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Lucifer was framed
Posted 5/17/11
eis tous aeonas ton aionon
that has one meaning
until the age of ages...
and I forgot to ask.
Why take the devil's defence?
Posted 5/17/11 , edited 5/17/11
Who the fuck said that the Bible is a novel with a protagonist and an antagonist? It's a religious doctrine.

If anything, God and Satan are just antagonists towards each other, and both are gods, since they are worshiped.

In accordance with what was said in The Holy Bible, God is omnipotent, and Satan is merely an angel. Satan also had Lucifer by his side. BTW the name Lucifer was taken from a Roman god, and the Roman gods were derived from Greek gods.

Lucifer wasn't framed, though his name has been synonymous with Satan's. Some believe that Satan and Lucifer combined, but really, they just joined forces to defy their divine master and take control for themselves. They ultimately lost to the forces of Heaven, and were banished to Hell where they could rule. However, it's not to say that they aren't there chiefly to punished unrepentant sinners. Satan was given the task of overseeing Hell rather than ruling it, yet the ugliness of dealing out torment to those who violated God's laws is enough to make one bitter. All Hell is supposed to be is a lake of fire or some realm of complete darkness. Some say it can kill you just by looking at it. Whatever Hell might be, there's pain to be sure telling from the descriptions.

In the end, The Holy Bible is an interesting story, but one that is getting unbearable old and irritating to hear about.
Posted 5/17/11 , edited 5/17/11

-yukin wrote:


XBlackLilyX wrote:

Read, if you please, Paradise Lost by John Milton.


What topics does it cover?


John Milton was an English poet, and a very good one.

Paradise Lost is an epic poem having to do with the Christian story of the fall of man. In there, Satan is portrayed as an anti-hero. During the Renaissance, questioning of the Church's power was common, and Paradise Lost did so in an elegant manner.
Posted 5/17/11
Lucifer, the protagonist? Sure. If the bible was about individuality and personal freedoms as well as knowledge. But it isn't, and it will never be about freedom.

Nice OP post, -Yukin. Though I doubt the religious would ever actually admit to this.


Oh, and I love the way you ended it with "God was an egotistical sadist". That was just <3
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Posted 5/17/11

PsyonicB wrote:

eis tous aeonas ton aionon
that has one meaning
until the age of ages...
and I forgot to ask.
Why take the devil's defence?


Why take the devil's defense? It's simple, really. I'm a teenager, and as most of you know, that is the age when rebellion starts. So I am very susceptible to new ideas because I'm open minded, and if there is sufficient evidence to back it up, sure I'll believe and support it.

I'm trying to bring light to Lucifer's name.

The thing that baffles me the most is why Lucifer was even thrown into Hell. I understand that he wanted to start a democracy and eventually take God's place, but Lucifer was God's favorite angel. And Lucifer is God's son, (well everyone is God's son/daughter) so isn't it only natural for him to want to rise above his father? And he was his favorite angel, so it doesn't make sense that he would throw him into the fiery pits. Doesn't he have compassion? I would surely not want to throw my child into an oven simply because he wants to take over my position. And say God didn't do anything, and let Lucifer continue his campaign. And say Lucifer failed. Then nothing would have been lost, only Lucifer's pride, which would be a good thing, because that was his main sin. The only reason I see for God throwing Lucifer out is that he felt threatened by him. I also don't understand why God possesses so many artificial qualities, like his scaled up sense of "justice" (not playing favorites with Lucifer and sending him to hell), and his ability to reign as 'king' without letting the power to go to his head. Don't humans want the person they call their savior to be human, to further increase their hopes to become at least a tiny bit like them? Another thing is concerning the seven deadly sins. God tells us not to commit those, because in turn we may hurt other people. Here I'll refer to the words of Alfred Lord Tennyson.

"'Tis better to have loved and lost,
Than never to have loved at all."

In that manner, it would be better to commit those sins and know why they are so bad and the damage they can inflict on others so that you can reflect on your experiences and prior knowledge instead of just having someone tell you "don't do that, it's bad" because you don't really learn anything.
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Posted 5/17/11

Sonovabitch wrote:

Who the fuck said that the Bible is a novel with a protagonist and an antagonist? It's a religious doctrine.

If anything, God and Satan are just antagonists towards each other, and both are gods, since they are worshiped.

In accordance with what was said in The Holy Bible, God is omnipotent, and Satan is merely an angel. Satan also had Lucifer by his side. BTW the name Lucifer was taken from a Roman god, and the Roman gods were derived from Greek gods.

