First  Prev  1  2  3  Next  Last
Is it wrong?
Dragon Mod
45224 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M / OK, USA
Offline
Posted 11/4/12
Ask content creators if they're cool with you stealing what they make. Sure, someone who makes a chair can point to the materials they used to make the chair (wood, glue, screws, etc), and say that you owe them for that.. but the cost of the materials is nowhere near the cost of the chair. That's because you're also paying for the time to make the chair, and the skill to make the chair. Even if the chair can be scanned in and replicated with a 3D printer, you're still paying the original creator to make the original. In the case of anime, that's a lot of creators to make something good enough to watch in most cases.

Same goes for anything, to me. Doesn't matter if it's a stained glass window or music or a house or anime. Someone, or more likely a group of people, had to create the thing with skill and training and time. They aren't doing so out of the goodness of their hearts in most cases - if they do, they say so, and often specifically say it's okay to get their stuff for free. Usually, the people creating the stuff we enjoy are doing it for a living, and if we download it for free, that's not paying them for their work that we are enjoying. At best, they get paid as they're making their product, but if not enough people pay for it, they aren't asked to do further work, which seems counter to the fact that you might enjoy it enough to download it.

TL;DR - if the creator says it's cool to grab it for free, sure, do so. If not, they're asking you to pay for the work they put into the thing you're trying to enjoy so that they can continue to create things for you to enjoy and pay their rent.
3110 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 11/4/12

MakotoKamui wrote:


TL;DR - if the creator says it's cool to grab it for free, sure, do so. If not, they're asking you to pay for the work they put into the thing you're trying to enjoy so that they can continue to create things for you to enjoy and pay their rent.


This all the way. If one of you guys can show me where Gen Urobutchi, or the guys at Ufotable told me they're okay with me downloading Fate/Zero from coalgirls, link me please. Until then, you are stealing.
25160 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
17 / M / The Sarlacc Pit
Offline
Posted 11/4/12
I use some sites for fansubs (Anilinkz), but I also have the premium membership, and I don't watch stuff on there that I can get on here. I don't torrent (I had a bad experience), but it is not wrong.
Posted 11/4/12
I tend to say this a lot when it comes to this topic, but try putting yourself in the creators' shoes. You make/do something for a living, and get paid for doing it. Additionally, in the case of most types of media, your profit is linked to how well the show sells as well. So, if a lot of people are downloading your work illegally, would you seriously be fine with that? I don't mind doing things for free, but when it comes to my livelihood and my job, I definitely want to get paid. I think almost anyone else would too.

Granted, I think everyone who's seriously into anime has torrented something at one point or another. Sure, if you can't understand Japanese you can only watch certain shows through the use of unlicensed fansubs. But, I think when it comes down to it, torrenting anime or viewing fansubs that don't actually support the original creators in some way is morally wrong. There's plenty of other anime to watch out there, and if you really want to watch some shows that don't get picked up by Crunchyroll or other legitimate companies, then learn Japanese and import the DVDs.
41081 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
22 / M / 風の山
Offline
Posted 11/4/12
the op admits to torrenting and has a membership. that is enough for cr to revoke his membership.

and stealing is stealing. ur membership only follows for the content as use with the service. meaning cr shows only valid on cr. all it is is an unlock for you to access more shows on the site. you did not purchase a license to the series.

you only own right to viewing the resources when you actually own the product. putting it on torrent mean your putting it on a distribution list, which is not of your own rights. library's are free, if you get alot of people showing interest in anime, they will legitly purchase a bunch of anime even if they are subbed. there no need to torrent if you use a library often and show your support there.

membership don't mean much if you don't watch it here on cr. yea the company gets paid, but not nearly the amount if you actually watch it here.

all your doing is bending rules, the the rules your bending are the one you set in your head. not the legit rules that is stated verbatim.

your just a part of an illegal cult and don't even know it.
953 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / england
Offline
Posted 11/4/12

DetectiveAlex wrote:


Even in a lawless world, stealing is wrong to me. You can try and use prettier words like sharing if you want, but all torrentersare really doing is taking someones hard work, the work they do for a living, and giving it out for free.


it is not about using pretty words. It is not usually the person who makes it that makes the majority of money from it. so you could say the production company buys it from them then shares it themselves for a price but says to people they are not allowed to share what they have bought. Also if you've ever taken a DVD to a friends house to watch then you've esentially done the same thing. Just because there is a law against something doesn't make it morally wrong especially because a lot of laws are put in place to help the rich.
3110 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M
Offline
Posted 11/4/12

quaser666 wrote:


DetectiveAlex wrote:


Even in a lawless world, stealing is wrong to me. You can try and use prettier words like sharing if you want, but all torrentersare really doing is taking someones hard work, the work they do for a living, and giving it out for free.


it is not about using pretty words. It is not usually the person who makes it that makes the majority of money from it. so you could say the production company buys it from them then shares it themselves for a price but says to people they are not allowed to share what they have bought. Also if you've ever taken a DVD to a friends house to watch then you've esentially done the same thing. Just because there is a law against something doesn't make it morally wrong especially because a lot of laws are put in place to help the rich.


The difference between a company licensing something and someone torrenting anime is simple: permission.

