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Lolicon -Lolita Complex..? What's your take ?
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Posted 6/5/11
Forgive me if someone has already said this, I've had a long, 12hr day, and all I want to do right now is crawl into bed and just sleep.
But I can't. So I'm here. Hi

What I'm about to say may offend some of you, I'd like to take the time right now to state that I, in no shape, form, or manner, support the depiction of minors in any kind of sexual manner. This is period, point and blank.

With that out of the way, let me state that first off, we're talking about two completely different cultures. What we grew up to accept as right or wrong, isn't the same as what an average person in Japan(Or any of the Asian countries.) grew up to accept as right and wrong.
What you're experiencing now is what's called culture shock. It makes no rhyme or reason, it's just wrong, how in the hell can they allow this to go on?

Different cultures have different boundaries. Take our own for example (American Culture) Just a few short years ago, the average life span of any man was around 40 years, sometimes better depending on lifestyle and availability to proper health care. It wasn't a strange sight to see a man of 16-20 marrying girls as young as 12. As soon as the girl had her first period, she was a woman, and it was time to get married.
What if we were to go even farther back? Would we really see any big differences? No. While it's not a good thing, it's going to be around, forever.

Why forever you may ask? Think about a different type of abuse. IE: Spousal Abuse. We all know someone who just keeps going back to the one person then really shouldn't be with, period. More often then not, it ends with someone beaten, bloody, and in the hospital.
But what happens? It starts all over again.
Pedophilia is the same thing, an attraction to a particular type.
While we may gasp and moan and wonder why it happens as openly as it does in Japan, you just have to realize two things, one, you can't stop it. No one can. Out there, somewhere, is a man getting his jollies off to some little girl.
Two, bitching, complaining, and acting shocked isn't going to do anything.
Chao_Sweetie, there's a lot more on the internet, things you can never unsee. If something as harmless as those pictures (And those are harmless, regardless of the subject) upsets you that badly, it might be time to unplug your computer and focus on other areas in your life. No, I'm not attacking you personally, I'm just saying it outright.

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Posted 6/5/11
Well my issue with it would be if the genre does encourage the concept of treating kids as a sexual objects. Its a trend that is getting worse in all societies. I mean I've found bras targeted at 6-7 year old children, really is it necessary? There is a growing list of things targeted towards encouraging young kids to act promiscuous as if its O.K. In contrast the 'Lolita Genre' in Anime can be seen as a media form that promotes the concept as being acceptable in society and the adult community. The problem is if it is considered as paraphernalia tools for pedophiles and if it fuels their urges to commit something.

Yes, yes it is all fiction but frankly I don't differentiate between a photo and a drawn picture of the exact same thing.

Posted 6/5/11 , edited 6/6/11

varnlestoff wrote:

Definitely. I wish there would actually be a bigger push to bring Anime to the west. Not only as a fan, but because it would raise the standard rate of pay for those working in the Anime industry, allowing the industry to grow instead of decline. On top of that, better social standards allowed by pay increase would influence motivation and with more people on the field you would start seeing a lot more interesting and creative work being pushed out.

It's win win, except religion hates it. Did you watch Toonami back in the day? That shit was the best. Not only were the lineups pretty good, but the pre show bumps and trailers were truly epic and motivational.


Back on topic. Since people feel so opposed to lolicon, they could sick the rabid Christian fundamentalists on it. If anything, you would probably come to find a fundie's own personal computer filled to the brim with "research materials" (loli) that would only serve to put a dent in such a cause dedicated to removing it, since that would arouse the suspicions of inquisitive people examining the morale of those involved. Any movement against lolicon then might come to be considered a front for a collective of loliphiles, which would be a hilarious contradiction if proven true, in any case.
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Posted 6/5/11
Years ago when I did graduate work in the field of psychology I found several reference books that discussed changing mores and value systems over the centuries about the role of children in a society. There was a time many centuries ago where children were looked upon as mere representations of miniature adults who would, in later years, develop into larger and/or taller adults. It sounds simplistic, possibly revolting, in today's terms to believe the ancients were so ignorant of a child's physiology yet in the Greek-Roman times certain contemporary scholars have ascertained these beliefs then may have been fairly common and managed to persist into the 15th-16th Centuries.

