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Posted 4/27/11 , edited 4/27/11
If a villain does a crime against the laws of your society to benefit mankind is he still a bad guy?
As an example, If I was to have rig the lottery in order to win it, then intern used that money to invest and create a new clean, safe, and free power source for the hole world..

Am I still a bad guy?

YES or NO, and why is that in your opinion?




On another note.. Is a villain who is willing to brake the law necessary in order to improve society? Or is their another way to aid man kind without the need to brake out of today's Societies limitations, and barriers?

Posted 4/27/11

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

If a villain does a crime against the laws of your society to benefit mankind is he still a bad guy?
As an example, If I was to have rig the lottery in order to win it, then intern used that money to invest and create a new clean, safe, and free power source for the hole world..

Am I still a bad guy?

YES or NO, and why is that in your opinion?




On another note.. Is a villain who is willing to brake the law necessary in order to improve society? Or is their another way to aid man kind without the need to brake out of today's Societies limitations, and barriers?
"When the end doesn't justify the means, it's the thought that counts." -By me.

What you just described from the onset appears to be a white collar crime, aka corruption behind a mirage of security, fairness, purity, and social norms. It's thereby glorified stealing all the same.
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Posted 4/27/11

DomFortress wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

If a villain does a crime against the laws of your society to benefit mankind is he still a bad guy?
As an example, If I was to have rig the lottery in order to win it, then intern used that money to invest and create a new clean, safe, and free power source for the hole world..

Am I still a bad guy?

YES or NO, and why is that in your opinion?




On another note.. Is a villain who is willing to brake the law necessary in order to improve society? Or is their another way to aid man kind without the need to brake out of today's Societies limitations, and barriers?
"When the end doesn't justify the means, it's the thought that counts." -By me.

What you just described from the onset appears to be a white collar crime, aka corruption behind a mirage of security, fairness, purity, and social norms. It's thereby glorified stealing all the same.


white collar crime, aka corruption Seem to be helping each other, with no harmful side affects. Its more cheating through compassion for each other. In order to prevent a negative action from coming to be.
this kind of crime I can accept because it is not to harm others for their own gain, but instead to help each other.

I don't think of cheating as a crime wen it for the benefit of your fellow man. I think of it more as a necessary action do to how society as hole is set up in order to benefit a fellow man/woman.

Because today's societies are ill equipped for the benefit of all man kind, instead they only cater to small groups.
AKA.. a "Fake Security" for most.

Posted 4/27/11

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

"When the end doesn't justify the means, it's the thought that counts." -By me.

What you just described from the onset appears to be a white collar crime, aka corruption behind a mirage of security, fairness, purity, and social norms. It's thereby glorified stealing all the same.


white collar crime, aka corruption Seem to be helping each other, with no harmful side affects. Its more cheating through compassion for each other. In order to prevent a negative action from coming to be.
this kind of crime I can accept because it is not to harm others for their own gain, but instead to help each other.

I don't think of cheating as a crime wen it for the benefit of your fellow man. I think of it more as a necessary action do to how society as hole is set up in order to benefit a fellow man/woman.

Because today's societies are ill equipped for the benefit of all man kind, instead they only cater to small groups.
AKA.. a "Fake Security" for most.
Tell that to those who lost their entire life-savings due to white-collar crime. Or others that are still suffering from psychosocial inequality, due to the many lies told by those who pretended to be serving for their best interest/incentive. When appearance can be deceiving, you insisting that white-collar crime is a victimless crime OTOH, doesn't deceive me one bit from the fact that you rigged a lottery in order for yourself to win in the first place.
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Posted 4/27/11

DomFortress wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

"When the end doesn't justify the means, it's the thought that counts." -By me.

What you just described from the onset appears to be a white collar crime, aka corruption behind a mirage of security, fairness, purity, and social norms. It's thereby glorified stealing all the same.


white collar crime, aka corruption Seem to be helping each other, with no harmful side affects. Its more cheating through compassion for each other. In order to prevent a negative action from coming to be.
this kind of crime I can accept because it is not to harm others for their own gain, but instead to help each other.

