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Christianity- Can it truly be considered Monotheistic?
Posted 11/29/10

digs wrote:

I am a Christian and we only believe in One God. There are no lesser gods, but only One God who is sovereign. We believe in the 3 aspects or "persons" of God. These being God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit of God. It's beyond our comprehension to understand that the Three are One. The Bible never specifically mentions the Trinity, it is a concept that Christian theologians gave created to help explain God.
In other words, the Christian theologians made up a bogus claim that even they themselves didn't understand, according to your statement.

What other lies that your religious institution ends up spreading as "truth"? When you just claimed that you don't even know the truth of your own God.
Posted 12/2/10 , edited 12/2/10

DomFortress wrote:


digs wrote:

I am a Christian and we only believe in One God. There are no lesser gods, but only One God who is sovereign. We believe in the 3 aspects or "persons" of God. These being God the Father, God the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit of God. It's beyond our comprehension to understand that the Three are One. The Bible never specifically mentions the Trinity, it is a concept that Christian theologians gave created to help explain God.
In other words, the Christian theologians made up a bogus claim that even they themselves didn't understand, according to your statement.

What other lies that your religious institution ends up spreading as "truth"? When you just claimed that you don't even know the truth of your own God.



The word you all are looking for is called TRI-UNITY.
Tri-unity,God is three sided, so to say, Each side is equal and fully eternally God,Each is necessary, and each is distinct,The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.

Sources:GCA.


Posted 12/2/10

Deathguitar wrote:



The word you all are looking for is called TRI-UNITY.
Tri-unity,God is three sided, so to say, Each side is equal and fully eternally God,Each is necessary, and each is distinct,The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.

Sources:GCA.
And what does God Himself says about this hypothesis? Can we get a verification regarding the truthfulness of this claim? What is the objective fact that support this theory?
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Posted 12/3/10 , edited 12/3/10
I think one should noted just because you start with a word and give its definition, doesn't mean that all things that could fit in its classification really truly give you an accurate idea. Its not so important for someone who believes in the Trinity as a Christian to make a claim that one is monotheistic and not polytheistic , it is to make the claim they believe in the Trinity. They will say they are monotheistic, because they believe in one God, and that God comes as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. At one time it is both all three and one. If you want me to explain the exact physics and/or metaphysics of that, alls I could say is "I don't know." I could try to use some analogies and the such, that still won't give you an exacting answer. If one wants to say, thats polytheism, then so be it.

Also Catholics do not worship Mary. I guess you could say that, depending on what exact definition of worship you mean, although a better term would maybe be something like venerate. Worship meant for God is only allowed for God. Respect, but not divine worship, should be given to people like Mary, St. Paul, St. Peter, the other Apostles. As far as the Pope, he is not Jesus. We are called to be Christ-like, and the priests and Popes do have unique role in that, they are not Jesus.

Also Satan is in no way is anywhere near the same level as God is, especially with respect to framing him as another God. He is more on par with the angles. If you take Christianity up to a point of view from the Alpha to the Omega from the start to end, God wins.
Posted 12/3/10

DomFortress wrote:


Deathguitar wrote:



The word you all are looking for is called TRI-UNITY.
Tri-unity,God is three sided, so to say, Each side is equal and fully eternally God,Each is necessary, and each is distinct,The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.

Sources:GCA.
And what does God Himself says about this hypothesis? Can we get a verification regarding the truthfulness of this claim? What is the objective fact that support this theory?


Well let's look inside of the Bible,

Scriptures supporting the fact, that God is more then uno.
-Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
-And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
-Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
-Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

*Since God is having a conversation, the “we” and “us” must therefore refer to the Trinity. You might say that God speaks to Himself in the plural form.

Matthew 28:16-20
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Matthew 28:16-20 referred to as “The Great Commission.” In verse 19, Jesus states, “Go! therefore and make disciples of all the nations! Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”

Why did Jesus tell his eleven disciples to baptize people in the names of all three members of the Trinity? Why not one or two? It is obvious from this passage that the entire Trinity is God.

Sources:Genesis 1:26, Genesis 3:22, Genesis 11:7, Isaiah 6:8

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Posted 12/3/10
Well, satan is no other god, he is just a nemesis. Some kind of demon or just the personification of the evil.
Posted 12/3/10

Deathguitar wrote:



Well let's look inside of the Bible,

Scriptures supporting the fact, that God is more then uno.
-Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
-And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
-Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
-Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”

*Since God is having a conversation, the “we” and “us” must therefore refer to the Trinity. You might say that God speaks to Himself in the plural form.