Lucifer wasn't framed, though his name has been synonymous with Satan's. Some believe that Satan and Lucifer combined, but really, they just joined forces to defy their divine master and take control for themselves. They ultimately lost to the forces of Heaven, and were banished to Hell where they could rule. However, it's not to say that they aren't there chiefly to punished unrepentant sinners. Satan was given the task of overseeing Hell rather than ruling it, yet the ugliness of dealing out torment to those who violated God's laws is enough to make one bitter. All Hell is supposed to be is a lake of fire or some realm of complete darkness. Some say it can kill you just by looking at it. Whatever Hell might be, there's pain to be sure telling from the descriptions.

In the end, The Holy Bible is an interesting story, but one that is getting unbearable old and irritating to hear about.


I regard the Bible as a book, in which usually contain protagonists and antagonists, which just so happens to correspond with religious beliefs. other people regard the Bible as a way of life, and that is alright with me. The popular belief is the one that the majority of society follows, and that belief is that Lucifer is synonymous with Satan and the Devil. All three names have the same bad connotations attached to them. I happen to use the name Lucifer to refer to him because I just like it that way, rather than calling him "Satan" or the "Devil". I think Lucifer was just an unfortunate guy.

I think the Bible would be better with Lucifer committing a more serious crime, like trying to kill God in order to overthrow him (though I don't know how that would work since he is immortal)
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Posted 5/17/11

Lauriet wrote:

Lucifer, the protagonist? Sure. If the bible was about individuality and personal freedoms as well as knowledge. But it isn't, and it will never be about freedom.

Nice OP post, -Yukin. Though I doubt the religious would ever actually admit to this.


Oh, and I love the way you ended it with "God was an egotistical sadist". That was just <3


Thank you very much, kind sir. I wish the Bible was about individuality and personal freedoms. After all, God violated the most basic of Lucifer's civil rights, which we humans worked so hard to gain. [our own civil rights]
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Posted 5/17/11
OP's post is very interesting.

However, we don't know how God wanted the world. A democracy is not necessarily a good thing. The seven deadly sins are not real sins but rather seven things that can lead to sins. The freedom of choice is to be able to choose which path to take: either God's or the other way; it is not the right to do whatever we want.
Posted 5/17/11 , edited 5/17/11
BTW. Satan and Lucifer are not the same entity. They are quite different personalities, I leave it to you to do your own research....

find out for yourself who rules Hades...

Posted 5/17/11

-yukin wrote:


Sonovabitch wrote:

Who the fuck said that the Bible is a novel with a protagonist and an antagonist? It's a religious doctrine.

If anything, God and Satan are just antagonists towards each other, and both are gods, since they are worshiped.

In accordance with what was said in The Holy Bible, God is omnipotent, and Satan is merely an angel. Satan also had Lucifer by his side. BTW the name Lucifer was taken from a Roman god, and the Roman gods were derived from Greek gods.

Lucifer wasn't framed, though his name has been synonymous with Satan's. Some believe that Satan and Lucifer combined, but really, they just joined forces to defy their divine master and take control for themselves. They ultimately lost to the forces of Heaven, and were banished to Hell where they could rule. However, it's not to say that they aren't there chiefly to punished unrepentant sinners. Satan was given the task of overseeing Hell rather than ruling it, yet the ugliness of dealing out torment to those who violated God's laws is enough to make one bitter. All Hell is supposed to be is a lake of fire or some realm of complete darkness. Some say it can kill you just by looking at it. Whatever Hell might be, there's pain to be sure telling from the descriptions.

In the end, The Holy Bible is an interesting story, but one that is getting unbearable old and irritating to hear about.


I regard the Bible as a book, in which usually contain protagonists and antagonists, which just so happens to correspond with religious beliefs. other people regard the Bible as a way of life, and that is alright with me. The popular belief is the one that the majority of society follows, and that belief is that Lucifer is synonymous with Satan and the Devil. All three names have the same bad connotations attached to them. I happen to use the name Lucifer to refer to him because I just like it that way, rather than calling him "Satan" or the "Devil". I think Lucifer was just an unfortunate guy.

I think the Bible would be better with Lucifer committing a more serious crime, like trying to kill God in order to overthrow him (though I don't know how that would work since he is immortal)


A book, yes. A novel, not quite. It doesn't flow like a novel, and technically, as I said, it is classified as religious doctrine whether or not it has the characteristics of a conventional story. The Bible is more like a long list of non-logical axioms constructing a story. Pretty words taken for truths when they really aren't truths become less true for being taken true because they are so "pretty".

And this battle between good end evil we hear about is eternal. God and Satan are both immortal. In fact, according to the Bible, all souls are immortal, and death really only occurs to flesh.
Posted 5/17/11 , edited 5/17/11

XBlackLilyX wrote:

BTW. Satan and Lucifer are not the same entity. They are quite different personalities, I leave it to you to do your own research....

find out for yourself who rules Hades...



