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The Last Gentlemen
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30 / Ronald McDonald's...
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Posted 6/7/07
Okay, the last 3-4 times I went out I didn't ( get to ) spend a penny, because each time I was in some male company who insisted on paying. Of course I don't really mind, as much as I don't mind someone holding the door open for me, but we discussed this lately, as a friend of mine started taking multiple girls out.

He isn't very experienced in dating, so we all adviced him. After telling him where to take her out to and where not, it turned out most of us suggested he should pay the bill, but some said something along the lines of "This is the 21st century, let her pay her bill, you pay yours. She won't expect you to pay anyway."

I'm not too sure about that. Though most women wouldn't really rely on someone else paying, I know they actually expect it. I even heard of cases, in which the girl didn't even bother to bring money. Emancipation is one thing, but on the first date, most people agree that the guy should pay.

What do you guys think? Not just about paying, I'm talking about the whole catalogue of gentlemen etiquette. Like being protective, seeing you home, holding the doors open, opening beer bottles for you, letting you choose the movie etc., etc.

I don't think it's a big issue, but some feminists are condemning it, like females didn't succeed in emancipation as long as everyone's expecting men to be gentlemen. Oh and is it annoying to men to always have to meet those expectations?
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Posted 6/7/07
whoever asks the other person out should pay on the first date IMO
whoever takes the initiative first to request another persons time to engage in romantic activities, then they should pay, guy or girl
however as time goes on in the relationship, paying should be equal terms


ahojcookie wrote:

I'm not too sure about that. Though most women wouldn't really rely on someone else paying, I know they actually expect it. I even heard of cases, in which the girl didn't even bother to bring money. Emancipation is one thing, but on the first date, most people agree that the guy should pay.


equality works both ways, if she asks him out, she should expect to pay, if he asks her then he should pay. But no one should expect anything.

The only reason people expect guys should pay is because guys are supposed to chase women according to societal norms, but as things progress and society changes, women will have to chase the men that they like. Only then will outmoded notions such as the man always footing the bill will fade away.

Posted 6/7/07
i hate feminists who preach female superiority, that men are shit etc...but saying a guy shouldnt take care of a girl HE offered to take out is really rediculous. if the guy asks, he should pay and even if he doesnt ask her but she does, he should pay because its common courtesy and feminists are hellbent on tearing it down because the think that men are putting women down by helping out.GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS FEMINISTS THAT WE MEN ARENT ALL OUT TO GET YOU AND LOWER YOU!!!
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51 / M / Torphichen Scotland
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Posted 6/7/07
I would expect to pay the bill and would normally just give my card to the waiter as soon as the bill arrived.

If she then offered to go halves, I would politely decline first time. If she offered a second time, I wouldn't patronise her by refusing.

I would never let her choose the movie though.
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23 / M / Cali
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Posted 6/7/07
well i think if he really loves her he should be nice and etiquette to that girl but dnt judge me im only a kid wit my own ideas
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30 / Ronald McDonald's...
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Posted 6/7/07

skygod333 wrote:

i hate feminists who preach female superiority, that men are shit etc...but saying a guy shouldnt take care of a girl HE offered to take out is really rediculous. if the guy asks, he should pay and even if he doesnt ask her but she does, he should pay because its common courtesy and feminists are hellbent on tearing it down because the think that men are putting women down by helping out.GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS FEMINISTS THAT WE MEN ARENT ALL OUT TO GET YOU AND LOWER YOU!!!


Yeah, feminists often contradict themselves
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34 / M / 中国
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Posted 6/7/07
Well, despite my late night drunken rantings on here, I do consider myself a gentleman (I've gone as far as to read several books on etiquette regarding the matter). Actually, I'd say I'm pretty much an asshole online and a gentleman offline. We need somewhere to vent.

Personally, I believe one should only behave as a gentleman when dealing with a lady. Not all women carry themselves in such a manner, nor is it necessary for them to anymore. My behavior will change based on the quality of my company. For example, if I'm around a woman who carries herself as a lady, then I will behave in the appropriate complimenting manner.. If the woman doesn't carry herself in such a manner (i.e. redneck girls or teen ditzes - which sadly doesn't even require being a teen anymore), then I won't expend the effort - it just makes them uneasy and me feel awkward.

Typically, if I'm on a date I'll insist on paying. After we've gone out for a little while, then we may start splitting bills and that sort of thing, but I still prefer to pay. I think most men view it as a sign of weakness to let a girl pay for anything as though they themselves are somehow incapable of it. I usually get away with saying "I'll take care of the bill, you can handle the tip" if a fuss is made over the matter.

Is it stressful being expected to behave in such a manner? Not at all since no one really expects it anymore. If anything I get strange looks or laughs when I go out of my to be polite or courteous - let alone chivalrous. I've actually had people ask me if I'm mormon or religous - which couldn't be further from the truth.

I think much of the women's rights movement can be summed up with "I want to have my cake and eat it too." Many women still want to be treated like ladies, but without the burden of actually having to behave as ladies. While the rights women have gained are certainly due to them, I think what we've lost are our social expectations of them. But much the same can be said of men as well over the last 100 years or so.

