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Existence of Hell
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Posted 4/7/11
Am i the only one who thinks that people who obey and follow a "God" that sends people to hell for ETERNAL suffering...

are sick?

ETERNAL suffering.. can you grasp it?

ETERNAL suffering...for beeing a drunkard...extortion...stealing.etc.

Or is ETERNAL suffering right for people who stole an ipod? or for lying?





Posted 4/7/11
I feel that the suffering we face in life is the closest to Hell we will ever know. Hell is supposedly the abode of Satan, but where is the proof? Satan, like many beings, is an idea. Hell just the same. All of it was conceived as a scare tactic to control the masses.
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Posted 4/8/11
'Hell there is no Hell... In the old testament, it was created by the religious leaders later, in-order to keep people in line once people started questioning this religion. Yes Hell is a new idea in the christian religion. But don't tell a devoted christian that they will have a hart attack, and say your the devil. Its funny how little the religious know of there own religion.
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Posted 4/8/11
I think ignorence is bliss in the case of most Christians. The less they know or study of the way their religion was formed and how the texts changed over the years especially during the dark ages in Europe the better for them.

I don't think the word hell has ever been used in a bible text as far as i know. Maybe in the new testement. In old scriptures like Enoch a place called Tartarus is mentioned as a place to cast the fallen but it's refering to the watchers (later people called them angels) not actual human beings. And Tartarus comes from an old Greek legend about a place that is in darkness and below Hades. It's just one of many examples of Abrhamic religions plagurising older religions. I guess the idea of Hell comes from stuff like that but was never described as a hot burny type of place i guess that came in later because eternal darkness wasn't enough to scare people into going to church on a Sunday.
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26 / M / The Netherlands
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Posted 4/8/11
You should have thought about that before you stole my ********* ipod young man >:O
maffoo 
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35 / M / England
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Posted 4/8/11
I wouldn't call the believers sick, even though I don't share their belief. However, I do think that it would take an evil God to condemn people to eternal suffering. A finite period of suffering as penance I can understand and see as compatible with an overall good God, but not eternal.
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20 / F / library
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Posted 4/9/11
I don't believe in afterlife Hell
but there is hell in real life--> depression etc.

In religious beliefs, when we die our souls separate from our bodies. but i don't believe in that. so what i thought is that our souls are still exist in our body when we die, but that soul has 'stopped working'. So soul is just a thing that 'live' when our hearts beat. when the heart stops beating it is like 'battery runs out of power' so the soul is no longer exist. it is not like the soul is separated from the body and goes to 'other world' to receive punishments in hell. There is no soul, there is nothing to feel =S

ghosts? nyeh. i have never seen one.
Posted 4/9/11 , edited 4/11/11

maffoo wrote:

I wouldn't call the believers sick, even though I don't share their belief. However, I do think that it would take an evil God to condemn people to eternal suffering. A finite period of suffering as penance I can understand and see as compatible with an overall good God, but not eternal.

ginkou-san wrote:

I don't believe in afterlife Hell
but there is hell in real life--> depression etc.

In religious beliefs, when we die our souls separate from our bodies. but i don't believe in that. so what i thought is that our souls are still exist in our body when we die, but that soul has 'stopped working'. So soul is just a thing that 'live' when our hearts beat. when the heart stops beating it is like 'battery runs out of power' so the soul is no longer exist. it is not like the soul is separated from the body and goes to 'other world' to receive punishments in hell. There is no soul, there is nothing to feel =S

ghosts? nyeh. i have never seen one.
A personal "Hell on Earth" is the arbitrary yet negative annotation of a label. That more often than none can rob people off their positive beliefs, without themselves actually experiencing failure.

However, the opposite is also true. In the sense that personal branding without real transparency, doesn't address the lack of self-worth, or real values nor meanings.

So not only this metaphysical concept of an afterlife, where human souls either suffer in eternal damnation or bless, only distracting us from the real injustice called psychosocial inequality. Those that were supposed to be the spiritual aspect of our cultural upbringings had been for the most part, excluding and marginalizing the visible minorities through entitlement claims of self-righteousness and ethnocentrism. For without real empathy there can be no real human capacity for true compassion, both in the cultural and systemic spheres. All in all, the religious concept of the afterlife as a belief system of spiritual incentive/reward, it's actually a broken sense of self-deception that's causing more harms than good.
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31 / F / Coralville, Iowa
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Posted 4/9/11

A personal "Hell on Earth" is the arbitrary yet negative annotation of a label. That more often than none can rob people off their positive beliefs, without themselves actually experiencing failure.

However, the opposite is also true. In the sense that personal branding without real transparency, doesn't address the lack of self-worth, or real values nor meanings.