I don't think of cheating as a crime wen it for the benefit of your fellow man. I think of it more as a necessary action do to how society as hole is set up in order to benefit a fellow man/woman.

Because today's societies are ill equipped for the benefit of all man kind, instead they only cater to small groups.
AKA.. a "Fake Security" for most.
Tell that to those who lost their entire life-savings due to white-collar crime. Or others that are still suffering from psychosocial inequality, due to the many lies told by those who pretended to be serving for their best interest/incentive. When appearance can be deceiving, you insisting that white-collar crime is a victimless crime OTOH, doesn't deceive me one bit from the fact that you rigged a lottery in order for yourself to win in the first place.

As a example..

But who is to say anyone would have won the money in the first place... Most people who win spend it on big house, boat, and go through there money, doing nothing to benefit anyone other than to use it for their own materialistic needs.

On the other note, I do not think Cheating to save fellow sumo rustlers, have any negative side affects. Wen it benefits both sides in the end.



Does not the ENDS Justify the Means.

In this case, Free, Safe, clean, Power for everyone (ends)
(means) rigging a lottery that the odds of you winning is less likely than being attacked by two bears in the same day, at different times in a city.
Posted 4/27/11 , edited 4/27/11

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


As a example..

But who is to say anyone would have won the money in the first place... Most people who win spend it on big house, boat, and go through there money, doing nothing to benefit anyone other than to use it for their own materialistic needs.

On the other note, I do not think Cheating to save fellow sumo rustlers, have any negative side affects. Wen it benefits both sides in the end.



Does not the ENDS Justify the Means.

In this case, Free, Safe, clean, Power for everyone (ends)
(means) rigging a lottery that the odds of you winning is less likely than being attacked by two bears in the same day, at different times in a city.
You still don't get it, that kinda intentional cheating with certainty will payout as sure win in gambling. Which is another word for money-laundering, aka artificial currency inflation that benefits no one in the long run. The moment you rigged a currency model to artificially inflate its worth, without real collateral to represent its worthiness, you made the said currency essentially worthless. Which playing the odds got nothing to do with it. Case in point, how do you justify yourself needing "money" as a means, in order for yourself to create a power source that's meant to be "free" in the end?

Also, how do you justify those who got their life destroyed, for themselves exposing the truth about the said corruptions? Stop thinking in short-term, or else you'll never out-think me.
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Posted 4/27/11

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

If a villain does a crime against the laws of your society to benefit mankind is he still a bad guy?
As an example, If I was to have rig the lottery in order to win it, then intern used that money to invest and create a new clean, safe, and free power source for the hole world..

Am I still a bad guy?

YES or NO, and why is that in your opinion?



If the money is used purely for the benefit of society, then arguably not. There is however a grey area; if you were to benefit personally (for example, using some of the money to treat yourself, even if the bulk of it still went into the technology) you could still be seen as a villain.

Also, if you hadn't rigged the lottery someone may have received a life-changing windfall which could have dragged them out of poverty, or perhaps paid for a medical procedure for them or a relative etc. There would be no way to know for sure, and while your invention would be more beneficial to society as a whole you may still have condemned an individual to continued suffering.



On another note.. Is a villain who is willing to brake the law necessary in order to improve society? Or is their another way to aid man kind without the need to brake out of today's Societies limitations, and barriers?



Breaking the law can sometimes make a big enough impact and highlight issues to bring about change. For example, I think the Suffragettes were breaking the law, but they helped to get the vote for British women.

In some cases only breaking the law can bring about change. If you live in a brutal dictatorship, it is almost certainly illegal to speak out against the government, so there is no other way to bring about change.
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Posted 4/27/11 , edited 4/27/11

DomFortress wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


As a example..

But who is to say anyone would have won the money in the first place... Most people who win spend it on big house, boat, and go through there money, doing nothing to benefit anyone other than to use it for their own materialistic needs.

On the other note, I do not think Cheating to save fellow sumo rustlers, have any negative side affects. Wen it benefits both sides in the end.



Does not the ENDS Justify the Means.

