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Christianity- Can it truly be considered Monotheistic?
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Posted 11/5/10
The Christians, as I understand it, believes in a powerful, almighty God, that is the Abrahamic God, who exist both as a single entity- God, and as three entities- The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost, via the 'Trinity' Doctrine. Of course, not all Christains are 'Trinitarians', a majority of them are but there exist many denominations which aren't, and for the sake of simplicity, I will not bother to rufute that doctrine. Now this great and powerful One-and-Three God, the God of Good, is actively opposed by another, lesser God, Satan, Lucifer, Old Nick, Light-Bearer, Prince of Darkness, what have you, or the God of Evil, and that the end of the world, the Apocalypse is a sort of battle between the God of Good and the God of Evil, a sort of Ragnorok if you will, terminating with the eventual triumph of the God of Good. If I made any error, I pray that you correct me, for, in not being a practising Christian of any denomination, my theological understanding is bound to be faulty. Now, having said this, how can Christianity possibly be considered 'Monotheistic' when there exist a being vested with, though lesser, but still great and- dare say I- God-like powers, and who hold almost equal influence upon this world?
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Posted 11/5/10
Orwellian 'doublethink'?

There's only one god. the three in one with Satan in oposition is also true? I suppose you're asking the wrong person.
Posted 11/5/10 , edited 11/5/10

orangeflute wrote:

The Christians, as I understand it, believes in a powerful, almighty God, that is the Abrahamic God, who exist both as a single entity- God, and as three entities- The Father, The Son, and the Holy Ghost, via the 'Trinity' Doctrine. Of course, not all Christains are 'Trinitarians', a majority of them are but there exist many denominations which aren't, and for the sake of simplicity, I will not bother to rufute that doctrine. Now this great and powerful One-and-Three God, the God of Good, is actively opposed by another, lesser God, Satan, Lucifer, Old Nick, Light-Bearer, Prince of Darkness, what have you, or the God of Evil, and that the end of the world, the Apocalypse is a sort of battle between the God of Good and the God of Evil, a sort of Ragnorok if you will, terminating with the eventual triumph of the God of Good. If I made any error, I pray that you correct me, for, in not being a practising Christian of any denomination, my theological understanding is bound to be faulty. Now, having said this, how can Christianity possibly be considered 'Monotheistic' when there exist a being vested with, though lesser, but still great and- dare say I- God-like powers, and who hold almost equal influence upon this world?
As an outsider who doesn't practice Christianity, I think they would agree that although their religious teaching does acknowledge the existence of a lesser God, but since they only practice the worshiping of the one "True" God, thus they're practicing a monotheistic religion. But objectively they do held polytheistic view, IMHO.
Posted 11/5/10
There are three gods in Christianity. So the answer is; no.
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Posted 11/5/10
Okay, everyone! Here's my 2 cents worth!
This "three in one" concept may best understood in comparison to another 3 in one:
I, as a child of my parents, am called a daughter, as the marriage partner to my husband, I am known as a wife, & to my children, I'm mom.

This does NOT, however, make me 3 different people, right?
(Forget for the moment any references to multiple personalities & evil twins, please!!!)

So, if God has three different roles to fulfill, it shouldn't/wouldn't split Him into 3 different gods.

I'm done now- & probably won't respond to arguments of conflicting logics, okay?
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Posted 11/6/10 , edited 11/6/10

farmbird wrote:

Okay, everyone! Here's my 2 cents worth!
This "three in one" concept may best understood in comparison to another 3 in one:
I, as a child of my parents, am called a daughter, as the marriage partner to my husband, I am known as a wife, & to my children, I'm mom.

This does NOT, however, make me 3 different people, right?
(Forget for the moment any references to multiple personalities & evil twins, please!!!)

So, if God has three different roles to fulfill, it shouldn't/wouldn't split Him into 3 different gods.

I'm done now- & probably won't respond to arguments of conflicting logics, okay?


Well, your tuppence's worth is hardly worth a farthing concerning the argument I put forth, that is that Christains acknowledge that the Three-and-One Good God is opposed by a Lesser, but almost equally powerful Evil God, or the Deuce, the Serpent of Eden, the Fallen Angel, what-ever.
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Posted 11/6/10 , edited 11/6/10

orangeflute wrote:


farmbird wrote:

Okay, everyone! Here's my 2 cents worth!
This "three in one" concept may best understood in comparison to another 3 in one:
I, as a child of my parents, am called a daughter, as the marriage partner to my husband, I am known as a wife, & to my children, I'm mom.

This does NOT, however, make me 3 different people, right?
(Forget for the moment any references to multiple personalities & evil twins, please!!!)

