thread is ridiculous enough.

Lol you admitted it was a rant. And with that, my job is done here.
Posted 10/17/10 , edited 10/17/10

babbo wrote:

Please do not call this an article

AHAHAHA! You quoted infowars o,o

I think I'm going to have to end this after this post. What people that follow those kind of sources don't seem to understand is that real journalists wouldn't pass up a stories that show up on sites like those if they were true. Conspiracy theorists thrive on the assertion that they are the only ones uncovering the truth since they can simply retort that anyone that asks for credible sources is part of the greater conspiracy and of course, hate our freedom. Just like cows. Cows hate our freedom. Seriously.

If you can say that you aren't a playing with conspiracy theory while quoting infowars as your source I'm not sure if there's even a point in going any further here o,o

Your example of the GPS device actually contradicts your argument in that parts of the Government are actively trying to stop the practice. Of course , I'm sure that according to your "general knowledge" it's all some sort of big act so that they can justify their actions.

And please, lets not take the whole 2nd amendment debate in here. This thread is ridiculous enough.

Lol you admitted it was a rant. And with that, my job is done here.


Infowars wouldn't have been banned if it was a mere "conspiracy theory" . Just the same that books like Fahrenheit 451, and Animal farm wouldn't have been banned if they were just fairy tales. Do you know what rants and articles have in common? They both require somebody who is articulate to make them. I never claimed that my article was not from a subjective view point.

Sorry to say, but you have not accomplished anything in this thread. I accomplished a great deal by getting a nice conversation going. Perhaps if the title of my thread was. "Not a rant", I may have given you a cookie. And I am sure you love your freedom, cow and all XD

My GPS example somehow contradicts what I said about government trying to stop the practice? Wait... you got something COMPLETELY backwards.

Also my article is not based off of info wars... It incorporate small pieces of it. One great skill I have learned over time, is how to play devil's advocate. Even you can not be positive whether or not I full heartidly agree or advocate what I am writing on. Hence invalidating any personal attacks... Besides, what you are doing is not proper, and you have already lost most of your credibility from an arguments standpoint.

However it's okay... Not everybody's forte is comprehension. Also, you have yet to discredit anything I have said...

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Posted 10/17/10 , edited 10/17/10

babbo wrote:

Please do not call this an article

AHAHAHA! You quoted infowars o,o

I think I'm going to have to end this after this post. What people that follow those kind of sources don't seem to understand is that real journalists wouldn't pass up a stories that show up on sites like those if they were true. Conspiracy theorists thrive on the assertion that they are the only ones uncovering the truth since they can simply retort that anyone that asks for credible sources is part of the greater conspiracy and of course, hate our freedom. Just like cows. Cows hate our freedom. Seriously.

and even the idea the we are spiraling down into a police state is ridiculous. It's also a common thread of thought that comes out of the masses during a time a crisis. Look at any panic, depression, recession etc., etc. and you will always see people talking about how the country is degrading in one way or another. It cracks me up how people actually think that this whole "let's take back America" thing is something new or even creative.

If you can say that you aren't a playing with conspiracy theory while quoting infowars as your source I'm not sure if there's even a point in going any further here o,o

Your example of the GPS device actually contradicts your argument in that parts of the Government are actively trying to stop the practice. Of course , I'm sure that according to your "general knowledge" it's all some sort of big act so that they can justify their actions.

And please, lets not take the whole 2nd amendment debate in here. This thread is ridiculous enough.

Lol you admitted it was a rant. And with that, my job is done here.


Wow, bowing out now? From what I've read, you haven't done anything to discredit his rant. He has provided proof to some of his argument (the banks funding the military bit still hasn't been proven), and has catered to his audience.

You have done nothing but attack him, lumping him in with conspiracy theorists. You used the same fallacy that you tried to call him out on. If you want to debate learn how; if you want to be a dick, don't try to sound smart while doing it.
Posted 10/17/10 , edited 10/17/10
I'm the type who has become empathetic with America and it's problems. Yes, I understand the situation, but will not waste my time on worrying about something that was already bound to happen.
Posted 10/17/10
I live in a nation that lost its values, but it kept the weed.
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Posted 10/17/10
Well, there is something I'd like to add about banned sources.
I doubt they are banned for spreading truth, as the sources to those sources are not banned.
It's the presentation of the views in banned sources that incite conspiracy radicalism and tend to take it's message out of context;
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Posted 10/17/10
Time for the independant loner to insert another two cents, without giving a damn if I get attacked or called names or being falsly labeled. Prior to posting this...I did skim over the first post in this thread, and I just couldn't fight the temptation anymore to post in a political related thread.

You know without captialism, you wouldn't have 95% of what we use, eat, read, play, listen, or watch on a daily basis. You wouldn't have your job. You wouldn't have sports. You wouldn't have ANYTHING that we take for granted.

Maybe I haven't typed this enough, so I'll type it now. I am an independant conservative that does not stand for ether political party, since it's a Democan/Republicrat monopoly anyway.

Barrack Hussien Obama (yeah that's right, I said the middle name) is a noob president who is 50% media creation, since most of you never heard of him before running for office. Admit it. And the other 50% comes from special interests, george soros, and the weak ass spineless republican party who put up that RINO John "The Shame" McCain to purposly lose to this half-black current president---HE'S NOT THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT, BUT THE FIRST MIXED RACE PRESIDENT!! Research his birth mother if you don't believe me.

Anyway, america is doomed alright unless we the people stand up and fight back against this bullshit coming from our government. The way they pass bills in the middle of the night and not even telling us what is in these bills *coughobamacarecough*, turning us into a socialist nation. And before any of you jump on my case, George W Bush was somewhat of a socalist. Don't get me started on him, his FAIL of a war on the islamo facists (which our current noob president keeps reaching out to), or letting our finacial deficit get out of control (and Obama making it even worse!).

The tea parties (as in the REAL ones) is the only thing we have at this time to help us fight this crap coming out of the government.

That's all I have to say right now, and I haven't even warmed up yet. Don't make me. Oh and that "article" is more of an opinion piece than something of a journalistic nature. Sorry pal.

ItsMev 
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Posted 10/17/10

varnlestoff wrote:


ItsMev wrote:

Strong opinion you have there, pity there isn't a thing that can be done




Though the title was more intended as a attention grab. I will relate to this

It wouldn't be the first time that a nation either destroyed itself through the inside, or did so well that it invalidated individuality. Back in the day i'm sure people warned about the what was happening to Rome, all the while people said nonsense. A couple decades later Rome was filled with famine and disease, and over 90% of the roman empire had died off. That was the beginning of the dark ages. The largest society on earth crushed by the very rules that governed the people..


Humans are their own worst enemy, without a doubt we will wipe ourselves out one way or another.
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Posted 10/17/10
too complex to comprehend Dx
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