Created by huckdiane
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Would romance in Gintama really spoil the show?
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Posted 5/20/11
Personally I think all the usual parodies and jokes are running a bit dry, and a change in characters interaction couldn't do any damage, actually quite the opposite. I'm not saying it has to turn into a soujo show, or that everyone must get a steady girlfriend, getting married and stuff like that. I'm not even asking for canon couples (even if I have my favourite ships and would love to see them end up together) as there are so many possibilities. And although is very unlikely to happen, I still think it would be very refreshing and quite unexpected.
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Posted 5/20/11
Well, yeah, but it wouldn't be gintama anymore if love/relationships suddenly get taken serious. The most you gonna get is the upcomming harem arc in the anime, and who knows, maybe sorachi will turn into Masakazu Katsura and start writing Boy's Love manga in the spirit of I''s and Video Girl Ai.
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Posted 5/21/11
Don't get the question wrong: it's not about taking love realtionships seriously, but using that kind of storyline to move things a bit further from the humour we're used to, making the plot even funnier in the process. If done properly it could actually work. Maybe Sorachi should get some inspiration from his girlfriend, well if he has one
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Posted 5/21/11 , edited 5/21/11
Well, he does tackle the issue here and there. The recent "Lova Zula" arc in the manga (around 348 to 350 i believe) is about virtual girlfriends, so he's kinda half-way there?

But when mayor characters suddenly get steady relationships it would kinda destroy the hole sazae-format of the show, just my personal opinion. It could work, but the current format also works perfectly fine, the manga and the anime are high in popularity and at the moment sorachi doesn't need to ship characters to hook readers attention.

edit: come to think of it, if a steady relationship would be introduced, there are two ways of doing it :
1) pair up existing characters
for example : Okita and Kagura. I guess from a fangirl perspective it would make total sense that those two get together, but not everybody is wired like that. They're rarely in the same shot or even talk to another. So a large group of the established fandom could get alienated with this sudden change.
2) create a new characters to be paired up with
This option is always doomed to fail, imo. I've never seen it done well, the characters always fall flat and don't have any personality other than "I'm X boy/girlfriend". It's a shortcut solution for many authors, when they feel the need to spice up their work, but don't want to use the first option for whatever reason. Sometimes the characters also dissapear suddenly never to be heard of again. From ranma 1/2 i remember that ryuga had this thing going with that girl that loves pigs. I think they got 3-4 chapters, after that she vanished.

I might be totally wrong of corse, and sorachi suprises me with pulling something like that and actually succed. who knows.
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Posted 5/21/11
Every anime/manga with more than 2 characters gets different shippers. Happens every time. Even in Gintama, although there's not romance OFFICIALLY, there have been a few hints of many characters liking another character, so there are GinTsu, OkiKagu, GinTae, KyuuTae, HijiMitsu and many more pairs supporters. So if romance isn't gonna be developed just not to disappoint certain groups of shippers, that would be really disappointing itself.

And your second option kinda happened already with Ikumatsu. I mean, do we ever see her except from when she's with Katsura? Nope. But that couple has many fans nonetheless, so as you can see it works.

As for OkiKagu they have SO MANY supporters that I highly doubt anyone would be even just surprised if that ship really happened, as long as their personalities won't change too much.
With Gin it would be a little bit more complicated though.
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Posted 5/21/11
*sigh* i really shouldn't get into discussions about ships, should i?

I didn't mean that romance doesn't get developed so a group of shippers gets dissapointed who supports another pairing. I meant that the general fan might get alienated with sudden changes of character. I doubt that sorachi cares about ships, he doesn't seem the type. He even mocks the fujoshi crowd with the fake!yaoi cover.

I forgot about Ikumatsu, but again : are they actually a couple? I didn't see it, even if hundreds of fangirls are 100% about it that they hump each other like bunnies, there's no real evidence for it.