Therefore, adult interaction with children in a familial way (far beyond boundaries acceptable today) dates back to ancient history and was, for a period of time, an accepted part of the human condition. Over time medical, physio- and psychological discoveries about mankind eventually led to different parameters of understanding or construct about how to treat, raise, and respect children in their formative years of development.

I won't go so far as to make a causal statement about lolicon attraction stemming from psycho-social issues mentioned above but it is possible to understand how pedophilia is still relevant in today's times given such a historical past.
Posted 6/5/11 , edited 6/5/11

bemused_Bohemian wrote:

Years ago when I did graduate work in the field of psychology I found several reference books that discussed changing mores and value systems over the centuries about the role of children in a society. There was a time many centuries ago where children were looked upon as mere representations of miniature adults who would, in later years, develop into larger and/or taller adults. It sounds simplistic, possibly revolting, in today's terms to believe the ancients were so ignorant of a child's physiology yet in the Greek-Roman times certain contemporary scholars have ascertained these beliefs then may have been fairly common and managed to persist into the 15th-16th Centuries.

Therefore, adult interaction with children in a familial way (far beyond boundaries acceptable today) dates back to ancient history and was, for a period of time, an accepted part of the human condition. Over time medical, physio- and psychological discoveries about mankind eventually led to different parameters of understanding or construct about how to treat, raise, and respect children in their formative years of development.

I won't go so far as to make a causal statement about lolicon attraction stemming from psycho-social issues mentioned above but it is possible to understand how pedophilia is still relevant in today's times given such a historical past.


I've read something about this. In the past, the outlook on what is a minor today, was not of innocence , purity and protection. In today's society, adults are vermin, and youth is sacred. In the past, youth was vermin, or incomplete, and they had to prove their worth to become an adult. This was largely in part due to the parallels that it struck with religious teachings.

It makes sense coming from a quick read through the bible. According to Christianity, you are born into the world as a sinner, and only through hard work, may you relinquish the sin. The Age of Enlightenment following the Dark Ages played a large role in the shift of perception, and as modern sciences began to take off much faster, so did our understandings and moral practices.

It's a 180 degree perception shift. Back in the day, there wasn't even a word such as 'child'. It literally did not exist. You were either an adult or a pesty little person who needed to hurry up and contribute to society.

Very archaic ways of thinking. Even with modern perception you still have things like child labor in the world. Big corporations buy land in foreign countries and offer the worst possible jobs so that people can eat and kids get stuck in work conditions that can make you sick to your stomach. They actually set wages by the calculating within the hundredth of a second so that the business doesn't lose a penny more than they have to.

Humanity has a long ways to go, there are still plenty of inhumane problems that need to be addressed. The biggest problems like child labor seem to only expand as industry grows and become more powerful.
Posted 6/5/11 , edited 6/5/11

bemused_Bohemian wrote:

Years ago when I did graduate work in the field of psychology I found several reference books that discussed changing mores and value systems over the centuries about the role of children in a society. There was a time many centuries ago where children were looked upon as mere representations of miniature adults who would, in later years, develop into larger and/or taller adults. It sounds simplistic, possibly revolting, in today's terms to believe the ancients were so ignorant of a child's physiology yet in the Greek-Roman times certain contemporary scholars have ascertained these beliefs then may have been fairly common and managed to persist into the 15th-16th Centuries.

Therefore, adult interaction with children in a familial way (far beyond boundaries acceptable today) dates back to ancient history and was, for a period of time, an accepted part of the human condition. Over time medical, physio- and psychological discoveries about mankind eventually led to different parameters of understanding or construct about how to treat, raise, and respect children in their formative years of development.

I won't go so far as to make a causal statement about lolicon attraction stemming from psycho-social issues mentioned above but it is possible to understand how pedophilia is still relevant in today's times given such a historical past.


I think it is more accurate to say that adults are simply children in larger bodies. We often wear a poker face of composure in our professional endeavors as adults, but still often retain the playfulness of youth reserved for a proper time and place.

