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Our Fondest Dictators
Posted 11/29/10

gokuvsnaruto wrote:

this is not an argument dectators are the human form of a plague some worse than others.
i respect people who sacrificed themselves to keeping us safe and helped with progression (one being my great grandfather) please dont say that.
but those sacrifices wouldnt have been necessary.
medical research, technology, weopens and more all come from demand_____supply and demand
you think if there was no hitler there wouldnt be a cell phone or a flu shot
Then by your own creed, in a marketplace of ideas this form of intellectual debate needs to exist, otherwise you're not meeting your own demand for a cure. Just because you don't want to face dictatorship doesn't mean that it will go away. And what's worst the ideology starts from your own ignorance and denial of your own irrational fear towards dictatorship itself.

I mean come on! How do you know what dictator is? When you yourself had failed to recognize it. While your own fear is allowing the dictators to justify their own selfish actions, whereas you OTOH just uncritically mimic a dictator by yourself trying to dictate what we should or shouldn't say through censorship. Without you providing sufficient justification or moral grounds to prove otherwise.

Finally in my own defense I don't think your great grandfather did a good job at ridding the human specie of dictators, when the fact is ideologies like dictatorship, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, even bigotry still exist under one big party within secular human society even today. So what's your point?
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Posted 11/29/10

gokuvsnaruto wrote:

you think if there was no hitler there wouldnt be a cell phone or a flu shot


It's difficult to say for certain, as without a time machine we can't go back and remove Hitler and see the results. However, at least some of the technology we take for granted comes from the military. For example, the internet as we know it started life as a military network, IIRC designed for resilience (one machine on the network is destroyed, the rest keep working.)

With regards to dictators, I agree that they are (to say the least) not nice, and they can inflict horrible suffering. However, in the aftermath of World War 2 for example there was a focus on human rights. I also think that they can act as warnings, showing how things can go under political systems like fascism and communism, so those looking at such systems can avoid making the same mistakes.

Posted 11/29/10

gokuvsnaruto wrote:

this is not an argument dectators are the human form of a plague some worse than others.
i respect people who sacrificed themselves to keeping us safe and helped with progression (one being my great grandfather) please dont say that. but those sacrifices wouldnt have been necessary.
medical research, technology, weopens and more all come from demand_____supply and demand
you think if there was no hitler there wouldnt be a cell phone or a flu shot


Anything can be argued, for the sake of it is to declare a clear winner.

Although Hitler was responsible for heinous crimes against humanity, he had many things to teach people. His greatest strength was the power of speech, and there was one thing which set him apart from so many totalitarian rulers; he promised happiness to his people. If you think about it, Hitler felt he could not trust certain people, because they wouldn't have trusted him and his kind of people in the first place aside from the fact that he was forthrightly bigoted and evil. Were his enemies not the same in a sense? Hitler was more or less justified in spreading propaganda against others, since they might have come to do the same, and in fact, did! The Italians touted of their superiority as a race just as Hitler taught his people much the same.
Posted 11/29/10

Mr_Entropy wrote:



Anything can be argued, for the sake of it is to declare a clear winner.

Although Hitler was responsible for heinous crimes against humanity, he had many things to teach people. His greatest strength was the power of speech, and there was one thing which set him apart from so many totalitarian rulers; he promised happiness to his people. If you think about it, Hitler felt he could not trust certain people, because they wouldn't have trusted him and his kind of people in the first place aside from the fact that he was forthrightly bigoted and evil. Were his enemies not the same in a sense? Hitler was more or less justified in spreading propaganda against others, since they might have come to do the same, and in fact, did! The Italians touted of their superiority as a race just as Hitler taught his people much the same.
The Japanese Imperialism during WW2 comes to mind, their Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere was the ideology stemmed from their bigotry.
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Posted 11/30/10 , edited 11/30/10
'O.o yes...!

Without the empty minded packs of raving biggits, that are simply blissfully ignorant and ready and willing to blame someone for something. Great minds like Hitler would have never been able to do what he did. So I must say all the little people must take a moment to pat your selves on the back... Its your irrational need for a leader, and a scape goat that leads to their power..

So cheers to the low brow masses! The people who accept the world as it is pointed out to be to them from someone else without gathering the fact. Then fallow someone else ideals blindly like some blind faith wielding nut-job.. You are the source of their greatest assets.
Posted 11/30/10 , edited 11/30/10

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

'O.o yes...!