I stand by my opinion, gintama is not a rom-com. But who really gives a crap if two fictional characters are together ?(dangerous ground here, chance of getting flamed to death : 99%)
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Posted 5/22/11 , edited 5/22/11
Don't worry I'm not the type who flames to death people with different opinions from mine, although I can't speak for others...
I don't think Gintama should turn into a rom-com or that we need to see explicit "action" within the couples or even less that the characters should change their personality.
After all if that kind of storyline doesn't work it could always get dropped.
By the way I didn't read the harem chapters, I'll watch them in the anime. But by the very nature of being an ARC the topic will end there. Kinda like "what happens in the harem arc stays in the harem arc"
Besides I don't really like harems...
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Posted 5/23/11 , edited 5/23/11

InsaneWithAnInvertedi wrote:

*sigh* i really shouldn't get into discussions about ships, should i?

I didn't mean that romance doesn't get developed so a group of shippers gets dissapointed who supports another pairing. I meant that the general fan might get alienated with sudden changes of character. I doubt that sorachi cares about ships, he doesn't seem the type. He even mocks the fujoshi crowd with the fake!yaoi cover.

I forgot about Ikumatsu, but again : are they actually a couple? I didn't see it, even if hundreds of fangirls are 100% about it that they hump each other like bunnies, there's no real evidence for it.

I stand by my opinion, gintama is not a rom-com. But who really gives a crap if two fictional characters are together ?(dangerous ground here, chance of getting flamed to death : 99%)


Agreed 100%.

I feel that by adding more romance or a more concrete hint of romance between any two characters in Gintama, it would restrict the kind of relationship and interaction that could occur between two characters. I like how most relationships in Gintama are undefined (and it's better that way because the interactions/situations between certain characters become more unpredictable and enjoyable). I wouldn't mind crack shipping within the story, like with Otae spontaneously sprouting Hijikata's child because it's all just for laughs, but if it was serious...Well, it's just not the same. Like Insane said, it would be unappealing for a certain fanbase who do NOT ship the pairings. For instance, whilst I like Tsukuyo and how she has a crush on Gin-san, despite its popularity, I dislike GinTsukki because it limits how Gin-san can and think about other characters (and Gin-san wouldn't be the Gin-san we know if he did get paired up at this stage, unless Sorachi could pull it off well). The Gin-Tsukki interaction is funny enough as it is, there is no need to add romance just because there is a large population who like the two together.

Anyway, my point is that Gintama is manga which has appeal for its situation-based comedy, not relationships/romance. It is funny because you see characters getting into ridiculous situations which makes them interact with other characters in amusing ways. Of course that's just generalising, but actual canon romance between regular (note I say regular - occasional is fine, such as HijiMitsu and KatsuIku because it's not frequent) characters will detract from the overall light-heartedness of the manga. That's just how I see it.

Btw Insane, the reason why many consider Ikumatsu x Katsura to be canon is because of history - the real Katsura married a woman called Ikumatsu. That said, I didn't see the chemistry either, until people were all, "katsura Ikumatsu lalalala".

*shrugs*
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Posted 5/23/11
Also, from my understanding, shippers like to form their own little theories why 2 characters should be together and so on, wouldn't an actual couple take the fun out of it? It would be like if Love Hina started out with Keitaro being in a relationship with naru (well, it was obvious, but the rest of the cast (even the loli) seemed to have a crush on him/had a fair chance).

I'm all for crack pairing, sorachi should consider SadaharuXElizabeth. Homosexual interspecies bestiality anyone?

Also, thx for the info, never read up on Katsura Kogoro that much. Are we going to duke it out with info about ancient japanese history, first okita now katsura...
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Posted 5/23/11 , edited 5/23/11
That why I said that pairing up Gintoki with someone it's a lot more difficult than the other characters. If it happens it should be a female character created exactly for that purpose, and that's why so many people ship GinTsu (ME INCLUDED!!!) because when she appeared the first time she was really like a girl version of Gin, and while it became evident that she's got a crush on him, he also seemed quite attracted to her as well, and his interaction with Tsukuyo was somehow different from all the other girls. That's also what got people's attention and curiosity, even those who usually don't ship much. But on this new season she seems to have become just another regular part of the female cast who takes part of the gags like Otae, Sachan and Kyuubei. I wonder if she'll ever have a serious arc again.

