Osama bin Laden killed
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Posted 5/1/11 , edited 5/1/11
Source:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256676

My question to you all is: was it really worth it to go out of our (meaning the US and some of the US's allies) way to kill Osama bin Laden? We have spent almost a decade hunting this man down, spending god knows how much money in the process, probably also in the process causing additional unrest and hatred against the USA and its citizens and not to mention the many innocent civilian casualties.

And what will his death give us in return? Surely, this provides us with a sorts of morale victory, and perhaps even a moral victory too. And that's all well and good, but what about the more concrete rewards/consequences?

Discuss.

EDIT:
This topic is about the CONSEQUENCES of this event, and how they relate to the PRICE we paid to achieve this victory. This topic isn't about how great or evil the US is (as I'm sure the General Discussion topics on this event will surely devolve into).
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Posted 5/1/11
What is moral about killing?

How is fighting fire with fire and winning a true victory? PEACE is a true victory, and that has not been achieved.

Violence is not something to bring joy. Death isn't something to celebrate. We shouldn't be happy and boosted morale over the death of someone.

What does all this give us? More hatred? Certainly doesn't give us back the lives lost of innocent people from American and the Middle East.

I can't really see much good coming from this, so someone feel free to enlighten me.
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Posted 5/1/11 , edited 5/1/11
what's done is done we shouldn't dwell on the past.

now there's one less excuse to remain in the middle east. maybe now we can start on more pressing matters like our economy for instance


MelodieLenora wrote:

What is moral about killing?

How is fighting fire with fire and winning a true victory? PEACE is a true victory, and that has not been achieved.

Violence is not something to bring joy. Death isn't something to celebrate. We shouldn't be happy and boosted morale over the death of someone.

What does all this give us? More hatred? Certainly doesn't give us back the lives lost of innocent people from American and the Middle East.

I can't really see much good coming from this, so someone feel free to enlighten me.


animals kill animals we are no different other than by what means we go by doing it

have you any idea how many years of "peace" we have had in our entire recorded history? i'd guess around a 1000 years and thats being generous

call me what you will but in all honesty we need war... its the only thing other than time that helps cut our population down efficiently we already eliminated the major diseases save a few perhaps, we live longer with all the medical advances, etc. without war we would collapse under the weight of our own overpopulation

Posted 5/2/11 , edited 5/2/11

Taedrin wrote:

Source:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13256676

My question to you all is: was it really worth it to go out of our (meaning the US and some of the US's allies) way to kill Osama bin Laden? We have spent almost a decade hunting this man down, spending god knows how much money in the process, probably also in the process causing additional unrest and hatred against the USA and its citizens and not to mention the many innocent civilian casualties.

And what will his death give us in return? Surely, this provides us with a sorts of morale victory, and perhaps even a moral victory too. And that's all well and good, but what about the more concrete rewards/consequences?

Discuss.

EDIT:
This topic is about the CONSEQUENCES of this event, and how they relate to the PRICE we paid to achieve this victory. This topic isn't about how great or evil the US is (as I'm sure the General Discussion topics on this event will surely devolve into).
He's but one symbol of "terrorism" portrait by the mainstream media, and filtered by the majority's own confirmation bias. Therefore his death is but a mere mirage of security. Within the context of institutionalized terrorism sustained by dangerous memes. Which BTW would required something other than war to resolve.

So just as how the death of Hitler didn't resolve war as an institution that feeds on human confirmation bias. The death of Osama bin Laden ultimately solved nothing.


MelodieLenora wrote:

What is moral about killing?

How is fighting fire with fire and winning a true victory? PEACE is a true victory, and that has not been achieved.

Violence is not something to bring joy. Death isn't something to celebrate. We shouldn't be happy and boosted morale over the death of someone.

What does all this give us? More hatred? Certainly doesn't give us back the lives lost of innocent people from American and the Middle East.