So, if God has three different roles to fulfill, it shouldn't/wouldn't split Him into 3 different gods.

I'm done now- & probably won't respond to arguments of conflicting logics, okay?


Well, your tuppence's worth is hardly worth a farthing concerning the argument I put forth, that is that Christains acknowledge that the Three-and-One Good God is opposed by a Lesser, but almost equally powerful Evil God, or the Deuce, the Serpent of Eden, the Fallen Angel, what-ever.


And as a Bible believing Christian, I do not (emphasis for clarification only, no threat or offense intended) acknowledge the devil as a god. He's a god wanna be, this is what caused his demise, not only because he dared to assume himself as one, but also because he couldn't & fell "short"- right out of his original position as "head" archangel. See, angels, of which Lucifer/ Satan is one, are spiritual beings created by God. By all Judeo/Christian standards of which I'm aware, all agree there is only ONE GOD. Angels are not, never have been.
The Bible also describes the fallen one as the father of all lies, the deceiver, the author of death (please pardon my paraphrasing).
Got a Bible handy? Check out Ezekial 28:12-17, the words here are directly about Lucifer & the consequences of his actions.
I would be very willing to offer my (limited!!!) understanding & knowledge concerning your questions on such Biblical matters. We won't know if we don't ask & seek. Though you have raised this question, I will also benefit from reviewing my own thoughts on the matter & look forward to the comments & contributions of others. If ?s are asked in context of the Bible, my hope is they will be measured in the answers by the same. Introduction of other sources should be compared to a Biblical account fairly, if applicable.
I'm a firm believer in agreeing to disagree. We are all responsible for our thoughts & actions.

(& I said I wouldn't respond!!! What was I thinking?)
Posted 11/6/10

farmbird wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


farmbird wrote:

Okay, everyone! Here's my 2 cents worth!
This "three in one" concept may best understood in comparison to another 3 in one:
I, as a child of my parents, am called a daughter, as the marriage partner to my husband, I am known as a wife, & to my children, I'm mom.

This does NOT, however, make me 3 different people, right?
(Forget for the moment any references to multiple personalities & evil twins, please!!!)

So, if God has three different roles to fulfill, it shouldn't/wouldn't split Him into 3 different gods.

I'm done now- & probably won't respond to arguments of conflicting logics, okay?


Well, your tuppence's worth is hardly worth a farthing concerning the argument I put forth, that is that Christains acknowledge that the Three-and-One Good God is opposed by a Lesser, but almost equally powerful Evil God, or the Deuce, the Serpent of Eden, the Fallen Angel, what-ever.


And as a Bible believing Christian, I do not (emphasis for clarification only, no threat or offense intended) acknowledge the devil as a god. He's a god wanna be, this is what caused his demise, not only because he dared to assume himself as one, but also because he couldn't & fell "short"- right out of his original position as "head" archangel. See, angels, of which Lucifer/ Satan is one, are spiritual beings created by God. By all Judeo/Christian standards of which I'm aware, all agree there is only ONE GOD. Angels are not, never have been.
The Bible also describes the fallen one as the father of all lies, the deceiver, the author of death (please pardon my paraphrasing).
Got a Bible handy? Check out Ezekial 28:12-17, the words here are directly about Lucifer & the consequences of his actions.
I would be very willing to offer my (limited!!!) understanding & knowledge concerning your questions on such Biblical matters. We won't know if we don't ask & seek. Though you have raised this question, I will also benefit from reviewing my own thoughts on the matter & look forward to the comments & contributions of others. If ?s are asked in context of the Bible, my hope is they will be measured in the answers by the same. Introduction of other sources should be compared to a Biblical account fairly, if applicable.
I'm a firm believer in agreeing to disagree. We are all responsible for our thoughts & actions.

(& I said I wouldn't respond!!! What was I thinking?)


In Judaism, Satan is an accuser sent in the name of God to test the faith of men. That makes the most sense to me.
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Posted 11/6/10 , edited 11/6/10

farmbird wrote:


orangeflute wrote:


farmbird wrote:

Okay, everyone! Here's my 2 cents worth!
This "three in one" concept may best understood in comparison to another 3 in one:
I, as a child of my parents, am called a daughter, as the marriage partner to my husband, I am known as a wife, & to my children, I'm mom.

This does NOT, however, make me 3 different people, right?
(Forget for the moment any references to multiple personalities & evil twins, please!!!)

So, if God has three different roles to fulfill, it shouldn't/wouldn't split Him into 3 different gods.

I'm done now- & probably won't respond to arguments of conflicting logics, okay?