Matthew 28:16-20
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Matthew 28:16-20 referred to as “The Great Commission.” In verse 19, Jesus states, “Go! therefore and make disciples of all the nations! Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”

Why did Jesus tell his eleven disciples to baptize people in the names of all three members of the Trinity? Why not one or two? It is obvious from this passage that the entire Trinity is God.

Sources:Genesis 1:26, Genesis 3:22, Genesis 11:7, Isaiah 6:8
And it's the exact same source that justified the immoral acts of rape, torture, murder, and even genocide, all in the name of God Himself. So you'll have to understand my criticism regarding the truthfulness of your source, when it's contradicting with its own morality. It's obvious that the followers of God made things up as they go with the bible.
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Posted 12/4/10
I can understand your criticism. On one hand, I would say, with respect to Christianity being Trinitarian I would say it doesn't really matter. Christians are allowed to define themselves as they do. The theologians that answered the question of the Trinitarian nature of God, did so not by just making up on the whim, they used the scriptures that were all ready accepted. And it was done, because it was an issue at that time that needed to be answered. On could say that Newton discovered gravity, but it was all ready there as a phenomenon working. He at the time had the tools needed to discover it, and he did it in an environment where the issue mattered. He didn't invent gravity, but he was able to define it in away that helped others use that definition to have a better idea on how to place other things in context.

Now on the other hand, your criticism is very relevant. There does seem to be contradictions in its own morality. I know it really seems like a cop out to say this, but the Bible is a collection of books that really need to be taken into context. It is not easy to get a real working feel for how it works. If you looked at a ball of twine, you may not really have any idea if it is made of one string or many strings. But even saying that may be too simplistic. So much depends on context. Each book must be taken on its own for its historic period and yet at the same time for its relation with today and eternity. Everything tends to have layered meaning. If it looks to you like its a contradiction, I say, I can understand. It really can appear that way.
Posted 12/4/10 , edited 12/4/10

jam15007 wrote:

I can understand your criticism. On one hand, I would say, with respect to Christianity being Trinitarian I would say it doesn't really matter. Christians are allowed to define themselves as they do. The theologians that answered the question of the Trinitarian nature of God, did so not by just making up on the whim, they used the scriptures that were all ready accepted. And it was done, because it was an issue at that time that needed to be answered. On could say that Newton discovered gravity, but it was all ready there as a phenomenon working. He at the time had the tools needed to discover it, and he did it in an environment where the issue mattered. He didn't invent gravity, but he was able to define it in away that helped others use that definition to have a better idea on how to place other things in context.

Now on the other hand, your criticism is very relevant. There does seem to be contradictions in its own morality. I know it really seems like a cop out to say this, but the Bible is a collection of books that really need to be taken into context. It is not easy to get a real working feel for how it works. If you looked at a ball of twine, you may not really have any idea if it is made of one string or many strings. But even saying that may be too simplistic. So much depends on context. Each book must be taken on its own for its historic period and yet at the same time for its relation with today and eternity. Everything tends to have layered meaning. If it looks to you like its a contradiction, I say, I can understand. It really can appear that way.
I say the Bible was that way because itself was a patch work of ideas from several bigots, when the relationship with the one true God is exclusive only for the Christians who worship him. That's inequality right there, not spirituality. When that will only make those so-called Christians to "feel" good about themselves, while at the same time they'll treat non-Christians and their beliefs with contempt, and that's narcissism.

Finally comparing the theologians' "completed" Trinity of Christian God and Newton's still incomplete theory of gravity doesn't work, when 1)unlike the so-called Christian God who will treat and judge the non-Christians and "sinners" differently, gravity OTOH is universal wherever gravitational force can be observed between two objects, and 2)unlike the "completed" thereby "perfection" of the Trinity, the human concept on the laws of gravity was made different when Einstein redefined gravity itself as any objective with mass warping the space-time continuum, using the theory of general relativity. So unlike how the human bigotry, inequality, and narcissism in the Bible itself will not change simply because how it was intended to be, the human theory of gravity itself will change along with the ever expanding human knowledge of the universe itself.
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Posted 12/9/10

longfenglim wrote:



If Jesus is God, where, then, where existed God before his conception by Mary and his untimely death, where is he after that now that God is deceased?

Or maybe, God existed, decided to come to earth on a holiday, checked in a womb for nine-month, checked out, decided that its a grand idea to tour Judea, before finally deciding to go home after several bout of homesickness and many curious wonderings as to whether the angels are secretly sleeping on his bed and using his toothbrush for more inappropiate activities.

This whole thing is confusing.


No, it isn't. It is because we question waaaaay too much (which certain people think is a must so as not to fall into what we call blind faith) that we sometimes confuse ourselves more than necessary.

