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Lucifer was framed
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Posted 5/17/11
... Damn, now I'm starting to really believe the cult theory to the bible.
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Posted 5/17/11

-yukin wrote:


10mejia wrote:


-yukin wrote:

It is kind of threatening..every time I see a Christian they're always talking about how all the nonbelievers will burn in Hell and if he wanted freedom of choice then there would be no punishment for not believing in him..


They might be Christian, but do they actually understand the teachings? If God was threatening us, why would there be followers? If Lucifer was the one trying to help us, why does he use such evil things to do so?


Again, the bible is really biased, and it is written to portray God as the good and Lucifer as the evil. Lucifer does evil things because he has had evil things done to himself and he's angry. He doesn't know how to control it.

God is a very convincing character but if you think about it he really sounds too good to be true, I think Lucifer is more human, just his emotions tend to get the best of him. I really almost feel bad for him.


I just went through this with my brother and I would LOVE to post it, but it's was alot of stuff..so i'll say what caught me the most.

1) Lucifer was God's Favorite angel, and he wanted more. He wanted to practically take his place, which i believe you mentioned. Also, the deadly sins only exist because Lucifer used temptation against Adam and Eve in the garden. If they were to never have bitten the apple, these emotions would never have existed...There is more but i can't really remember it much.
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Posted 5/17/11

msnocos wrote:

... Damn, now I'm starting to really believe the cult theory to the bible.


Lol sorry. Actually the answer to the question I posed is very unclear because the bible is a written work, so there can be a lot of different interpretations to it, since it's in writing. The topic is very debatable. I personally sympathize with Lucifer xD
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Posted 5/17/11
But Yukin is right in some way cuz sometimes you will have to be wrong in order to be right.
People will eventually encounter jealousy or watever but we learn from it..

Just saying my thoughts though ~

(One more thing about God having followers were that back in the Middle Ages, everybody was really
scared of religion. People were being forced to become a Christian or else you be sentenced to death.
Or do something with their land, im not sure. But it was very powerful back then so everyone converted.
Idk, it could be the reason why Christianity takes 1/3 of the population ) [Correct me if im wrong..]
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Posted 5/17/11
Unfortunately, you can't undo what you did. You can try to apologize but even if your apology isnt accepted you did the right thing by being sincere and being a generally good person can mean that you can kind of "redeem yourself". (sorry for the long sentence)
Posted 5/17/11

-yukin wrote:

I don't see the seven deadly sins as affecting others and never really thought about it like that (I don't try to hurt other people) so I can see what you're saying about God bringing justice being a good thing. But the justice is them burning in Hell for eternity, which is over the top. or is there some kind of lesser punishment?


I'm a Christian, I dont yell at athiest, telling them that they will go to hell.

I know that you've been studying the bible, but you've got quite a few misinterpretations, seems like you've taken the position as the devil lawyer

I'd like to tell you more,

I'll talk about hell first.

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

Hell is not a place of eternal suffering. Many chrsitians beleive it is, but they havn't looked clearly into this topic, you could blame the "hell-fire-preachers" of the old generations, there talk of hell led many to believe false views.

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalm 37:20.
"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed forever." Psalm 92:7.

This refers to the second death again, they will not be tortured forever, instead they will be destroyed. God would not allow eternal punishnment.
I could elaborate, but I think this clears up the fog quite well. Let me know if you have any questions.
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Posted 5/17/11


Did he? The story of Adam and Eve was explained to me in the frame of "it was all their fault", and that Lucifer had nothing to do with it. and if he did have something to do with it, maybe he just wanted there to be more humans so he could try and convince them to join his rebellion? I know Lucifer wanted to take God's place, and maybe he thought it would work since he was his favorite, but God didn't even let him try, because he felt threatened.
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Posted 5/17/11

PsyonicB wrote:


-yukin wrote:

I don't see the seven deadly sins as affecting others and never really thought about it like that (I don't try to hurt other people) so I can see what you're saying about God bringing justice being a good thing. But the justice is them burning in Hell for eternity, which is over the top. or is there some kind of lesser punishment?


I'm a Christian, I dont yell at athiest, telling them that they will go to hell.

I know that you've been studying the bible, but you've got quite a few misinterpretations, seems like you've taken the position as the devil lawyer

I'd like to tell you more,

I'll talk about hell first.

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

Hell is not a place of eternal suffering. Many chrsitians beleive it is, but they havn't looked clearly into this topic, you could blame the "hell-fire-preachers" of the old generations, there talk of hell led many to believe false views.

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalm 37:20.
"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed forever." Psalm 92:7.

This refers to the second death again, they will not be tortured forever, instead they will be destroyed. God would not allow eternal punishnment.
I could elaborate, but I think this clears up the fog quite well. Let me know if you have any questions.


