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Lucifer was framed
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19 / F / New York
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Posted 5/17/11
I have been studying the Bible for the past few days and I noticed something.

The real protagonist of the story is Lucifer (satan), and the antagonist is God.

When God created his creatures, he gave them the freedom of choice, because he didn't want them to be like robots. But Lucifer was tossed into Hell because he fought for a democracy in Heaven. He was punished for doing what he thought was right. This is clearly a violation to God's freedom of choice that he wanted all creatures to have. If it really was a free choice, there wouldn't have been a punishment. A modern day comparison of this would be a father asking his son if he loved him, and if the son said no the father would throw his son into an oven and cook him. Clearly this is wrong.

Lucifer (in the Bible) is the protagonist because he was standing up for what he thought was right, exercising his freedoms, trying to make the ignorant realize that the seven deadly sins (lust, wrath, greed, sloth, pride, envy, and gluttony) are all normal emotions that all humans are bound to feel in some point of their life. So if we follow according to those rules, we all have committed sins which means we're all going to Hell.

God (in the Bible) is the antagonist because he doesn't want to lose his followers. He continues to be hypocritical, brainwashing everyone to believe and love him, threatening them with being sent to Hell if they don't. He's also restricting humans to live as they wish, making them bottle up their emotions within themselves (which isn't very healthy). In the end, he was just an egotistical sadist.

opinions on this? agree/disagree and why?

an apology in advance if I offend any religious people, that was not my intention at all.
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Posted 5/17/11 , edited 5/17/11
I have not much to say as I'm trying to think more on this..but In a democracy such as what we have here in the US..I believe lol. Do we REALLY have a good place? Look at what is going on with our country. If such a place were to exist in heaven, which according to you, Lucifer fought to have democracy, would actually not be a way of freedom. Which is what God wants for his people. Plus, I don't think that God is "threatening" people to follow him. If anything, he wants humans to live their life to the best they can. I mean, Jesus died for us, so that we may live our life in peace. From this, i was able to make out that we as people, would be accepted by God for fulling what he has given us, Life. I might but completely wrong, but that is what i got from reading what you have put together. I would like to hear more on what you find though. Btw, i do disagree what your findings if i wasn't clear
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17 / M / boys locker room
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Posted 5/17/11
Thanks for speaking my thoughts But I'm not a Christian or a Catholic, so I really have no say in this.
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21 / F / England, UK
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Posted 5/17/11
I'm not very knowledgable and you can correct me if i'm wrong. i think the main aim was He gave the free will so that they can chose to accept Him for the creator that He is. However, He saw as a chief angel he saw he was doing a lot of things (for Him). So he thought that if he could do ithe things of the Almigty , he could become The Almighty. Basically it can be read as him rebeling and tryin to overthrow Him.

The thing about human nature is that nature can be ugly. Even though things like

the seven deadly sins (lust, wrath, greed, sloth, pride, envy, and gluttony) are all normal emotions that all humans are bound to feel in some point of their life.
. They almost always end up affecting someone else. Problem is, for example, if someone if jeaalous they might habour bad feelings for that person and end up hurting them. At the end of the day the other person gets hurt and has to face the repercussion of your envy. God hears the cry of the person suffering and then will diliver justice for the wronged. thats what I think it is . This is just my view.
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19 / F / New York
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Posted 5/17/11
It is kind of threatening..every time I see a Christian they're always talking about how all the nonbelievers will burn in Hell and if he wanted freedom of choice then there would be no punishment for not believing in him..
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21 / F / England, UK
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Posted 5/17/11
yeah hell fire christians can be scary but, what can you do? peoples are just peoples
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20 / M / Lindsay CA
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Posted 5/17/11

-yukin wrote:

It is kind of threatening..every time I see a Christian they're always talking about how all the nonbelievers will burn in Hell and if he wanted freedom of choice then there would be no punishment for not believing in him..


They might be Christian, but do they actually understand the teachings? If God was threatening us, why would there be followers? If Lucifer was the one trying to help us, why does he use such evil things to do so?
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19 / F / New York
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Posted 5/17/11
I don't see the seven deadly sins as affecting others and never really thought about it like that (I don't try to hurt other people) so I can see what you're saying about God bringing justice being a good thing. But the justice is them burning in Hell for eternity, which is over the top. or is there some kind of lesser punishment?
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Posted 5/17/11 , edited 5/17/11
I like the OP's opinion on the matter. No I'm not Christian or Satanist or whatever.. so I'm not really detailed in the matter, but I know enough to have a decent understanding about it. So if the OP stated the facts correctly, then yes I agree with her.

Lucifer challenged God's power, and he was sent to hell because God felt threatened (?) by Lucifer. (feel free to correct me on this one)
People don't try to reason with God's power, or else they will be sent to hell, just like Lucifer.
With that mindset, people hate Lucifer for the sole reason that God rejected him. Then people demonize him and turn him into a monster when in reality, all he did was challenge God.
That's a bit lame yeah? Whatev, freedom of belief and all that stuff.

(btw, I haven't seen a thread with this much intellectual potential in the general section in a LOOONG time. Good job OP)
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19 / F / New York
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Posted 5/17/11

10mejia wrote:


-yukin wrote:

It is kind of threatening..every time I see a Christian they're always talking about how all the nonbelievers will burn in Hell and if he wanted freedom of choice then there would be no punishment for not believing in him..


They might be Christian, but do they actually understand the teachings? If God was threatening us, why would there be followers? If Lucifer was the one trying to help us, why does he use such evil things to do so?


Again, the bible is really biased, and it is written to portray God as the good and Lucifer as the evil. Lucifer does evil things because he has had evil things done to himself and he's angry. He doesn't know how to control it.

God is a very convincing character but if you think about it he really sounds too good to be true, I think Lucifer is more human, just his emotions tend to get the best of him. I really almost feel bad for him.
Posted 5/17/11
Read, if you please, Paradise Lost by John Milton.
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21 / F / England, UK
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Posted 5/17/11
i dunno... but a lifetime is a long time to make things right .
Posted 5/17/11
i would object agreements but in my case i do not believe in god
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19 / F / New York
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Posted 5/17/11

XBlackLilyX wrote:

Read, if you please, Paradise Lost by John Milton.


What topics does it cover?
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19 / F / New York
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Posted 5/17/11

princesstc wrote:

i dunno... but a lifetime is a long time to make things right .


haha true but in my way of thinking there really is no way you can make things "right", once you've committed the sin, you've done it. unless you were to get a time machine and go back and make it so you never did what you did o.O otherwise the person you hurt still bears the memory and maybe the grudge even if you apologize. but there is also something you could do to cleanse the soul..I know muslims can circle that big stone thing a couple of times to erase all of their sins, but still, a pretty harsh punishment if you're unwilling to do anything about it.
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