Hades rules Hades. That is Greek mythology, not Judeo-Christian myth BTW.
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Posted 5/17/11

-yukin wrote:

I have been studying the Bible for the past few days and I noticed something.

The real protagonist of the story is Lucifer (satan), and the antagonist is God.

When God created his creatures, he gave them the freedom of choice, because he didn't want them to be like robots. But Lucifer was tossed into Hell because he fought for a democracy in Heaven. He was punished for doing what he thought was right. This is clearly a violation to God's freedom of choice that he wanted all creatures to have. If it really was a free choice, there wouldn't have been a punishment. A modern day comparison of this would be a father asking his son if he loved him, and if the son said no the father would throw his son into an oven and cook him. Clearly this is wrong.

Lucifer (in the Bible) is the protagonist because he was standing up for what he thought was right, exercising his freedoms, trying to make the ignorant realize that the seven deadly sins (lust, wrath, greed, sloth, pride, envy, and gluttony) are all normal emotions that all humans are bound to feel in some point of their life. So if we follow according to those rules, we all have committed sins which means we're all going to Hell.

God (in the Bible) is the antagonist because he doesn't want to lose his followers. He continues to be hypocritical, brainwashing everyone to believe and love him, threatening them with being sent to Hell if they don't. He's also restricting humans to live as they wish, making them bottle up their emotions within themselves (which isn't very healthy). In the end, he was just an egotistical sadist.

opinions on this? agree/disagree and why?

an apology in advance if I offend any religious people, that was not my intention at all.


Now i agree that Lu may have had a point. And it was kinda dickish of Jehova for damning him and his supporters.
But i have another theory.
What if he considered Lu's opinions? And by damning him brought balance to the world.
I mean,there can't be good without evil. So he made a deal with him.
By giving him his own realm,he could watch over those mortal sins and Jehova the good deeds.
Sharing the work load and all that. And at the same time,bringing out balance to the world.


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Posted 5/17/11
Simple answer, God created Angels to serve him. That is their sole purpose, unlike mankind. God was king, Lucifer was a knight. The knight tried to over come the king in a coup d'état. So to the dungeon he goes. Is it really that complicated? lol
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Posted 5/17/11

Sonovabitch wrote:


-yukin wrote:


Sonovabitch wrote:

Who the fuck said that the Bible is a novel with a protagonist and an antagonist? It's a religious doctrine.

If anything, God and Satan are just antagonists towards each other, and both are gods, since they are worshiped.

In accordance with what was said in The Holy Bible, God is omnipotent, and Satan is merely an angel. Satan also had Lucifer by his side. BTW the name Lucifer was taken from a Roman god, and the Roman gods were derived from Greek gods.

Lucifer wasn't framed, though his name has been synonymous with Satan's. Some believe that Satan and Lucifer combined, but really, they just joined forces to defy their divine master and take control for themselves. They ultimately lost to the forces of Heaven, and were banished to Hell where they could rule. However, it's not to say that they aren't there chiefly to punished unrepentant sinners. Satan was given the task of overseeing Hell rather than ruling it, yet the ugliness of dealing out torment to those who violated God's laws is enough to make one bitter. All Hell is supposed to be is a lake of fire or some realm of complete darkness. Some say it can kill you just by looking at it. Whatever Hell might be, there's pain to be sure telling from the descriptions.

In the end, The Holy Bible is an interesting story, but one that is getting unbearable old and irritating to hear about.


I regard the Bible as a book, in which usually contain protagonists and antagonists, which just so happens to correspond with religious beliefs. other people regard the Bible as a way of life, and that is alright with me. The popular belief is the one that the majority of society follows, and that belief is that Lucifer is synonymous with Satan and the Devil. All three names have the same bad connotations attached to them. I happen to use the name Lucifer to refer to him because I just like it that way, rather than calling him "Satan" or the "Devil". I think Lucifer was just an unfortunate guy.

I think the Bible would be better with Lucifer committing a more serious crime, like trying to kill God in order to overthrow him (though I don't know how that would work since he is immortal)


A book, yes. A novel, not quite. It doesn't flow like a novel, and technically, as I said, it is classified as religious doctrine whether or not it has the characteristics of a conventional story. The Bible is more like a long list of non-logical axioms constructing a story. Pretty words taken for truths when they really aren't truths become less true for being taken true because they are so "pretty".

And this battle between good end evil we hear about is eternal. God and Satan are both immortal. In fact, according to the Bible, all souls are immortal, and death really only occurs to flesh.


So that contradicts whoever said god doesn't punish people eternally, because he has punished Lucifer for forever, and he is immortal, so it is impossible for him to die.
Posted 5/17/11
What the 'hell' do I care..my bloodline runs more to dancing around a 'bonefire'...aka bonfire..

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