But speaking of the new season and character changes, as anyone noticed Kagura's behaviour is a bit different. She's still very childish, but also girlyer than ever before. It's just a bunch of episodes so maybe is a bit early to judge, but she seems much closer to the girls now, and hugs them a lot for little or no reason, even Sachan who she usually doesn't like very much. She also has female friend of her age (second part of episode 205) while before she just used to play with Yocchan and other boys, and was happy to do "girly stuff" during Valentines.
Wouldn't it be cute if she would start to look at Okita differently (I know, here we go again!). No even need to end up together, but the usual tension between them could be of a different nature...

And anyway, why use such a good looking character design and put so many hot guys and pretty girls if Sorachi didn't want romance in the story or viewers/readers asking for it? Too late now to complain about people shipping couples. He should have gone with the Sazae-san style all the way then, not just as story format goes.
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Posted 5/23/11
yeah, i noticed kagura's behaviour, but it's all going very slowly and gradually. Chapter 351 opens with kagura and her female friends discussing a TV drama with the usual "that guy is so hot" chatter you would expect, maybe sorachi shed his gorilla skin and actually met a girl? Or the nice people of shusheia forced a woman to date him :D?


To your last question : ...what? There are tons of brilliantly drawn manga and comics with "hot guys" and "pretty girls" that don't feel the need to ship everything together. Bleach's characters design are gorgegous but tite explicitly stated that he won't ship the characters officially. Oda doesn't do romance in One piece, although you could argue about character designs there. I don't think sorachi ever complained about shippers, but since when do autors listen to them anyway? Ranma 1/2 would be over in like 2 volumes if takahashi listened to the fans screams about RanmaXakane.
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Posted 5/23/11 , edited 5/23/11

huckdiane wrote:

That why I said that pairing up Gintoki with someone it's a lot more difficult than the other characters. If it happens it should be a female character created exactly for that purpose, and that's why so many people ship GinTsu (ME INCLUDED!!!) because when she appeared the first time she was really like a girl version of Gin, and while it became evident that she's got a crush on him, he also seemed quite attracted to her as well, and his interaction with Tsukuyo was somehow different from all the other girls. That's also what got people's attention and curiosity, even those who usually don't ship much. But on this new season she seems to have become just another regular part of the female cast who takes part of the gags like Otae, Sachan and Kyuubei. I wonder if she'll ever have a serious arc again.


By creating a female character solely for acting as the love interest of the protagonist, Sorachi would be plunging into the heart of Shounen cliche which he so frequently mocks.

I personally believe it is part of Gin-san's character to be unaffected by the so called feminine charm/ romanticly inclined encounters with women. Of course he is free to interpret the looks of each female character (which he sometimes does), but that does not mean he is romantically interested in them, as obviously shown by his lack of response/awareness to Tsukuyo's crush on him. He is a mature man, not a hormonal teenager, which is why he is not embarrassed when he accidentally touches boobs, for instance, and does not refrain from voicing his opinion (like how Tsukuyo is beautiful, which everyone knows). The whole charm of Gin-san as a protagonist personally, is his displays of maturity and understanding from an adult-stand point (he's grown out of the hormonal stage, and is a more experienced as an adult).

Tsukuyo may be cool, and as I've said before, I like her. But for her to be involved with Gin-san romantically and ruin this character of Gin-san is something which is far less appreciated by the rest of Gintama fans who do not care about GinTsukki. It's unlikely to happen anyway and as you've said, Tsukuyo's become a regular character.