Before I go on, I am no expert on religion stuffs, just trying to explain what I understand. Now, God was always there - even before time came to existence. By simple definition, God, in this case, refers to the Holy Trinity (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit). Put the two pieces together, Jesus was always there as the Son of God, sharing an eternal relationship with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Through Mary, the Father sent His only Son to earth. And it wasn't a tour of course, for the sins of mankind are forgiven through His death on the Cross (don't ask me if non-believers are included, I don't know). And when Jesus died, He rose again to Heaven and sat on the right hand of the Father, being the only one who is ever resurrected. This implies that His death did not end His life, unlike what some people may believe that when we die, we rot in our own graves and that's it. So that proves that God isn't deceased. And I think I've answered your question?
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Posted 12/9/10

DomFortress wrote:


I say the Bible was that way because itself was a patch work of ideas from several bigots, when the relationship with the one true God is exclusive only for the Christians who worship him. That's inequality right there, not spirituality. When that will only make those so-called Christians to "feel" good about themselves, while at the same time they'll treat non-Christians and their beliefs with contempt, and that's narcissism.

Finally comparing the theologians' "completed" Trinity of Christian God and Newton's still incomplete theory of gravity doesn't work, when 1)unlike the so-called Christian God who will treat and judge the non-Christians and "sinners" differently, gravity OTOH is universal wherever gravitational force can be observed between two objects, and 2)unlike the "completed" thereby "perfection" of the Trinity, the human concept on the laws of gravity was made different when Einstein redefined gravity itself as any objective with mass warping the space-time continuum, using the theory of general relativity. So unlike how the human bigotry, inequality, and narcissism in the Bible itself will not change simply because how it was intended to be, the human theory of gravity itself will change along with the ever expanding human knowledge of the universe itself.

I actually wonder whether the Bible was really a patchwork of ideas from several bigots, and whether the relationship with one true God is exclusively only for Christians who worship him. You implied that only Christians are associated with God which I believe is not true. Just because you (not referring to you, but the non-believers) don't believe in God doesn't mean that God don't exist. And please don't argue about the other way around, it'll be rather endless. If you don't already know, the Bible is also known as the Word of God. It doesn't fit to say that the Bible is created by bigots then. True that it is human who wrote the Bible, but look at them as a middle-party as all scriptures are inspired by God and moved by the Holy Spirit. Pretty irrational to call it Word of God if it was written out of human's ideas right?

I don't quite know if the Christians you've met do treat non-Christians and their beliefs with contempt, but Christians should know to bring themselves better than that. Yes, I too have heard of hardcore Christians but I'll prefer to keep the comments to myself. Another thing is that, I don't really know where you got the idea that the Christian God will treat and judge the non-Christians differently. I don't have the answer, but I believe that when it comes to God's judgment, it'll be fair.

And lastly, I really don't see the reason behind bigotry, inequality and narcissism, quoting you,
"...the human bigotry, inequality, and narcissism in the Bible..."
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Posted 12/9/10
I appreciated the OP's question. It was a respectful wondering. When dealing with another's religious beliefs it is important to always be respectful!!!!! And questions should always be answered in kind. The Bible tells us that we are to esteem others (all others!) as better than ourselves, and as a Christian I take this seriously.

My .02 in this conversation: When God said "we" and "us" it was my understanding that he was talking about the other heavenly beings He had created. I.e. angels.

The reason for God's coming to earth was the redemption of man after the fall. It required a perfect blood sacrifice to bridge the chasm that had occurred between God and man. In the OT it was always a blood sacrifice (of an animal) that atoned for the sins of man. (((((HUGS))))) sandi
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Posted 12/9/10

Titus2woman wrote:

My .02 in this conversation: When God said "we" and "us" it was my understanding that he was talking about the other heavenly beings He had created. I.e. angels.



Or it could be the Royal 'We'. Monarchs traditionally refer to themselves in the plural, this dates back to when the plural was also the more formal and respectful. In French you still address single strangers with the plural 'vous' and friends with the less formal 'tu'. In english we have abandoned thee and thy, so we use the plural 'you' for everyone.

but we still have 'I' and 'we' and When a head of state refers to her or himself with 'we' it's called the 'royal we'. Maybe God was using that (or whomever told, wrote what they were told, translated what was written, God's story inserted the 'we' during the centuries long game of Telephone)




Posted 12/9/10 , edited 12/9/10

Deltadestiny wrote:


longfenglim wrote:



If Jesus is God, where, then, where existed God before his conception by Mary and his untimely death, where is he after that now that God is deceased?