I concur with how pedophilia is "relevant" in some sense within today's society, given how the Greeks once seen a man being sensual with a boy as a right of passage, and no harm came of it. Now, in the case of John Wayne Gacy, his pursuits were linked to psychopathy. He simply enjoyed doing what he did akin to a child tearing the wings off an insect. He was punished as a murderer and rapist with execution, and several doctors testified in court about their diagnosing him as a paranoid schizophrenic with multiple personalities, but the findings were proven false given how it was proven that Gacy premeditated his actions in a "sane" manner. His diagnosis as a psychopath followed later on.

Lolicon could, to some, be considered an outlet for anyone with certain sensitivities. It can be labelled a morbid fascination to no end, yet it is better than having a deranged pedophile on the loose victimizing children.
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Posted 6/5/11
I personally don't find that an attraction to young girls is a normal practice. I wish those people could be helped but honestly i don't think its possible. I think the best thing for pedophiles is to be put in jail. Since you can't "cure" them of their obsessions then it can't be helped. The amount of sexual assaults in the U.S. seems to be on the rise because more and more men out there feel that targeting a child for immoral purposes is okay and perfectly sane. These people need help but how can you cure something that these pedophiles say are not a problem. To them its perfectly normal and acceptable. Me personally i don't care for Lolicon in the least. The only time i think having young children in anime is when the nature of said anime is not sexual. Sister princess for example is a loli in a sense because some of the sisters are very young. But, this is perfectly acceptable since the material presented is one of heart warming love between a sister and brother and not of immoral design. But in the long run there is also the argument of age of consent. Since this topic intrigues me i found that most countries the age of consent is 16. The youngest age i found between most places was about 13 years old. This may be disgusting and albeit strange to us but for these places its law and its legal. I guess that is why the Japanese don't have a problem with underage girls in hentai being in sexual situations. I personally don't care for it. But when you are told to believe and grow up believing that having feelings for a young girl at 13 is normal than what else would you expect the outcome to be? That's how i see it. I've had some detailed debates on this very subject on more than one occasion since its a serious social issue at least in America it seems to be.
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Posted 6/5/11
i have a loli fetish. and i'm a girl. ಠ_ಠ
Posted 6/5/11 , edited 6/5/11

Sonovabitch wrote:


bemused_Bohemian wrote:

Years ago when I did graduate work in the field of psychology I found several reference books that discussed changing mores and value systems over the centuries about the role of children in a society. There was a time many centuries ago where children were looked upon as mere representations of miniature adults who would, in later years, develop into larger and/or taller adults. It sounds simplistic, possibly revolting, in today's terms to believe the ancients were so ignorant of a child's physiology yet in the Greek-Roman times certain contemporary scholars have ascertained these beliefs then may have been fairly common and managed to persist into the 15th-16th Centuries.

Therefore, adult interaction with children in a familial way (far beyond boundaries acceptable today) dates back to ancient history and was, for a period of time, an accepted part of the human condition. Over time medical, physio- and psychological discoveries about mankind eventually led to different parameters of understanding or construct about how to treat, raise, and respect children in their formative years of development.

I won't go so far as to make a causal statement about lolicon attraction stemming from psycho-social issues mentioned above but it is possible to understand how pedophilia is still relevant in today's times given such a historical past.


I think it is more accurate to say that adults are simply children in larger bodies. We often wear a poker face of composure in our professional endeavors as adults, but still often retain the playfulness of youth reserved for a proper time and place.

I concur with how pedophilia is "relevant" in some sense within today's society, given how the Greeks once seen a man being sensual with a boy as a right of passage, and no harm came of it. Now, in the case of John Wayne Gacy, his pursuits were surprisingly not linked to any mental defects. He simply enjoyed doing what he did akin to a child tearing the wings off an insect. He was punished as a murderer and rapist with execution, and several doctors testified in court about their diagnosing him as a paranoid schizophrenic with multiple personalities, but the findings were proven false given how it was proven that Gacy premeditated his actions in a sane manner.

Lolicon could, to some, be considered an outlet for anyone with certain sensitivities. It can be labelled a morbid fascination to no end, yet it is better than having a deranged pedophile on the loose victimizing children.