Well, your tuppence's worth is hardly worth a farthing concerning the argument I put forth, that is that Christains acknowledge that the Three-and-One Good God is opposed by a Lesser, but almost equally powerful Evil God, or the Deuce, the Serpent of Eden, the Fallen Angel, what-ever.


And as a Bible believing Christian, I do not (emphasis for clarification only, no threat or offense intended) acknowledge the devil as a god. He's a god wanna be, this is what caused his demise, not only because he dared to assume himself as one, but also because he couldn't & fell "short"- right out of his original position as "head" archangel. See, angels, of which Lucifer/ Satan is one, are spiritual beings created by God. By all Judeo/Christian standards of which I'm aware, all agree there is only ONE GOD. Angels are not, never have been.
The Bible also describes the fallen one as the father of all lies, the deceiver, the author of death (please pardon my paraphrasing).
Got a Bible handy? Check out Ezekial 28:12-17, the words here are directly about Lucifer & the consequences of his actions.
I would be very willing to offer my (limited!!!) understanding & knowledge concerning your questions on such Biblical matters. We won't know if we don't ask & seek. Though you have raised this question, I will also benefit from reviewing my own thoughts on the matter & look forward to the comments & contributions of others. If ?s are asked in context of the Bible, my hope is they will be measured in the answers by the same. Introduction of other sources should be compared to a Biblical account fairly, if applicable.
I'm a firm believer in agreeing to disagree. We are all responsible for our thoughts & actions.

(& I said I wouldn't respond!!! What was I thinking?)


A god by any other name...

Let us examine the qualities that make a god, by any other religion- that is a being that has control over a certain aspect of reality and/or nature, therefore deserving of worship, veneration, or fear.

Let us examine the qualities of Satan-

1. Control over an aspect of reality/nature- the Christain doctrine teaches us, as you said, that he is the father of lies and origin and controller of Evil.

2. Fear, Veneration, and Worship- Christain acknowledge this fact and therefore fear him, in addition to accusing their enemies of Veneration and worship of Satan.

Now, let us also examine how he is more of a God, than, say, Pluto-

Satan has the ability to work outside the juristiction of the All-powerful Three and One God (ironically undermining the Omnipotence of Mr. One and Three), which is much more that could be said of Pluto, who is subject to Jove, King of Gods. Likewise, He is ruler of Hell, an independent Ruler, unlike Pluto, who, while ruler of hell, must still adhere to Jove's Command.

In addition, angels, while certainly not Gods in their own right, are, according to the Judeo-Christain perception, without freewill- that is that Angels (Hebrew מלאך אלהים , or 'Messanger of God') cannot work outside what God wills them to do. Satan, owning Freewill, therefore is no Angel, even if created by 3&1. And God can create others Gods, Jove Begat Bacchus from his thighs, Mirvana from his head, and himself begat from the Union of Saturnus and Ops the Titans.

Also, if you look one line back, in said passage, you would find it runs thus:
"28:11. And the word of the Lord came to me, saying: Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyre:

28:12. And say to him: Thus saith the Lord God: Thou wast the seal of resemblance, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

28:13. Thou wast in the pleasures of the paradise of God: every precious stone was thy covering: the sardius, the topaz, and the jasper, the chrysolite, and the onyx, and the beryl, the sapphire, and the carbuncle, and the emerald: gold the work of thy beauty: and thy pipes were prepared in the day that thou wast created.

28:14. Thou a cherub stretched out, and protecting, and I set thee in the holy mountain of God, thou hast walked in the midst of the stones of fire.

28:15. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day of thy creation, until iniquity was found in thee.

28:16. By the multitude of thy merchandise, thy inner parts were filled with iniquity, and thou hast sinned: and I cast thee out from the mountain of God, and destroyed thee, O covering cherub, out of the midst of the stones of fire.

28:17. And thy heart was lifted up with thy beauty: thou hast lost thy wisdom in thy beauty, I have cast thee to the ground: I have set thee before the face of kings, that they might behold thee.

28:18. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thy iniquities, and by the iniquity of thy traffic: therefore I will bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, to devour thee, and I will make thee as ashes upon the earth in the sight of all that see thee.

28:19. All that shall see thee among the nations, shall be astonished at thee: thou art brought to nothing, and thou shalt never be any more."

(Ezechiel 28:11-19)

I doubt that the King of Tyre is Lucifer, (who was actually the King of Babylon), or Satan.

But, if you do not wish to respond, then that is up to you- any falsehood in this statement might go 'unamended' and 'delude' the readers and the writer of this post.
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Posted 11/6/10

Northerner wrote:



& as so challenged, I researched! Behold : w.jewfaq.org/human.htm#Yetzwwer
I found this particular web page helpful, & will concede to your statement. (yea! I learned something today!)