Oh okay I think I got Hell and Tartarus (Greek mythology) mixed up, because many people have told me that they are equivalent. But what about Lucifer? Isn't he being eternally punished? He has been named the devil, and now people fear and hate him.
Posted 5/17/11

-yukin wrote:


princesstc wrote:

i dunno... but a lifetime is a long time to make things right .


haha true but in my way of thinking there really is no way you can make things "right", once you've committed the sin, you've done it. unless you were to get a time machine and go back and make it so you never did what you did o.O otherwise the person you hurt still bears the memory and maybe the grudge even if you apologize. but there is also something you could do to cleanse the soul..I know muslims can circle that big stone thing a couple of times to erase all of their sins, but still, a pretty harsh punishment if you're unwilling to do anything about it.


lol, you dont need a giagantic stone to be forgiven, Jesus Christ is the savior. Believe in him and you are forgiven. You're still guilty, but you're forgiven. People who hold grudges are at a loss, we must forgive others if we want to be forgiven.
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Posted 5/17/11

PsyonicB wrote:


-yukin wrote:


princesstc wrote:

i dunno... but a lifetime is a long time to make things right .


haha true but in my way of thinking there really is no way you can make things "right", once you've committed the sin, you've done it. unless you were to get a time machine and go back and make it so you never did what you did o.O otherwise the person you hurt still bears the memory and maybe the grudge even if you apologize. but there is also something you could do to cleanse the soul..I know muslims can circle that big stone thing a couple of times to erase all of their sins, but still, a pretty harsh punishment if you're unwilling to do anything about it.


lol, you dont need a giagantic stone to be forgiven, Jesus Christ is the savior. Believe in him and you are forgiven. You're still guilty, but you're forgiven. People who hold grudges are at a loss, we must forgive others if we want to be forgiven.


Haha just making a comparison. But it seriously sounds too good to be true, and from what I've learned from my 13 years of living when it sounds too good to be true it usually is. overall this whole thing is really confusing I wish they could have written another bible in favor of Lucifer or just an unbiased one.
Posted 5/17/11 , edited 5/17/11

-yukin wrote:


Haha just making a comparison. But it seriously sounds too good to be true, and from what I've learned from my 13 years of living when it sounds too good to be true it usually is. overall this whole thing is really confusing I wish they could have written another bible in favor of Lucifer or just an unbiased one.


You should deffo get your hands on the Lucifer comics, you can probably get the small graphic novels somewhere ^_^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_%28DC_Comics%29

He does infact create a planet in one of them, he does allow them [an adam and eve equivalent] to do whatever they want and submit to their emotions. It didn't go as quiet as planned, it is a very good piece of writing.
Posted 5/17/11


Oh okay I think I got Hell and Tartarus (Greek mythology) mixed up, because many people have told me that they are equivalent. But what about Lucifer? Isn't he being eternally punished? He has been named the devil, and now people fear and hate him.


Oh, that one's easy.

He's not being eternally punished either.
Here's a verse you may not have read
Revelation 20:10
It's kinda sad that people mistranslate the original latin version, it's not a contradiction, its merely a misinterpretation from people, and I think it's those hell fired up preachers fault.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. There's where christians made a mistake
eis tous aeonas ton aionon, this translates to: until the ages of ages
what this verse really says is:
"And the devil who deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and false prophet were. And shall be tormented day and night until the age of ages."
This indicates that he will be put to death, and he will no longer exist.
This also indicates a new mysterious age.
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Posted 5/17/11

-yukin wrote:


PsyonicB wrote:


-yukin wrote:


princesstc wrote:

i dunno... but a lifetime is a long time to make things right .


haha true but in my way of thinking there really is no way you can make things "right", once you've committed the sin, you've done it. unless you were to get a time machine and go back and make it so you never did what you did o.O otherwise the person you hurt still bears the memory and maybe the grudge even if you apologize. but there is also something you could do to cleanse the soul..I know muslims can circle that big stone thing a couple of times to erase all of their sins, but still, a pretty harsh punishment if you're unwilling to do anything about it.


lol, you dont need a giagantic stone to be forgiven, Jesus Christ is the savior. Believe in him and you are forgiven. You're still guilty, but you're forgiven. People who hold grudges are at a loss, we must forgive others if we want to be forgiven.


Haha just making a comparison. But it seriously sounds too good to be true, and from what I've learned from my 13 years of living when it sounds too good to be true it usually is. overall this whole thing is really confusing I wish they could have written another bible in favor of Lucifer or just an unbiased one.


Here's the thing tho, to get true believers in a faith, there has to be a reward and a punishment. In Christianity, it's heaven and hell, respectively. If the bible is written in a way without these two factors, would it really be one of the largest faith on earth? All the people who starts a faith starts on a basis of human desire, in this case immortality. Heaven is an area of immortality basically, where everyone live with god forever and ever. Hell is the true death. Fear that drives believers in this case is death, and the reward for being a believer immortality. Besides, when I read the bible (Genesis and Luke) for school, I saw a huge difference in the way God and Jesus saw material goods. Btw, I'm a non-believer so don't really know much in detail, tho.
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Posted 5/17/11

Han_Solo wrote:


-yukin wrote:


Haha just making a comparison. But it seriously sounds too good to be true, and from what I've learned from my 13 years of living when it sounds too good to be true it usually is. overall this whole thing is really confusing I wish they could have written another bible in favor of Lucifer or just an unbiased one.


You should deffo get your hands on the Lucifer comics, you can probably get the small graphic novels somewhere ^_^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer_%28DC_Comics%29

He does infact create a planet in one of them, he does allow them [an adam and eve equivalent] to do whatever they want and submit to their emotions. It didn't go as quiet as planned, it is a very good piece of writing.


xD oh dear I must find this, along with a copy of paradise lost..thanks for sharing!
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Posted 5/17/11


yeah, in my bible it says forever and ever. fail translation. or maybe a misinterpretation, because I know that translators don't just translate words, they translate meaning, so again the question of writing having two different meanings, and it's unclear which is the real one. It really could be either. ages of ages could mean an indefinite amount of time, meaning forever, or maybe some people will see it as what you do, until the beginning of a new age.

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