In this case, Free, Safe, clean, Power for everyone (ends)
(means) rigging a lottery that the odds of you winning is less likely than being attacked by two bears in the same day, at different times in a city.
You still don't get it, that kinda intentional cheating with certainty will payout as sure win in gambling. Which is another word for money-laundering, aka artificial currency inflation that benefits no one in the long run. The moment you rigged a currency model to artificially inflate its worth, without real collateral to represent its worthiness, you made the said currency essentially worthless. Which playing the odds got nothing to do with it. Case in point, how do you justify yourself needing "money", to create a power source that's meant to be "free" in the end?

Also, how do you justify those who got their life destroyed, for themselves exposing the truth about the said corruptions? Stop thinking in short-term, or else you'll never out-think me.


1. Not adding more money into the system.. only money that would have been introduced in the first place.
2. The money is being used to benefit everyone not just a single person materialistic needs.
3. Long term benefits for everyone, economically. But this is not about the Lottery Idea.

In the end in your eyes people like Robin Hood are Criminals.
People who do crime in order for the greater good all man kind is a poor reason to do crime against a failing system such as the monetary system.


Explain How their lives would have been destroyed? The only people who would be affected mid term would be the people who have invested in the Oil industries, and nuclear power plants.
But in the end those people can use what funds they have already leached of the people with their expensive, more harmful power sources, to invest in other areas.
As for the others who are known as the grunts (short term.. I guess they might have to find new jobs!) but long term the benefits of cheaper clean power, for everyone around the world no would help the economy and well being of all the people, not just a small party.

Don't forget wile my English grammar still ruff, I am a scientist with Degrees in more than one subject. (all my ideals are based on Long Term benefits, for not just a few people but for everyone.)
Now I tell you why one would need the money to create something that I plan to make moderately free for everyone.


1. In today's society nothing goes without a cost.. That includes Projects, even if it would benefit everyone.
Cost for setup, research, necessary material list, and construction. (lottery will not be enough but it would be a good investment adding in other investors, (aka stock in the product.) On top of that cost for getting the papers the start such a project. (I well be after all taking away the governments monopoly in the space program. Not something that I would gain cheaply thanks to are society.)

2. Long term... enough for you, lets find-out? Other than building a power plant on the moon and beaming the power to devices through wave frequencies to everyone on earth, for a very lower all around set price.. 2.5% of today's power consumption per-population cost. (maintenance fees.) Other than that 97.5% free. So say on average world wide that a person spends $100 a week on power.. Now everyone pays $2.50 a week on energy bill.. lot cheaper, saving money for people to spend on other things, improving the economy. (right!) But that is not all, The moon power plant, also doubles as a staging spot for other space programs, a pit stop if you will.. lowering future cost for space exploration and research programs, long term adding in new jobs, such as building a base on mars, and even mining and other resource programs. Also is a long term green environmental benefits. oil based burning from transportation, and plants have been removed, eliminating a lot of the pollution humans greed and materialistic attitudes have created. (I don't think I can change peoples materialistic personalities, what I can do is create a means to limit its environmental damage.

So yes My plans are far from short term. My Ideals come in layers, creating a very long term goal. (targeted for not just my benefit but everyone's. )

You can say I am trying to save people from people. Even if I have to play the role of villain. (comic book super villain stereotype yes but Its a necessary evil in order to change society for the better. )



Than again this is just an example!

Posted 4/27/11 , edited 4/27/11

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


DomFortress wrote:

You still don't get it, that kinda intentional cheating with certainty will payout as sure win in gambling. Which is another word for money-laundering, aka artificial currency inflation that benefits no one in the long run. The moment you rigged a currency model to artificially inflate its worth, without real collateral to represent its worthiness, you made the said currency essentially worthless. Which playing the odds got nothing to do with it. Case in point, how do you justify yourself needing "money", to create a power source that's meant to be "free" in the end?

Also, how do you justify those who got their life destroyed, for themselves exposing the truth about the said corruptions? Stop thinking in short-term, or else you'll never out-think me.


