The Mind
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Posted 12/9/10 , edited 12/9/10
Are we born with certain innate knowledge or are we, as Mr Locke claim, born as 'Tabula Rasa', or blank slates, from which all our knowledge then are derived from experience.
Posted 12/9/10
Mostly, yet a baby knows when to cry if it needs something.
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Posted 12/9/10

Mr_Entropy wrote:

Mostly, yet a baby knows when to cry if it needs something.


Babies are born with the innate knowledge that the basis of locomotive requires that you need to put one limb before the other, and then the other limb before that in order to propel the self forward. This is evident in animals most clearly, being born more fully formed than human babies, and, in humans as well, that they are able to crawl and, later, walk. So, we must be born with some knowledge, like the knowledge that it is far safer to be away from the presence of danger than in the presence of it, or the concept of a singular entity can be expressed by the idea of one, two entities two, and no entities the idea of zero (otherwise, if children are really blank slates and see one cookie and one finger, and are taught to associate those two with 'one', then, logically, they only know 'one' as a cookie and a finger, and thus, one should be, accordingly, a cookie or a finger), in addition, there must be an innate concept of 'Causation', that is, that the cause is the 'causation' of the effect, and that those are not two seperate events- for example, being hit and feeling pain, those may be, without the idea of causation, just two seperate sensation, but, obviously, there must be the concept in order that we know this.
Posted 12/9/10 , edited 12/9/10

longfenglim wrote:


Mr_Entropy wrote:

Mostly, yet a baby knows when to cry if it needs something.


Babies are born with the innate knowledge that the basis of locomotive requires that you need to put one limb before the other, and then the other limb before that in order to propel the self forward. This is evident in animals most clearly, being born more fully formed than human babies, and, in humans as well, that they are able to crawl and, later, walk. So, we must be born with some knowledge, like the knowledge that it is far safer to be away from the presence of danger than in the presence of it, or the concept of a singular entity can be expressed by the idea of one, two entities two, and no entities the idea of zero (otherwise, if children are really blank slates and see one cookie and one finger, and are taught to associate those two with 'one', then, logically, they only know 'one' as a cookie and a finger, and thus, one should be, accordingly, a cookie or a finger), in addition, there must be an innate concept of 'Causation', that is, that the cause is the 'causation' of the effect, and that those are not two seperate events- for example, being hit and feeling pain, those may be, without the idea of causation, just two seperate sensation, but, obviously, there must be the concept in order that we know this.


True. The minute details in our base of knowledge never stop growing until our moment of expiration. Every infant creature is equipped with some form of threat assessment and means to defend itself. The eagerness to learn is also prevalent. It recognizes the need for nurturing over suffering within familial ties, and importantly, whom it can seek for the most effective aid. Once a child possess inquisitiveness (if fortunate enough) it may then truly begin the process of becoming more deeply familiar with its world and making crucial personal choices.
Posted 12/9/10
In terms of babies, babies learn as they grow. There's a certain month that the baby figures about depth perception.
There are some studies conducted that a certain aged-baby would react whether things are far or near.
The reaction is noted by the movement of the baby's eyes.
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Posted 12/11/10
I think that as we grow, from the babies that know nothing about what is expected of them to the person that thinks in some form or degree of "logical thinking. Smiling is just a reflex that all babies have, but once they see that his/her mum and dad smile back, pay attention to them, jump around, and give a generally happy response, they realize that, Hey! Mum likes that, and pays attention to me when I do this. But as we grow older our instincts become less and less important, as we believe that we can function without them. So we are born with innate knowledge, but as we grow, our minds slowly become less and less full, as we try to understand our world around us...."The more I learn, the less I know." As much as we try to fill that blank slate, it keeps getting erased with more knowledge.
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Posted 12/11/10

isupport wrote:

I think that as we grow, from the babies that know nothing about what is expected of them to the person that thinks in some form or degree of "logical thinking. Smiling is just a reflex that all babies have, but once they see that his/her mum and dad smile back, pay attention to them, jump around, and give a generally happy response, they realize that, Hey! Mum likes that, and pays attention to me when I do this. But as we grow older our instincts become less and less important, as we believe that we can function without them. So we are born with innate knowledge, but as we grow, our minds slowly become less and less full, as we try to understand our world around us...."The more I learn, the less I know." As much as we try to fill that blank slate, it keeps getting erased with more knowledge.