I suppose a larger part of the question is should we still feel the need of carrying these social burdens around anymore, or are they just antiques in need of being done away with? Personally, I think the world is unpleasant enough as it is without us making the situation worse. Even the simplest of courtesies can go a long way in making life a little bit more hospitable.
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31 / M / Washington
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Posted 6/7/07
people are stupid...men are supposed to provide for women..women are supposed to cater to men... its what were ggoood at... some of us can cook...but not alot of us...
its not an insult and women can do other things too... but really... your first priority is to care for men whether its your brothers and father... or your mate and kids... thats life! just as men are suposed to provide for parents and siblings or for thier mate and kids... stupid feminists that came out in the hippie era are hippies and messed up too... it happens... i dont mind all the feminists from the 20s an 30s... good people alota the time...or even Rosie the riviter... i just frown on the crazed "modernists" not just feminists.. but also the extreme gays... :P

as for me? im cheap an jobless it would be selfish for me to go on a date or buy gifts as im required to do... caus then i would skimp on my other duties utnil i can get a good job.. if i did go on a date....the woman would have to buy...caus im short on cash til i get a good job... i dont my aunt or mom paying for tehings by the way....caus thats thier duty...atleast it was a few years ago... now i dont know....
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34 / M / 中国
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Posted 6/7/07

AleksisMichael wrote:

people are stupid...men are supposed to provide for women..women are supposed to cater to men... its what were ggoood at... some of us can cook...but not alot of us...
its not an insult and women can do other things too... but really... your first priority is to care for men whether its your brothers and father... or your mate and kids... thats life! just as men are suposed to provide for parents and siblings or for thier mate and kids... stupid feminists that came out in the hippie era are hippies and messed up too... it happens... i dont mind all the feminists from the 20s an 30s... good people alota the time...or even Rosie the riviter... i just frown on the crazed "modernists" not just feminists.. but also the extreme gays... :P

as for me? im cheap an jobless it would be selfish for me to go on a date or buy gifts as im required to do... caus then i would skimp on my other duties utnil i can get a good job.. if i did go on a date....the woman would have to buy...caus im short on cash til i get a good job... i dont my aunt or mom paying for tehings by the way....caus thats thier duty...atleast it was a few years ago... now i dont know....


Yeah I'll agree that 20's women's lib was much better then the 60's version. What I wouldn't give to have met Edna St. Vincent Millay back in the roaring twenties....

I think it is natural for men to be the provider/protector and women the nurturer/caretaker - and I think most people are happy fulfilling those roles - but I don't think anyone should be forced into them.
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20 / M / Boston
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Posted 6/7/07
If I ask anyone out guy or girl I always offer to pay. The same goes with business clients, if I ask them out to dinner to discuss a deal I offer to pay. It was mentioned before that if they offer to pay their share the first time I will politely decline if they offer a second time I accept. When being asked out in any scenario I always offer to pay.

I suppose I'm old fashioned when it comes to such things. I always walk girls home, hold doors, pull out chairs, help them with their coat, and the like. I haven't had any complaints from anyone so far.
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Posted 6/7/07
Lol... Business clients are a different matter.
you should'nt pay the bill on your 1st date. the term: gold digger mean anything? alot of girls are like this. and those who expect you to pay well.. lets just say don't bother meeting them again.

women now go on about sexism and crap but are unwilling to pay a bill together. now thats a laugh
Posted 6/7/07
It's proper ettiquette for whoever requested the date to offer to pay for the bill.

However, as a women, I can honestly say I dislike women who let men pay for the bill. I think it's completely ridiculous to expect the guy to always pay for everything. They're not your fucking daddy.

That said,I also dislike men who don't offer to pay as it is a sign that they are cheap bastards. Who wants to date a cheap bastard?

Oh the contradictions!

Also, if the girl has decided she is not going to see the guy ever again then she should definitely split the bill.
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30 / Ronald McDonald's...
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Posted 6/7/07

xidiya wrote:

It's proper ettiquette for whoever requested the date to offer to pay for the bill.

However, as a women, I can honestly say I dislike women who let men pay for the bill. I think it's completely ridiculous to expect the guy to always pay for everything. They're not your fucking daddy.

That said,I also dislike men who don't offer to pay as it is a sign that they are cheap bastards. Who wants to date a cheap bastard?

Oh the contradictions!

Also, if the girl has decided she is not going to see the guy ever again then she should definitely split the bill.


I agree, I also think there are a lot of contradictions. But then again, if the guy insists on paying and the girl lets him, is that really a guaranty for keeping on dating him?
Posted 6/7/07
I don't really get what your asking as I don't think a girl should let a guy pay unless she plans on seeing him again and paying for the next date.

That aside, I don't think a date gaurantees anything. It's just a date. Hell, even marriage is no gaurantee these days.

I think people who equate 'love' (as we're clearly talking about romantic dates here) w/ any sort of sense of security are badly mistaken and not thinking clearly.
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30 / Ronald McDonald's...
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Posted 6/7/07
^No, actually we're not talking about romantic dates only here. Just gentlemen etiquette in general. Sorry, if I confused you though, I meant do guys really expect a girl will keep on dating them only, because she accepted that he pays the bill?
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