Also, from my understanding, shippers like to form their own little theories why 2 characters should be together and so on, wouldn't an actual couple take the fun out of it? It would be like if Love Hina started out with Keitaro being in a relationship with naru (well, it was obvious, but the rest of the cast (even the loli) seemed to have a crush on him/had a fair chance).
.


And yeah Insane, it IS more fun to let imagination take care of pairings. Definitely more fun that way, since the lack of the pairing would make the heart fonder for it. XD


huckdiane wrote:

But speaking of the new season and character changes, as anyone noticed Kagura's behaviour is a bit different. She's still very childish, but also girlyer than ever before. It's just a bunch of episodes so maybe is a bit early to judge, but she seems much closer to the girls now, and hugs them a lot for little or no reason, even Sachan who she usually doesn't like very much. She also has female friend of her age (second part of episode 205) while before she just used to play with Yocchan and other boys, and was happy to do "girly stuff" during Valentines.
Wouldn't it be cute if she would start to look at Okita differently (I know, here we go again!). No even need to end up together, but the usual tension between them could be of a different nature...


Who knows. I like their rivarly-based relationship as it is. I don't mind the pairing though, plenty of room for imagination considering Kagura's gonna be a total babe in two years. 8D Of course highly unlikely it'd be canon though.

huckdiane wrote:

And anyway, why use such a good looking character design and put so many hot guys and pretty girls if Sorachi didn't want romance in the story or viewers/readers asking for it? Too late now to complain about people shipping couples. He should have gone with the Sazae-san style all the way then, not just as story format goes.

Of course he can't stop people from shipping couples, but that doesn't mean he'd let himself be a slave to them. It's his story, and it's up to him to decide what happens with it. It's up to us to imagine what MIGHT happen, and that's the fun part.


I'm all for crack pairing, sorachi should consider SadaharuXElizabeth. Homosexual interspecies bestiality anyone?

Also, thx for the info, never read up on Katsura Kogoro that much. Are we going to duke it out with info about ancient japanese history, first okita now katsura..


Pfft bestiality has already happened with the whole Elizabeth dating nurse thing. XD But yeah, I approve! Ahaha.

Lol, Gintama is just so full of historical references it's hard to avoid it. XD I love samurai history anyway. XD

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Posted 5/23/11

By creating a female character solely for acting as the love interest of the protagonist, Sorachi would be plunging into the heart of Shounen cliche which he so frequently mocks.


I just remembered someone, didn't sorachi already parody this with shinpachi's pen-friend, who looked exactly liked him?


Also i personally don't believe that Tsukuyo got created for the purpose of giving gin a love interest, she has enough personallity of her own and actually fulfilled her role in the yoshiwara arc.
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Posted 5/23/11 , edited 5/23/11
Yep, he did. Most of the shounen cliche usually happens to Shinpachi since he's still a teenager (so is more hormonal than Gin-san). XD Poor guy though. Ahaha.

That's what I think so too, which is why I don't like it when people are like, "Tsukki is made for Gin-san!!" when she clearly has shown her worth (and usefulness in terms of plot) as a character alone.
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Posted 5/23/11 , edited 5/23/11
Granted that's his story and he can do whatever he wants with it, but there's always a limit. What if he suddenly decided to kill off Gin, for whatever reason that might happen (getting bored of the story, running out of ideas, wanting to start a new project, etc.), do you really think the fans would take that well?!
Of course he's not a slave of his readers, but he shouldn't be a slave of the story and its chareacters either. When people say that the majority of the fans would be alienated if romance (even in a funny cracking way) is involved in the plot, doesn't that put a limit to Sorachi's creativity and how much he can explore the characters and their personalities? That makes him a slave of his story AND the fans.

As for Tsukuyo not being the right girl for Gin just because she's strong and cool enough on her own doesn't mean anything. So cool and kickass girls are supposed to stay always alone, while the damsel in distress gets a boyfriend. That's a nasty and nonsense clichè if you ask me.

But you're right, using our imagination is probably MUCH BETTER and FUNNIER!
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