In a sense I agree. The saying, always a child at heart, holds some truth. Who the hell disowns having fun. Your legs may break down as you get older, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't want to run around and have fun.

The point where there is a infallible shift, is in that adults are held accountable based on the power and deeds of society. It is very justifiable in the sense that adults have been around on earth long enough to have seen and made up our minds about how we see things like war, corporate greed, slavery. This doesn't make it science fact, or morally unambiguous.

Then again I always did cheat at cards so what the fuck, my bad. Then again, being called cheap is more or less a compliment to me. I just consider being cheap as a clever use of available options.
Posted 6/5/11 , edited 6/6/11

varnlestoff wrote:

In a sense I agree. The saying, always a child at heart, holds some truth. Who the hell disowns having fun. Your legs may break down as you get older, but that doesn't mean you wouldn't want to run around and have fun.

The point where there is a infallible shift, is in that adults are held accountable based on the power and deeds of society. It is very justifiable in the sense that adults have been around on earth long enough to have seen and made up our minds about how we see things like war, corporate greed, slavery. Then again I always did cheat at cards so what the fuck, my bad. Then again, being called cheap is more or less a compliment to me. I just consider being cheap as a clever use of available options.


I have made a few corrections about Gacy to my recent post, but beyond that, Gacy's brain was even dissected to reveal no physical defects. Was he truly insane? Hard to say.

Frugality to some is a virtue, but when applied to concept of cheating to "cheaply" obtain something, Five Finger Discount doesn't seem morally sound for most. This cheapness can also be viewed in the context of preferring victimization of a child over courting an adult. Theft of anything is deemed reprehensible. Even a thief wouldn't want to be stolen from, and an adult might wish they hadn't had their virginity stolen during childhood, either.
Posted 6/5/11 , edited 6/6/11

Sonovabitch wrote:

I have made a few corrections about Gacy to my recent post, but beyond that, Gacy's brain was even dissected to reveal no physical defects. Was he truly insane? Hard to say.

Frugality to some is a virtue, but when applied to concept of cheating to "cheaply" obtain something, Five Finger Discount doesn't seem morally sound for most. This cheapness can also be viewed in the context of preferring victimization of a child over courting an adult. Theft of anything is deemed reprehensible. Even a thief wouldn't want to be stolen from, and an adult might wish they hadn't had their virginity stolen during childhood, either.


Well, being cheap still requires a lot of practice. Sleight of hand isn't easy to master either. Yeah to those who don't do it, especially those with immense honor, it seems like an easy route. But it requires it's own practice and it is definitely a skill set. When being upfront and close, it's more difficult to trick a perceptive individual than it is to be honest. It's really a side door leading to the same objective.
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Posted 6/5/11
I don't really care about people taking a liking on children as long as it doesn't materialize.
Posted 6/5/11 , edited 6/6/11

varnlestoff wrote:

Well, being cheap still requires a lot of practice. Sleight of hand isn't easy to master either. Yeah to those who don't do it, especially those with immense honor, it seems like an easy route. But it can be it's own skill set, and merely a side door leading to the same objective.


"Sleight of Hand" is what you meant, and is practiced by magicians and card sharps. The hand is, indeed, quicker than the eye.

And now a thought comes to mind... lolicon as being a means to thieve a person's preference and transmuting it into infatuation with prepubescent girls. This is way off the beaten path, but could some people be attempting to mass produce loliphiles?
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Posted 6/5/11
i don't like the other two....

well, anyway i'm not a fan of lolicon, lolita or whatever...
not at all...
Posted 6/5/11 , edited 6/6/11

Sonovabitch wrote:

"Sleight of Hand" is what you meant, and is practiced by magicians and card sharps. The hand is, indeed, quicker than the eye.

And now a thought comes to mind... lolicon as being a means to thieve a person's preference and transmuting it into infatuation with prepubescent girls. This is way off the beaten path, but could some people be attempting to mass produce loliphiles?


Haha fixed it right in time!

Watching Welcome to the NHK would probably clarify your question in a symbolic sense...
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