[now to tackle orangeflute's post, -guessing it'll take longer, but surely worth the education]
Posted 11/6/10

farmbird wrote:


Northerner wrote:



& as so challenged, I researched! Behold : w.jewfaq.org/human.htm#Yetzwwer
I found this particular web page helpful, & will concede to your statement. (yea! I learned something today!)

[now to tackle orangeflute's post, -guessing it'll take longer, but surely worth the education]


It is amazing what love can do to a mind. Everything is so clear and lucid.
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Posted 11/6/10

orangeflute wrote:




Okay, yeah, you caught me napping. Sadly, I merely grabbed a reference I knew of, but didn't check w/ my own Bible, & I'm sorry.

In your first response to me you attempted to explain a position as a Christian acknowledged definition. To quote you :
"Christains acknowledge that the Three-and-One Good God is opposed by a Lesser, but almost equally powerful Evil God, or the Deuce, the Serpent of Eden, the Fallen Angel, what-ever." I'm not too certain many Christians would agree with the way this statement is worded. Still, that's only my opinion.
Northerner (see above) has already educated me today, & I hope the webpage I posted in reply to him can be helpful to all.

Any definitions of God, god, satan, worship, fear (that healthy respect kind), can certainly go in all kinds of directions.
I'm okay w/ that, but my personal perspective is pretty well dominated by a Christian Bible base. My responses to yours are humbly offered from that viewpoint.

Of course, one can always go to outside sources for knowledge or commentary, not all of which need necessarily follow Christian doctrine. To say something is wrong, or contradictory in the Bible specifically, usually (maybe not always... I'll leave the door open on that!) involves the introduction of material from outside the definitions & explanations given in it.

One of the ways I've learned to study the Bible involves 3 steps : -- in verse ( the subject as it appears within that sentence, or section of the Bible), -- in the subject (involves other places in the Bible where same subject appears), -- & in context ( how the same word is translated in texts of the same time period other than in the Bible). This is kind of where I was w/ the reference from the book of Ezekial. Key to understanding & interpreting these vs. are the references to "pride", & " to fall ( from position)", & / or others. Also, I'm still clueless on which is true-- Were angels unable to exercise freewill or simply not allowed to exercise it-- hmmmm?

The idea of God doing the destructions Himself out of a selfish unrealistic motivation once again ignores the other information the Bible can offer ( I actually had a chapt. & vs. reference for this, but for moment it eludes me & I've already wasted nearly 45 mins. looking for it--enough!!). Could it be a question of why does He even dispense discipline of any kind if indeed does He? If I may refer you to a post I made in the "What is a soul?" thread of yours : Isn't holding God responsible for all that's bad & things gone wrong merely an attempt to remove responsibility from self? There are always consequences to our choices & actions. Whether one blames the constant conflict of good vs. evil on battling gods, or the consequence of peoples' evil deeds --bottom line? -- we may never know ! (or maybe we'll have to wait for an afterlife for clarity..........)

As to the question in the title of this thread specific to the truth of Christians' monotheistic God-- I adhere to my "two cents worth" original response. All things considered, I'm a little fatigued w/ this, but I can be enticed back by sincere inquiry or comment. Maybe those ought to be directly to me in PM form to avoid further tedium to those uninterested in my banter.
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Posted 11/6/10

orangeflute wrote:
Now this great and powerful One-and-Three God, the God of Good, is actively opposed by another, lesser God, Satan, Lucifer, Old Nick, Light-Bearer, Prince of Darkness, what have you, or the God of Evil, and that the end of the world, the Apocalypse is a sort of battle between the God of Good and the God of Evil, a sort of Ragnorok if you will, terminating with the eventual triumph of the God of Good.


My understanding (albeit as a non-Christian) is that Lucifer is a fallen angel, a being created by God who rebelled and was cast down from Heaven rather than a god in his own right.

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Here's one that puzzled me.

If Christianity is truly monotheistic, ie only one god exists.

Why was it necessary in the Ten Commandments that Christians "put no other god before me"

What also find interesting, is that this commandment doesn't forbid the worship of other gods. just that a christian must worship the christian god first and foremost.
Posted 11/6/10

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Here's one that puzzled me.

If Christianity is truly monotheistic, ie only one god exists.

Why was it necessary in the Ten Commandments that Christians "put no other god before me"

What also find interesting, is that this commandment doesn't forbid the worship of other gods. just that a christian must worship the christian god first and foremost.


That's strange, isn't it? I hate all the Holy Bible's contradictions, though the values it is based on are sound.
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