1. Not adding more money into the system.. only money that would have been introduced in the first place.
2. The money is being used to benefit everyone not just a single person materialistic needs.
3. Long term benefits for everyone, economically. But this is not about the Lottery Idea.

In the end in your eyes people like Robin Hood are Criminals.
People who do crime in order for the greater good all man kind is a poor reason to do crime against a failing system such as the monetary system.

Explain How their lives would have been destroyed? The only people who would be affected mid term would be the people who have invested in the Oil industries, and nuclear power plants.
But in the end those people can use what funds they have already leached of the people with their expensive, more harmful power sources, to invest in other areas.
As for the others who are known as the grunts (short term.. I guess they might have to find new jobs!) but long term the benefits of cheaper clean power, for everyone around the world no would help the economy and well being of all the people, not just a small party.


Don't forget wile my English grammar still ruff, I am a scientist with Degrees in more than one subject. (all my ideals are based on Long Term benefits, for not just a few people but for everyone.)
Now I tell you why one would need the money to create something that I plan to make moderately free for everyone.

1. In today's society nothing goes without a cost.. That includes Projects, even if it would benefit everyone.
Cost for setup, research, necessary material list, and construction. (lottery will not be enough but it would be a good investment adding in other investors, (aka stock in the product.) On top of that cost for getting the papers the start such a project. (I well be after all taking away the governments monopoly in the space program. Not something that I would gain cheaply thanks to are society.)

2. Long term... enough for you, lets find-out? Other than building a power plant on the moon and beaming the power to devices through wave frequencies to everyone on earth, for a very lower all around set price.. 2.5% of today's power consumption per-population cost. (maintenance fees.) Other than that 97.5% free. So say on average world wide that a person spends $100 a week on power.. Now everyone pays $2.50 a week on energy bill.. lot cheaper, saving money for people to spend on other things, improving the economy. (right!) But that is not all, The moon power plant, also doubles as a staging spot for other space programs, a pit stop if you will.. lowering future cost for space exploration and research programs, long term adding in new jobs, such as building a base on mars, and even mining and other resource programs. Also is a long term green environmental benefits. oil based burning from transportation, and plants have been removed, eliminating a lot of the pollution humans greed and materialistic attitudes have created. (I don't think I can change peoples materialistic personalities, what I can do is create a means to limit its environmental damage.


So yes My plans are far from short term. My Ideals come in layers, creating a very long term goal. (targeted for not just my benefit but everyone's. )

You can say I am trying to save people from people. Even if I have to play the role of villain. (comic book super villain stereotype yes but Its a necessary evil in order to change society for the better. )



Than again this is just an example!
No, I treat Robin Hood as a fictional character, irrelevant towards the real worth of currency itself as a conceptual model. AKA a mirage of security.

How does one privatize the Sun? While ownership is a human "cultural" concept, designed with the sole intention of managing "surplus" throughout the history of human civilization, within the context of human "food" production. So why is it that "naturally" formed yet "finite" energy resources, can be somehow managed as some sorta "surplus"?

In other words, nature only manages its resources with the simple principles of efficiency, thrifty, and reciprocity. Not currency. While your "carrot and stick" monetary incentive will only backfire on jobs that require thinking skill. Not to mention that patent laws are counter-intuitive towards collaborative open-source development. That's how you can destroy everyone's life with incentives that don't work.
Posted 4/28/11
... A villain is someone with little to no redeeming qualities.

Moral dilemmas are exactly what they are, dilemmas. Morals can weigh down the effectiveness of something. If the individual has morals that forbid stealing from anyone (including the rich), then they'd have to find another method to aid the community.

Someone with fewer moral dilemmas are more likely to actually aid the community, because their ethnics are straight-cut and don't make exceptions.

If I killed gangs off, then I would be aiding the community positively even if that was manslaughter. But I can personally sleep with that, better then children getting drugs or women getting raped and beaten. Or worse, murder of the beneficial people in the community.

You can argue fucking semantics all day long about what qualifies as villainy, but you won't be able to because it is a subjective matter. It could be anyone that breaks the law, or someone that does nothing but perpetuate destruction without aiding the community.

I prefer the grey and gray morality, personally.