Without the empty minded packs of raving biggits, that are simply blissfully ignorant and ready and willing to blame someone for something. Great minds like Hitler would have never been able to do what he did. So I must say all the little people must take a moment to pat your selves on the back... Its your irrational need for a leader, and a scape goat that leads to their power..

So cheers to the low brow masses! The people who accept the world as it is pointed out to be to them from someone else without gathering the fact. Then fallow someone else ideals blindly like some blind faith wielding nut-job.. You are the source of their greatest assets.


Every person should be their own leader... if they are smart enough. It takes an inquisitive and logical person to see how botched their so-called leader's sense of justice is, or how it differs little from the commonplace arrogance of empowered humans. We can all do with being a light unto ourselves.
Posted 11/30/10
Hitler my true hero
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Posted 11/30/10
This thread makes me ill.
Posted 12/1/10
I think another ideology that runs very well with the preexisting concepts of exclusion like bigotry, dictatorship, authoritarianism, and totalitarianism, is neo-liberalism. Which is liberalism unrestrained by the artificial boundary of the nation states due to globalization:

The main points of neo-liberalism include:

1. THE RULE OF THE MARKET. Liberating "free" enterprise or private enterprise from any bonds imposed by the government (the state) no matter how much social damage this causes. Greater openness to international trade and investment, as in NAFTA. Reduce wages by de-unionizing workers and eliminating workers' rights that had been won over many years of struggle. No more price controls. All in all, total freedom of movement for capital, goods and services. To convince us this is good for us, they say "an unregulated market is the best way to increase economic growth, which will ultimately benefit everyone." It's like Reagan's "supply-side" and "trickle-down" economics -- but somehow the wealth didn't trickle down very much.

2. CUTTING PUBLIC EXPENDITURE FOR SOCIAL SERVICES like education and health care. REDUCING THE SAFETY-NET FOR THE POOR, and even maintenance of roads, bridges, water supply -- again in the name of reducing government's role. Of course, they don't oppose government subsidies and tax benefits for business.

3. DEREGULATION. Reduce government regulation of everything that could diminish profits, including protecting the environment and safety on the job.

4. PRIVATIZATION. Sell state-owned enterprises, goods and services to private investors. This includes banks, key industries, railroads, toll highways, electricity, schools, hospitals and even fresh water. Although usually done in the name of greater efficiency, which is often needed, privatization has mainly had the effect of concentrating wealth even more in a few hands and making the public pay even more for its needs.

5. ELIMINATING THE CONCEPT OF "THE PUBLIC GOOD" or "COMMUNITY" and replacing it with "individual responsibility." Pressuring the poorest people in a society to find solutions to their lack of health care, education and social security all by themselves -- then blaming them, if they fail, as "lazy."(citation)
In other words, every human rights violation, exploitation, and artificial market/consumer manipulation, can be supported by this ideology. And if you don't like it, well then too bad. The neo-libertarians just bought themselves their own war machine to force their rules down our throats:

In the first article, Steven Staples argues that:

The relationship between globalization and militarism should be seen as two sides of the same coin. On one side, globalization promotes the conditions that lead to unrest, inequality, conflict, and, ultimately, war. On the other side, globalization fuels the means to wage war by protecting and promoting the military industries needed to produce sophisticated weaponry. This weaponry, in turn, is used or is threatened to be used to protect the investments of transnational corporations and their shareholders.

As several contributors note, colonial expansionism and the quest for control of strategic locations historically have been a major justification and impetus for military intervention. Control over scarce resources is an essential element in many contemporary conflicts. The Persian Gulf War was about oil, as the U.S. catchphrase, "our oil is under their soil," made clear. Michael Renner's list of international water disputes provides examples on every continent (Table 1). These disputes are of varying intensity and have not led to armed conflict in most cases, but the potential is there. Fighting between India and Pakistan over Kashmir, for example, which has been going on for over 50 years, concerns control of this watershed region. Water allocation, water diversion, and water rights are also key elements of tension in the Middle East.(citation)
I don't know about the rest of your own nation states, but my own Canadian federal government just decided completely on their own to get their military some shiny new F-35 toys, just in time to jump-start an Arctic arm race.

I think Chairman Mao said it best: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
Posted 12/1/10

Laharalsan_234 wrote:

Hitler my true hero


Posted 12/5/10
Evil dictator = tyrannus malus/improbus/pravus

The first tyrannus I believe was Julius Cesar..not/malus/improbus/pravus but got himself in trouble by starting a civil war
with Italy...

I like this guy...Evil Incarnate.
Vlad Tepes.....

