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Crunchyroll drops honorifics in simulcasts
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25 / M / Arnold Maryland
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Posted 10/21/10
Am I missing something? Whats the big deal in not seeing -sama, -chan at the end of english subbed sentences? You can obviously hear them so.....why does it matter?
Posted 10/21/10
I actually like the honorifics. It'd be a shame if it's removed completely from anime.
T-Rish 
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25 / F / Australia
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Posted 10/22/10

zakrr wrote:


T-Rish wrote:


velkyr wrote:


T-Rish wrote:

bring honorifics back!!!!! It shows us how close/far the relationship between the two characters areee... :(


Seriously? Watch the damn show, then you'll know how close they are.

Who really cares about honorifics? They hold no relevance in western society. Unless you are a jap-obsessed idiot walking around with a naruto forehead protector yelling "KAWAIIII" whenever you see something you like and acting like a complete douchebag, they hold no relevance to the rest of us.



Oh please. Don't hate on me just because of my liking honorifics. Its a part of Japanese culture so why should it be lost in translation? Leaving it out just westernizes the anime even more. Its also a sign of respect which is lost to most of the idiotic, disrespectful youngsters these days (mostly in western countries), which is why they don't get it. Keep your opinions to yourself next time instead of clashing with someone. It's immature to attack a person's personal opinion.

And no I'm not like one of "those" people. And what's wrong with them anyway? They just decide to show their love for anime and japanese culture more than most of us. You're on an anime site which probably consists of most of "those" kind of people, so your argument is irrelevant here.



Your 19, in my book thats a "youngster."


According to my memory your 22... or somewhere in the 20's so you should know better than someone younger than you telling you this. Maybe i should change that statement to "people who were brought up without the concept of respect".

And i'm one of those youngsters who was brought up to know and apply respect despite living in Western society. So count me out, thank you very much.

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Posted 10/22/10

Iam1vs100xp wrote:

Lately Crunchyroll has been getting more and more shows to simulcast which is a good thing in itself. They started off getting only a few shows and now are heading close to the 100% mark of all anime streamed but throughout this entire process a few things were lost in translation.

If you have been watching anything from this season you may have noticed by now that all of the honorifics have been taken out from the script. For those who do not know, honorifics are Japanese words such as chan, kun, san, sama, and dono. I am not 100% sure if this includes words such as senpai and sensei if they are still there then it is only a matter of time really. Naturally this also includes words such as onee-san and onii-chan just to name a few.

The reason for this is because the company that does most shows for Crunchyroll, MxMedia, has randomly decided to drop them this season and for all seasons in the future. They do everything except one or two shows on Crunchyroll so its only a matter of time before they end up doing every show and fansubbing slowly dieing this means you will never get your honorifics back. For those of you who enjoy having honorifics will forever be without them. Those other two shows that mxmedia is not doing should have all of the honorifics intact.

Honorifics in general give us a closer look at the relationship between the characters. Truthfully all of these terms can be translated into English without some loss of meaning and what is even worse is that many jokes will not make sense in English because they rely so heavily on the Japanese honorific system. Scripts are getting closer and closer to American DVD translation quality.

I'm wondering what everyone's take on this is since it probably will effect our anime watching for years to come. This is quite important to some people.

I'm quite concerned on why they did this without telling people. I think people should have a say on specific topic such as this.


tldr.
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Posted 10/22/10 , edited 10/22/10


Yes, I do believe that would be a good idea. Rash generalizations create nothing but trouble.



And no I'm not like one of "those" people. And what's wrong with them anyway? They just decide to show their love for anime and japanese culture more than most of us. You're on an anime site which probably consists of most of "those" kind of people, so your argument is irrelevant here.


Theirs plenty wrong with "thous people," there obnoxious and, for the most part, dumb as bricks. Urban dictionary has a pretty good summery:


Someone who thinks Japan is superior over EVERYTHING. A weeaboo speaks Wapanese (i.e. Kawaii neko!! Can I hug your neko-chan?). However they are not to be confused with someone who is still learning Japanese. A weeaboo will obsess over no more that ten anime/manga and then claim to know EVERYTHING there is to know about Japan.




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26 / F / Philippines
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Posted 10/22/10
its alright as long as i hear it
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Posted 10/22/10
I wished the would keep them! Respect for a person is hard to convey in English. I love that Japanese have a way to convey such respect and honor.
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Posted 10/22/10 , edited 10/22/10

aliciadale6969 wrote:

I wished the would keep them! Respect for a person is hard to convey in English. I love that Japanese have a way to convey such respect and honor.


Mr. and Miss, Sir and Mam?

Really, come on now. Use your head.
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Posted 10/22/10
The Mr. Mrs. sir and mama are far and few between any more. I was using my head. America as a society has lost the respect that Japanses can still convey. I can't tell you the last time I heard yes mama or sir said unless it was me doing it. People just don't do it any more.
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28 / M / Colorado, USA
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Posted 10/22/10

MR_Leach wrote:

Honorifics seriously annoy me. Maybe not so much in subs, but to be honest, it's really not necessary at all. As for people upset about subbers drifting from literal meanings...unless Japanese culture is absolutely fundamental to the plot, there's really no point in keeping Japanese allusions and references that aren't already generally understood by anime fans. It's actually quite refreshing and clever when a writer can take a reference meant for Japanese audiences and make it understandable for an English-speaking audience, whether it's fixing up a visual pun or brining up a similar analogy that folks can understand better instead of having to pause and read the entire history of the reference at the top of the screen. Sometimes, I know, the latter method is necessary, but if it can be cleverly enough avoided, then kudos to whoever fixed it up for our better understanding.