I have to disagree, and the cause of my disagreement is in fuller details above- Humans, like all other creatures, must have some basic innate knowledge to carry itself about in the world- a beast, for example, is born with the ability to walk, and with the ability to know that if there is danger, then it should fly. A human child knows how to propel itself forward at birth, by crawling, and, when the legs are sufficiently developed so as to be able to support his wieght, walk. Therefore, because it is a necessity for survival, there must exist, en prima, some basic knowledge of the world.
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Posted 12/11/10
I have to disagree, and the cause of my disagreement is in fuller details above- Humans, like all other creatures, must have some basic innate knowledge to carry itself about in the world- a beast, for example, is born with the ability to walk, and with the ability to know that if there is danger, then it should fly. A human child knows how to propel itself forward at birth, by crawling, and, when the legs are sufficiently developed so as to be able to support his wieght, walk. Therefore, because it is a necessity for survival, there must exist, en prima, some basic knowledge of the world.

New Member, don't know how to "quote"... sorry....

I agree that we all have some sort of instinct, such as crawling, and walking, but as we grow more and more into the habit of 'thinking', or as one grows into more of a adult. When a person is 5 or 6, the world is simple. There's your backyard, from preschool to your house, and everything you interact with in your daily life. The sky is blue, and candy is sweet. As a person grows, you have some understanding of things, such as moving muscles *subconsciously*, breathing, and a beating heart. The blank slate is slowly filled and wiped clean accordingly. Now, when I talk about 'blank slates' I'm not saying that breathing is learned, but rather more complex things are figured out as we grow.
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Posted 12/11/10

isupport wrote:

I have to disagree, and the cause of my disagreement is in fuller details above- Humans, like all other creatures, must have some basic innate knowledge to carry itself about in the world- a beast, for example, is born with the ability to walk, and with the ability to know that if there is danger, then it should fly. A human child knows how to propel itself forward at birth, by crawling, and, when the legs are sufficiently developed so as to be able to support his wieght, walk. Therefore, because it is a necessity for survival, there must exist, en prima, some basic knowledge of the world.

New Member, don't know how to "quote"... sorry....

I agree that we all have some sort of instinct, such as crawling, and walking, but as we grow more and more into the habit of 'thinking', or as one grows into more of a adult. When a person is 5 or 6, the world is simple. There's your backyard, from preschool to your house, and everything you interact with in your daily life. The sky is blue, and candy is sweet. As a person grows, you have some understanding of things, such as moving muscles *subconsciously*, breathing, and a beating heart. The blank slate is slowly filled and wiped clean accordingly. Now, when I talk about 'blank slates' I'm not saying that breathing is learned, but rather more complex things are figured out as we grow.


Just click the quote button-

A blank slate would be, as its name suggest, blank, devoid of any knowledge or idea. This is preposterous in that we have to know something from birth- for all knowledge are built upon other knowledge, and empirical evidence are only taken in and analysed through rational thoughts and connected with knowledge already founded- I would say that instincts (unconcious in their application) are counted among innate knowledge, in that you are born with them, that they are knowledge, and that its application demostrate that it is knowledge rather than learned. A blank slate cannot be filled then erased if there is exist no blank slate to begin with, and that some things are completely erased after learning new things is also absurd- as I said, all knowledge is built upon other knowledge, for example, take these ideas:
1. Red is a Colour
2. Green is a Colour
3. Red is not Green

and this proposition:
Not all colours are the same

1. Red and Green are both colours, given by idea 1 and idea 2
2. Red is not green, given by idea 3
3. Therefore, not all colours are the same.

The base ideas are necessary to come to that conclusion- while some base ideas can be forgotten due to disuse, knowledge is not erased, because all knowledge, from the simple to the complex, depend on previous knowledge to exist.
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