Vlad III of Romania (also known as Vlad the Impaler) was Prince of Wallachia three times between 1448 and 1476. Vlad is best known for the legends of the exceedingly cruel punishments he imposed during his reign and for serving as the primary inspiration for the vampire main character in Bram Stoker’s popular Dracula novel. In Romania he is viewed by many as a prince with a deep sense of justice. His method of torture was a horse attached to each of the victim’s legs as a sharpened stake was gradually forced into the body. The end of the stake was usually oiled, and care was taken that the stake not be too sharp; else the victim might die too rapidly from shock. Wikipedia has an article that describes, in great details, the methods of Vlad’s cruelty. The list of tortures he is alleged to have employed is extensive: nails in heads, cutting off of limbs, blinding, strangulation, burning, cutting off of noses and ears, mutilation of sexual organs (especially in the case of women), scalping, skinning, exposure to the elements or to animals, and boiling alive. There are claims that on some occasions ten thousand people were impaled in 1460 alone.

Fore-runner to Pol Pot, Hitler, , Stalin, etc...

Not exactly Twilight material either and I would hate to read his Vampire Diaries,,lol..


Posted 12/5/10

XxSixpencexX wrote:

Evil dictator = tyrannus malus/improbus/pravus

The first tyrannus I believe was Julius Cesar..not/malus/improbus/pravus but got himself in trouble by starting a civil war
with Italy...

I like this guy...Evil Incarnate.
Vlad Tepes.....

Vlad III of Romania (also known as Vlad the Impaler) was Prince of Wallachia three times between 1448 and 1476. Vlad is best known for the legends of the exceedingly cruel punishments he imposed during his reign and for serving as the primary inspiration for the vampire main character in Bram Stoker’s popular Dracula novel. In Romania he is viewed by many as a prince with a deep sense of justice. His method of torture was a horse attached to each of the victim’s legs as a sharpened stake was gradually forced into the body. The end of the stake was usually oiled, and care was taken that the stake not be too sharp; else the victim might die too rapidly from shock. Wikipedia has an article that describes, in great details, the methods of Vlad’s cruelty. The list of tortures he is alleged to have employed is extensive: nails in heads, cutting off of limbs, blinding, strangulation, burning, cutting off of noses and ears, mutilation of sexual organs (especially in the case of women), scalping, skinning, exposure to the elements or to animals, and boiling alive. There are claims that on some occasions ten thousand people were impaled in 1460 alone.

Fore-runner to Pol Pot, Hitler, , Stalin, etc...

Not exactly Twilight material either and I would hate to read his Vampire Diaries,,lol..
Royalties with an unique sense of "justice"? How very boring. Neither Cesar nor Tepes couldn't had done what they did as who they were, without the preexisting social norms of authoritarianism in the forms of nobility and blood tie in the first place. At least Hitler started out as a common nobody. What do they got? Social elitists in the form of royalties as their master status, they're like a couple of spoiled brats compared to Hitler.
Posted 12/5/10
O Hi Dom,

Did you know Hitler kept a copy of Machiavelli's, The Prince by his bed side?

Just thought I would toss that in, I mean poor little Adolph in his drug induced madness, reading by dim light and sighing over
a book.

Quaint...wonder if he pardoned Jesus fpr being a Jew since he suffered with a huge Messiah complex...

Nighty Night.
Posted 12/5/10 , edited 12/5/10

XxSixpencexX wrote:

O Hi Dom,

Did you know Hitler kept a copy of Machiavelli's, The Prince by his bed side?

Just thought I would toss that in, I mean poor little Adolph in his drug induced madness, reading by dim light and sighing over
a book.


Quaint...wonder if he pardoned Jesus fpr being a Jew since he suffered with a huge Messiah complex...

Nighty Night.
And your point is? Aside from the fact that there are authoritarians who would uncritically obey the authorities by over 50% of majority, through the human sociological process of conformity. If it wasn't for that preexisting human social mechanism, do you think that individual profile would've matter at all?
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Posted 12/6/10 , edited 12/6/10
Yeah, I somehow adore depots who try to challenge the world.
(Even though they know they're bound to fail, anyway.)
Well at least they're happy jumping in a large trampoline somewhere
just because students are actually wasting money in school just to
memorize these people's birth date and all the other things about them that doesn't
really matter.

Still waiting for the new born to do something spectacular. *coughs* Kim Jong-il *coughs*


and then Saddam's own people give him the high honor of being executed on television. How wonderful!

LMFAO
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