Also, DomFortress, don't bother responding to this if you are just going to call me out. I'm not interested in you trying to be a machine, and I don't want to hear how or why you think I'm the dumbest thing alive for thinking like I do. I personally don't give a rat's ass. That's all.
Posted 4/28/11

Lauriet wrote:

... A villain is someone with little to no redeeming qualities.

Moral dilemmas are exactly what they are, dilemmas. Morals can weigh down the effectiveness of something. If the individual has morals that forbid stealing from anyone (including the rich), then they'd have to find another method to aid the community.

Someone with fewer moral dilemmas are more likely to actually aid the community, because their ethnics are straight-cut and don't make exceptions.

If I killed gangs off, then I would be aiding the community positively even if that was manslaughter. But I can personally sleep with that, better then children getting drugs or women getting raped and beaten. Or worse, murder of the beneficial people in the community.

You can argue fucking semantics all day long about what qualifies as villainy, but you won't be able to because it is a subjective matter. It could be anyone that breaks the law, or someone that does nothing but perpetuate destruction without aiding the community.

I prefer the grey and gray morality, personally.

Also, DomFortress, don't bother responding to this if you are just going to call me out. I'm not interested in you trying to be a machine, and I don't want to hear how or why you think I'm the dumbest thing alive for thinking like I do. I personally don't give a rat's ass. That's all.


I, however, will respond.

I see morality as being entirely objective and always open to discussion, and villains make some of the most intriguing people of all time. The purpose they serve, among many, is to give meaning to heroes. Like it or not, we adore villains for their audacity. Their cunning and complete dedication to their ways is hardly rivaled. A true villain stops at nothing, no matter how insidious the end.

A villain with good intentions is a hard thing to define. We think of Robin Hood, but there are other ideas. A heretic against a false order, perhaps. This is one would be a challenge to anyone, especially if you attempted it alone.
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Posted 5/2/11

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

If a villain does a crime against the laws of your society to benefit mankind is he still a bad guy?
As an example, If I was to have rig the lottery in order to win it, then intern used that money to invest and create a new clean, safe, and free power source for the hole world..

Am I still a bad guy?

YES or NO, and why is that in your opinion?




On another note.. Is a villain who is willing to brake the law necessary in order to improve society? Or is their another way to aid man kind without the need to brake out of today's Societies limitations, and barriers?



it's a grey area. Dr Martin Luther King, Hitler,Jesus,Geogre W Bush, Ghandi, Stalin,Osama Bin Laden, ect. Were all considered heroes and villians at some point in time. They broke out of thier societies rules in order to bring about change. They saw the laws of thier country or other countries as injustice and fought against it. The benefit that came from it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu7GMMIfvoo&feature=related

was it worth the price? I don't know. Kill 11 million people, save 3 times as more with data for future generations.

U can claim the lottery doesn't really hurt anybody, and the ends justify the means. But where does it end? If you truly feel it is for the good of the world and is worth ruining lives over...go for it. peace over war
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Posted 7/26/11
Those are called antiheroes.
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Posted 7/27/11 , edited 7/27/11
rule-based, it's wrong.
care-based, it's alright.
religion-based, ur doing is wrong but it's for others' benefit... not sure....

in the lottery case,
if the lottery's not such a big deal, then if you succeed your power plan then i believe most of the big people will support it. but if we see our society, most likely there will be critics....especially from religious organizations.

i don't think it's wrong, but laws are made to protect the society and blah blah. i think it'll also cause more controversies based on "why can you break the laws and why we can't".

about the other question,
if you'd define villain, that means that person has done something that make others displeased.
people can go protest and campaigns and stuff to make a request for erasing the law, but the chance for its succession is low, i think.
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Posted 7/27/11
For some you will be the villain, and for some you'll be the 'nice guy'. Ever wondered why all those countries haven't invested much money into solar, wind and other 'green' energy resources? Because it's not in their interests. Most importantly, it's not in the interests of those major companies that handle exactly that aspect of society: the supply of energy. The 'ungreen' lobby is still too big and is still the background voice of too many important societal entities.
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