So not only this metaphysical concept of an afterlife, where human souls either suffer in eternal damnation or bless, only distracting us from the real injustice called psychosocial inequality. Those that were supposed to be the spiritual aspect of our cultural upbringings had been for the most part, excluding and marginalizing the visible minorities through entitlement claims of self-righteousness and ethnocentrism. For without real empathy there can be no real human capacity for true compassion, both in the cultural and systemic spheres. All in all, the religious concept of the afterlife as an belief system of spiritual incentive/reward, it's actually a broken sense of self-deception that's causing more harms than good.



I believe this to be true. When I was religious, I did not have empathy or compassion for other people. I believed that I was somehow above other people and that I had a right to impose my beliefs upon them because they would go to Hell if I didn't save them. I alienated and offended friends and people that I loved instead of trying to understand their situation. I judged instead of listening. In turn, years later, the same was done to me, and I finally understood how wrong I was.
Going through these things made me question the idea of Heaven and Hell, and I found myself wondering if the things I had done truly merited me burning in flames for eternity. The conclusion I came to was that my actions did not. The more I thought about it, the less there seemed a probability that there even was a God.
Over time, I have decided that there just isn't. Hell is a concept created to control people and impose standards. It is meant to keep people from drawing their own conclusions of what is right and wrong and it assumes that people are too stupid too know how to act and need to be led. After I realized this, I began to make decisions based on what I felt was right and wrong. My life has changed for the better, and I can honestly say I am a better person. I decide to do something because I know it to be right, not because I am fearful of damnation if I don't do it.
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Posted 4/9/11
Perfect people don't go to heaven. Forgiven people do. Everyone sins (the breaking of any one of the ten commandments, of which we are all guilty), but God lived on earth as a human (Jesus), died to take our punishment for sin once and for all (so that we don't have to go to hell which is the penalty for sin, that is how badly he doesn't want us to go there!), and rose from the dead proving that he is God. Over 500 people saw him after he rose from the dead. Hell was not created for people; it was created to punish satan and the angels which followed him. It was never a place God intended humans to be. He created humans out of love. If you want to accept this forgiveness, His gift of eternal life, available to all, you only need to sincerely admit to God that you know you are a sinner-that you believe that Jesus died in our place and rose again, and invite Jesus into your life, and acknowledge that he is your Lord and Savior.

- Is it more of a leap of faith to believe that God created everything, or that everything created itself out of nothing? Please feel free to PM me with ANY questions you might have. I will not judge you, and am happy to answer them. I base my faith on facts. ^_^
Posted 4/9/11 , edited 4/9/11

Cordula wrote:

Perfect people don't go to heaven. Forgiven people do. Everyone sins (the breaking of any one of the ten commandments, of which we are all guilty), but God lived on earth as a human (Jesus), died to take our punishment for sin once and for all (so that we don't have to go to hell which is the penalty for sin, that is how badly he doesn't want us to go there!), and rose from the dead proving that he is God. Over 500 people saw him after he rose from the dead. Hell was not created for people; it was created to punish satan and the angels which followed him. It was never a place God intended humans to be. He created humans out of love. If you want to accept this forgiveness, His gift of eternal life, available to all, you only need to sincerely admit to God that you know you are a sinner-that you believe that Jesus died in our place and rose again, and invite Jesus into your life, and acknowledge that he is your Lord and Savior.

- Is it more of a leap of faith to believe that God created everything, or that everything created itself out of nothing? Please feel free to PM me with ANY questions you might have. I will not judge you, and am happy to answer them. I base my faith on facts. ^_^
The moment you decided to publicly preach organized religion, privacy is out of the window. And with that being said, I'll get right to the point about how your God is not great. When the fact is He's in every sense a self-righteous egotist, who intended to create objects in order to show off to His imperfect creations just how "loving" and "forgiving" He can be. But only to those who would listen and obey whatever He commands. No exception, no alternative, no inclusiveness, no diversity.

And you want me to spend all eternity with that control freak? I would rather rot on Earth and finally be a part of its diverse biosphere, then to blindly follow someone with bad leadership skills.
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Posted 4/10/11
Please allow me to explain that I do not participate in “Organized Religion.” When I pray it is from my heart, I don’t recite chants in which I can’t place meaning in my words. God himself said the only religion He believes in is the caring of orphans and widows. If you want, I can put up the exact reference. A church is a place where believers gather together. It is not a building with four walls. I feel closest to God when among His creation. A gentle breeze, the colors of spring that we are now experiencing, and soft rainfall make me feel close to God. Why would God give us a free will and a heaven in which to someday dwell if He is who you say?