Here's a scenario for you, I've created an independent film. I lack the means to get it out there for people to see. So sell rights to WB. They market my film with my permission, and we both profit.

Here's how stealing media works. Someone decides to torrent my movie from piratebay instead of buying it. They don't ask my permission. I and WB own the movie. You buy from us if you want to own it as well.

As for your example about movies and friends homes, that is within your right as the owner of that DVD. What is not within your rights it to rip it and upload it onto youtube.

I really agree with the portion I bolded though.
953 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / england
Offline
Posted 11/4/12

DetectiveAlex wrote:


The difference between a company licensing something and someone torrenting anime is simple: permission.

Here's a scenario for you, I've created an independent film. I lack the means to get it out there for people to see. So sell rights to WB. They market my film with my permission, and we both profit.

Here's how stealing media works. Someone decides to torrent my movie from piratebay instead of buying it. They don't ask my permission. I and WB own the movie. You buy from us if you want to own it as well.

As for your example about movies and friends homes, that is within your right as the owner of that DVD. What is not within your rights it to rip it and upload it onto youtube.

I really agree with the portion I bolded though.


I do agree people should be paid for their work but production companies are greedy and not being allowed to share what you've bought is like a car company saying you are not allowed to take passengers. I think if you make a good quality product a lot of people will want to own an official copy so you'll still make a lot of money. As for the friends homes I think the laws are different here in the UK.
17082 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Lincoln, UK
Offline
Posted 11/4/12

DetectiveAlex wrote:


AmateurDude wrote:


DetectiveAlex wrote:

I don't know how you guys could justify stealing. That's what you're doing; you're stealing. Just admit you're wrong.


Ehhhh I err.. Not really stealing though..


Yeah you are. You're taking something that you should be paying for and getting it free. That is stealing.


It is technically not stealing as you're not taking it, you're copying it. Copyright Infringement is really the best description, because you're infringing their exclusive right to distribute copies.

On topic, I'd say that strictly it's illegal, but personally it's a grey area.
Posted 11/4/12 , edited 11/4/12


Despite this, I still feel piracy is wrong in it's own right, but only if you decide to pirate something you previously intended to buy. For example, I want to buy Linkin Park's new album 'Living Things'. If I went and pirated it, I'd be a bad person, because I intended to buy it but instead didn't wait to save up and actually get it, making the band lose a potential customer. However, if my friend said "Hey check out CrossFaith's new album!", I'd torrent / download it, listen to it, and if I'm not a fan, just get rid of it. If I liked it, I'd buy it so I'm supporting the band. Simple as that.
18142 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / M / Monrovia,CA
Online
Posted 11/4/12
It's illegal, but you wont get caught.
23545 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M
Offline
Posted 11/4/12 , edited 11/4/12
I think that if you live in North America, you should try to buy some series on disc if you have the means to support this hobby with some of your disposable income. It is good to help support these western companies that license shows and to support those in Japan that make the shows. I understand a lot of people like to download licensed series, but I encourage people to support the industry with their money, even if all they can afford is a small amount.

I mention North America because anime is more affordable than ever in North America. Look at how lucky we are. You can buy a lot of anime series/seasons in these complete collection packages (either for a whole series or two for one season or a series). Some of them can be pricey, but you'll find a lot of them in the $20-$40 range, which isn't bad. Some go for under $20, even. Consider when anime was releasing on DVD back in 2004 (when DVD was around for a little while), the usual price for one DVD volume was $20 a pop.

Now look at buying anime on disc in Japan. A single volume of a series on Blu-ray (with about 4-5 episodes) goes for the equivalent of $90! (I found out why they do this, but it still really sucks for Japanese anime fans) But think of that, it'll cost around $260-$270 for a 13 episode series if you live in Japan.

North American anime fans can't complain about DVD and Blu-ray prices in light of this, and more of them should support the companies that license animes and that produce animes.
14218 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / Upstate NY
Offline
Posted 11/4/12
Is it wrong is more a question of self morals. If YOU think it is then it is, if not then so be it.
From a legal view yes its flat out wrong.

I'm "forcibly retired" from this type of venture so its up to you how far down this rabbit hole torrenting leads you. I was lucky, since i'm still on the net, but other are not so keep moderation in mind and buy when you can i mean you like it why not support it.
66794 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / ???????? ?? ?????
Offline
Posted 11/4/12

Skyismine wrote:

It's illegal, but you wont get caught.


Lot of News reports on here state otherwise.
23545 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M
Offline
Posted 11/4/12 , edited 11/4/12
Crunchyroll posted this article. Take a look. (You'll have to copy and paste)

http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2012/11/04/anonymous-animator-describes-torturous-daily-grind


The more that anime fans, collectively, support the industry with their money; instead of just torrenting everything, the more they help some average joe like that animator get a bit more money in his or her bank account. If many more anime fans in the west, who have the means to afford some of their favorite series on disc, do purchase them, they are helping the profits of companies in Japan and it trickles down to the people that created the animes we enjoy. The more western anime fans that make purchases, the more money that trickles down to them.

Also, the one year subscription to Crunchyroll is good. It supports the industry, and many hear have done a yearly subscription or have done a number of them, so that is good.
First  Prev  1  2  3  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.