I can't really see much good coming from this, so someone feel free to enlighten me.
I'm afraid that's beyond me, for I both empathize and agree with your long-term assessment on this vicious cycle. While empathy just might be the one and only chance at real peace, through truth and reconciliation. Which no amount of gloating over a symbolic death could achieve.


uhohimdead wrote:

what's done is done we shouldn't dwell on the past.

now there's one less excuse to remain in the middle east. maybe now we can start on more pressing matters like our economy for instance


MelodieLenora wrote:

What is moral about killing?

How is fighting fire with fire and winning a true victory? PEACE is a true victory, and that has not been achieved.

Violence is not something to bring joy. Death isn't something to celebrate. We shouldn't be happy and boosted morale over the death of someone.

What does all this give us? More hatred? Certainly doesn't give us back the lives lost of innocent people from American and the Middle East.

I can't really see much good coming from this, so someone feel free to enlighten me.


animals kill animals we are no different other than by what means we go by doing it

have you any idea how many years of "peace" we have had in our entire recorded history? i'd guess around a 1000 years and thats being generous

call me what you will but in all honesty we need war... its the only thing other than time that helps cut our population down efficiently we already eliminated the major diseases save a few perhaps, we live longer with all the medical advances, etc. without war we would collapse under the weight of our own overpopulation
Animals don't go into war and cause genocide, while humans OTOH still don't fully understand collectively why the needs for Jus In Bello. Let along learning from the past mistakes of wars due to themselves intentionally violated those laws.

Finally, the overpopulation of the human specie was caused by men having total control over women's reproductive function through patriarchy and capitalism. Not due to lack of wars. In fact, both rampant capitalist and status competitions drive wasteful consumption, much like a war-machine that's powered by infinite growth. Human population included.
Posted 5/2/11
Very early here, this news of Bin Laden and the consequences of said 'death' just leaves me with the feeling of being a very small
branch on an Orwelllian tree.....1984.

War, big brother, you know the book, you know the story..

The dogs of war have long away been unhooked from the demonic hand....so,
will this one human change the world and war and rumors of war....highly doubtful...

as for women and the overpopulation of the world????

mother earth seems to have kicked in her own type of birth control....an upheaving of herself....

one man is dead...

I for one did not see him die...

so be it...

and so the rivers will run and the sun, moon and stars shall be in their places...

and I go...
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Posted 5/2/11

DomFortress wrote:


Animals don't go into war and cause genocide, while humans OTOH still don't fully understand collectively why the needs for Jus In Bello. Let along learning from the past mistakes of wars due to themselves intentionally violated those laws.

Finally, the overpopulation of the human specie was caused by men having total control over women's reproductive function through patriarchy and capitalism. Not due to lack of wars. In fact, both capitalism and rampant status competition drive wasteful consumerism, much like a war-machine that's powered by infinite growth. Human population included.



i never said anything about the cause of overpopulation only that war helps cut down on it regardless of the cause i still stand on the notion that war is necessary
Posted 5/2/11 , edited 5/2/11

uhohimdead wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Animals don't go into war and cause genocide, while humans OTOH still don't fully understand collectively why the needs for Jus In Bello. Let along learning from the past mistakes of wars due to themselves intentionally violated those laws.

Finally, the overpopulation of the human specie was caused by men having total control over women's reproductive function through patriarchy and capitalism. Not due to lack of wars. In fact, both rampant capitalist and status competitions drive wasteful consumerism, much like a war-machine that's powered by infinite growth. Human population included.



i never said anything about the cause of overpopulation only that war helps cut down on it regardless of the cause i still stand on the notion that war is necessary
That's not the point I'm making, when what I meant is that overpopulation is the direct result of different types of warfare, masked as competitions; the gender war and the economic war. And as always, this war-machine demands consumption.
Posted 5/2/11 , edited 5/2/11
@@@@@i hope all of you american gay pigs die! quote for LoliTA...lol

I didn't know pigs were gay in USA...

ps...Osama is lying UNDER a rock right now....buzzrds wouldn't even touch that dude....

dum de dum dum...

maffoo 
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Posted 5/2/11
On the one hand I can't say I'm sorry to see him go, and it is a small symbolic victory against Al Qaeda. On the other hand, I can see him becoming seen as a martyr and for the rest of the organisation to use his death to rally the troops and carry out revenge attacks.
Posted 5/2/11
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