If there was not a sin barrier between humans and God, imagine what “heaven” would be like. I can visualize only the most profound pain and suffering that occurs when people do evil on earth. I have read in so many places, people saying, “There is no God,” May I not also say “There is a God” and discuss it calmly and honestly? This is why I invited people to PM me. I want to hear what people have to say, and explore their evidence, while offering my own.

Thank you for quoting me. I mean this sincerely and without arrogance. I enjoy searching for truth and the points you bring up are things I want to explore further because even though I feel that God has given me a life of peace and happiness, I see that this is not how many people feel about God. That is why I want to explore it - to see our differences and discover why these differences occur. I have put up some evidence that leads me to make a calculated leap of faith, and believe what I do. It includes observations on Macroevolution and the Law of Probability among other things. I would like to see any evidence you have that has caused you to place your faith in what you believe. Yet again I say this with sincerity. I try to be open minded, please extend this courtesy to me as well:

http://www.crunchyroll.com/user/Cordula#s=/user/Cordula/pages%3Fextra_param%3D8589981817
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Posted 4/10/11
God himself said that huh? Bit arogant to believe you know what a God says isn't it? And how do you know 500 people saw Jesus rise from the dead? Were you there? I find it ironic that a person who bases their faith on facts quotes these things when they are clearly not facts.

The story of Jesus is almost a carbon copy of the story of the story of Horus in the ancient Egyptian religion and also the story of Buddha both of which were around long before Jesus was supposively born and several centuries before Abrahamic religions came out. The fact the Jews say they came out of Egypt probably means they copied the Egyptian beliefs and changed the names around to glorify their new religion. Christianity of course absorbed beliefs of other religions since the Romans were around conquering and they oftem used to assimilate the religion of the places they took over like Egypt. Down the line it assimilates Abrahamic religion and mixes it with some of the Celtic religions in Europe and you get Christianity.

Believe in what you wish but do not preach and then claim you base your ideas on facts. What i have just said are facts based on historical accounts and proper research. Your facts are based on the bible which is a plagurised work used to control an Empire. And also your own beliefs.
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Posted 4/10/11 , edited 4/10/11

MrMoondoggie wrote:

God himself said that huh? Bit arogant to believe you know what a God says isn't it? *And how do you know 500 people saw Jesus rise from the dead? Were you there? I find it ironic that a person who bases their faith on facts quotes these things when they are clearly not facts.

The story of Jesus is almost a carbon copy of the story of the story of Horus in the ancient Egyptian religion and also the story of Buddha both of which were around long before Jesus was supposively born and several centuries before Abrahamic religions came out. The fact the Jews say they came out of Egypt probably means they copied the Egyptian beliefs and changed the names around to glorify their new religion. Christianity of course absorbed beliefs of other religions since the Romans were around conquering and they oftem used to assimilate the religion of the places they took over like Egypt. Down the line it assimilates Abrahamic religion and mixes it with some of the Celtic religions in Europe and you get Christianity.

Believe in what you wish but do not preach and then claim you base your ideas on facts. What i have just said are facts based on historical accounts and proper research. Your facts are based on the bible which is a plagurised work used to control an Empire. And also your own beliefs.


I have read the Golden Bough by Frazer and the White Goddess, a historical grammer of poetic myth by Robert Graves and compared them to the Bible. I don't see it as conclusive evidence that the Bible has copied other myths, I think the opposite is true. I am aware of Chirstian's taking over pagan holidays and such in attempts to stop paganism, but the way I view Christianity is very simplistic and non materialistic.

I have no desire to shove my religion down your throat. This is my reference of God's view on "pure religion" - Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being poluted by the world. (James 1:27) I wanted to simply show how people view hell from a Christian point of view. You can take it or leave it. I obviously don't know everything, and I'm not pretending to. This information doesn't explain everything obviously, but it is enough for me.
This is why I believe in God:



This is why I believe the Bible:


*I did not say they saw him rise from the dead. I said they saw him after he rose from the dead.
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Posted 4/10/11
No conclusive evidence? The stories are identical. And these stories came about centuries before the story of Jesus. Oh and i find that passage about Allah laughable. Allah and God are the same thing. So are you calling your own God a cruel unloving judge? I guess by God's track record in the bible i agree with you. God seems to enjoy judging his own "children" and destroying them.

And for the record Buddhists believe in self improvement and that nobody is superior to anyone else. We all have the ability to become enlightened and evolve beyond the chains of human existance. Buddhists don't believe in a superior super being and that is impossible for any other person to become as enlightened as that.

I also find it sort of ironic that you are a vegan and for animal rights when your God in the bible promotes the sacrifice of animals
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