Or maybe, God existed, decided to come to earth on a holiday, checked in a womb for nine-month, checked out, decided that its a grand idea to tour Judea, before finally deciding to go home after several bout of homesickness and many curious wonderings as to whether the angels are secretly sleeping on his bed and using his toothbrush for more inappropiate activities.

This whole thing is confusing.


No, it isn't. It is because we question waaaaay too much (which certain people think is a must so as not to fall into what we call blind faith) that we sometimes confuse ourselves more than necessary.

Before I go on, I am no expert on religion stuffs, just trying to explain what I understand. Now, God was always there - even before time came to existence. By simple definition, God, in this case, refers to the Holy Trinity (God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit). Put the two pieces together, Jesus was always there as the Son of God, sharing an eternal relationship with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Through Mary, the Father sent His only Son to earth. And it wasn't a tour of course, for the sins of mankind are forgiven through His death on the Cross (don't ask me if non-believers are included, I don't know). And when Jesus died, He rose again to Heaven and sat on the right hand of the Father, being the only one who is ever resurrected. This implies that His death did not end His life, unlike what some people may believe that when we die, we rot in our own graves and that's it. So that proves that God isn't deceased. And I think I've answered your question?
So not only you were attempting to explain stuff that you claimed that you didn't understand in the first place, you took your explanation to be the factual truth just because some book said it was inspired by the Words of God Himself. Well did you know what other biblical truths were also the inspirations of God's Words, times and times again?

DomFortress wrote:

And it's the exact same source that justified the immoral acts of rape, torture, murder, and even genocide, all in the name of God Himself. So you'll have to understand my criticism regarding the truthfulness of your source, when it's contradicting with its own morality. It's obvious that the followers of God made things up as they go with the bible.
Oh yes, it was none other than the very Words of God that humans were able to bring hell on Earth. Believe it.[/sarcasm]


Deltadestiny wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


I say the Bible was that way because itself was a patch work of ideas from several bigots, when the relationship with the one true God is exclusive only for the Christians who worship him. That's inequality right there, not spirituality. When that will only make those so-called Christians to "feel" good about themselves, while at the same time they'll treat non-Christians and their beliefs with contempt, and that's narcissism.

Finally comparing the theologians' "completed" Trinity of Christian God and Newton's still incomplete theory of gravity doesn't work, when 1)unlike the so-called Christian God who will treat and judge the non-Christians and "sinners" differently, gravity OTOH is universal wherever gravitational force can be observed between two objects, and 2)unlike the "completed" thereby "perfection" of the Trinity, the human concept on the laws of gravity was made different when Einstein redefined gravity itself as any objective with mass warping the space-time continuum, using the theory of general relativity. So unlike how the human bigotry, inequality, and narcissism in the Bible itself will not change simply because how it was intended to be, the human theory of gravity itself will change along with the ever expanding human knowledge of the universe itself.

I actually wonder whether the Bible was really a patchwork of ideas from several bigots, and whether the relationship with one true God is exclusively only for Christians who worship him. You implied that only Christians are associated with God which I believe is not true. Just because you (not referring to you, but the non-believers) don't believe in God doesn't mean that God don't exist. And please don't argue about the other way around, it'll be rather endless. If you don't already know, the Bible is also known as the Word of God. It doesn't fit to say that the Bible is created by bigots then. True that it is human who wrote the Bible, but look at them as a middle-party as all scriptures are inspired by God and moved by the Holy Spirit. Pretty irrational to call it Word of God if it was written out of human's ideas right?

I don't quite know if the Christians you've met do treat non-Christians and their beliefs with contempt, but Christians should know to bring themselves better than that. Yes, I too have heard of hardcore Christians but I'll prefer to keep the comments to myself.
Another thing is that, I don't really know where you got the idea that the Christian God will treat and judge the non-Christians differently. I don't have the answer, but I believe that when it comes to God's judgment, it'll be fair.

And lastly, I really don't see the reason behind bigotry, inequality and narcissism, quoting you,
"...the human bigotry, inequality, and narcissism in the Bible..."
I'm not arguing about the existence of God Himself here, no. So take your own ignorant assumption about my real intention with contempt, just like how you treat your own explanation about the Christian God as something you know nothing about, you sorry excuse for an agnostic.

Finally those are my default criticisms on every known organized religions in human history, not questions which I reserve exclusively for God Himself to answer. Not by His followers nor the likes of yourself, when none of your sources were consistent.
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Posted 12/9/10 , edited 12/9/10
Papagolfwhiskey, thank you for that insight!

DomFortress, I am interested in your criticisms of religion and always welcome a hearty discussion of differing opinions!!! I'm not a fan of name calling though. (((((HUGS))))) sandi

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