Everyone is so bent out of shape over preserving what they're referring to as necessary Japanese culture when really it is the understanding of the story and what is meant to come across in the dialogue that really needs to be preserved, and though someone is bound to call me lazy for saying this, it's made easier on watchers when they don't have to do follow-up research when they watch something.


Be mindful of how the Japanese culture is with regard to respect. Many are very mindful of being respectful and choose their words carefully to remain respectful. You don't even have to go far to find married couples that still call each other with honorifics added. So if someone were to speak to someone without using an honorific, it would be well noticed that person is not being attentive to being respectful.

With regards to "relevance", such an aspect is indeed relevant! This would be a component of character development.

I'll try to not go too far in this direction, but for the element of changing actual content per simplifying understanding: changing actual content of a work is vandalism of art, changing an artist's creation with one's own personal decision. Thus it is a matter I despise. But looking away from the vandalism, I still dislike it in that a part of why I like anime so much is the exposure to another culture. There is so much to be learned from anime aside from 'X is dangerous to the world' and 'Y is in love with Z'. Not to mention a lot of the settings of anime are derived from historical events, history than you wouldn't learn outside of japanese history classes. So I really feel winding up looking things up is proper.




zakrr wrote:


aliciadale6969 wrote:

I wished the would keep them! Respect for a person is hard to convey in English. I love that Japanese have a way to convey such respect and honor.


Mr. and Miss, Sir and Mam?

Really, come on now. Use your head.


Mister, the last time I heard english honorifics spoken, they sounded sarcastic and provoking. Aside from passing strangers that need to call something to attention, and the "doctor" honorific, they really don't have good use these days. They are far from being usable as a one-to-one translation of Japanese honorifics.
T-Rish 
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Posted 10/23/10 , edited 10/23/10

zakrr wrote:

Yes, I do believe that would be a good idea. Rash generalizations create nothing but trouble.


Yea, you should follow your own advice as well.





Theirs plenty wrong with "thous people," there obnoxious and, for the most part, dumb as bricks. Urban dictionary has a pretty good summery


You obviously haven't met very many. Again your generalizing the whole group for the few you've met. For your information, I go to one of the most prestigious universities in my country, and there is a whole club dedicated to "those people" and their anime, cosplay, etc. And let me tell you this, most of them are amazingly intelligent, and they would probably be able to step all over you. So yea, I'll repeat again, take your own advice. By the way, next time you want to reference something, give me an authentic, revised website which doesn't contain words that aren't even real (and god knows what you even looked up). And its pointless to reply since I'll just ignore you next time.




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29 / F / Edmonton, Alberta...
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Posted 10/23/10
I honestly don't know what the big deal is.. it's not like you can't hear them use the honorifics in the anime. It's simply that they haven't translated them in to the subtitles. There's a huge difference. You should be grateful you get these animes at all more importantly translated into English for you.
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Posted 10/23/10
Interesting. Well, it's odd for them to drop the honorific titles as they convey a lot of information on the social status and interpersonal relationships between the characters.
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Posted 10/23/10 , edited 10/23/10

T-Rish wrote:


zakrr wrote:

Yes, I do believe that would be a good idea. Rash generalizations create nothing but trouble.


Yea, you should follow your own advice as well.





Theirs plenty wrong with "thous people," there obnoxious and, for the most part, dumb as bricks. Urban dictionary has a pretty good summery


You obviously haven't met very many. Again your generalizing the whole group for the few you've met. For your information, I go to one of the most prestigious universities in my country, and there is a whole club dedicated to "those people" and their anime, cosplay, etc. And let me tell you this, most of them are amazingly intelligent, and they would probably be able to step all over you. So yea, I'll repeat again, take your own advice. By the way, next time you want to reference something, give me an authentic, revised website which doesn't contain words that aren't even real (and god knows what you even looked up). And its pointless to reply since I'll just ignore you next time.







I'll scratch off the dumb as bricks part but it doesn't change the fact that they are incredibly obnoxious.

Liking and enjoying anime is fine. But when people start going "KAWAII" it gets out of hand. Its irritating and makes you look, and sound, like a ignorant. I also think we had a bit of a misunderstanding. What I was referring to above were not anime "fans" in general, but rather, a very special breed of anime fans. The obnoxious 16 year old kind. Not the "anime's pretty chill man, you know Neon Genesis" kind. The "OMFG NARUTO IS SO FUCKING GREAT! ITS SO KAWAII DESU." That kind of fan.


And let me tell you this, most of them are amazingly intelligent, and they would probably be able to step all over you.


Resorting to petty insults are we? Tut, tut, I expect better from such a prestigious university student.

I shall anticipate your reply.

(Good luck with that "most prestigious universities in my country" thing. That holds up real well in a argument. Your social status, age, and school are meaningless on the internet.)






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24 / M / Dreamland
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Posted 10/23/10
Dropping honorifics from the subtitles alone will probably not affect most of us, but we too should consider anime lovers who have lost their hearing abilities. Having said so, these people will have to rely on the subtitles to get a firm understanding of the story. In order to understand the plot clearly, relationships between characters should be clarified. That is where honorifics come in.

Some of you may argue that those who have lost their sense of hearing may still understand the relationships between the characters clearly despite the absence of honorifics, but there isn't anything wrong with adding -kun, -chan, -san, -sama and etc. right? It gives a little more insight to the Japanese culture too, so perhaps there's more good in having the honorifics in the subtitles.
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