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Posted 6/20/08

Shinjy wrote:

...you try to convert a Christian, but they are just sooo stubborn! I've tend to noticed that hard core Christians are really stubborn?


So are bitter and hardened Atheists. ^_^
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Posted 6/22/08

Shinjy wrote:

...you try to convert a Christian, but they are just sooo stubborn! I've tend to noticed that hard core Christians are really stubborn?


What’s so wrong with that? You know, Christians believe that Christianity is good. So, trying to convert a Christian is like trying to convince them to do something they think is bad. It’d be a lot like…if I tried to convince you to rape and murder your mother.

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Posted 6/29/08

Shinjy wrote:

...you try to convert a Christian, but they are just sooo stubborn! I've tend to noticed that hard core Christians are really stubborn?


What did you expect? they got the number one defence...
faith, think about it: Its believing without any evidence..
the hardcore ones have dilusion, its believing, despite evidence..

You already lost from the start..

And dont "convert" for the wrong reasons, we shouldnt act like some army out converting people, heck i dont care if they a christians as long as they dont poison other people..

If that professor dude, who talked about living for a thousands of years was talking truth about replacing damaged dna, i could live longer and see religion die, im pretty certain it will happen in a couple of hundred years or so...
that could be cool
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Posted 7/12/08

saywhaat wrote:


Shinjy wrote:

...you try to convert a Christian, but they are just sooo stubborn! I've tend to noticed that hard core Christians are really stubborn?


What did you expect? they got the number one defence...
faith, think about it: Its believing without any evidence..
the hardcore ones have dilusion, its believing, despite evidence..

You already lost from the start..

And dont "convert" for the wrong reasons, we shouldnt act like some army out converting people, heck i dont care if they a christians as long as they dont poison other people..

If that professor dude, who talked about living for a thousands of years was talking truth about replacing damaged dna, i could live longer and see religion die, im pretty certain it will happen in a couple of hundred years or so...
that could be cool :)


...I doubt religion will die in a thousand years.... Maybe organized religion in the western world, but not religion.
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Posted 7/13/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


Shinjy wrote:

...you try to convert a Christian, but they are just sooo stubborn! I've tend to noticed that hard core Christians are really stubborn?


What’s so wrong with that? You know, Christians believe that Christianity is good. So, trying to convert a Christian is like trying to convince them to do something they think is bad. It’d be a lot like…if I tried to convince you to rape and murder your mother.



lol, are you comparing, converting from one religion to "no religion/another religion" is bad to the extend that raping and murdering your own mother is? thats not fair, even your average christian would agree on that..
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Posted 7/13/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


saywhaat wrote:


Shinjy wrote:

...you try to convert a Christian, but they are just sooo stubborn! I've tend to noticed that hard core Christians are really stubborn?


What did you expect? they got the number one defence...
faith, think about it: Its believing without any evidence..
the hardcore ones have dilusion, its believing, despite evidence..

You already lost from the start..

And dont "convert" for the wrong reasons, we shouldnt act like some army out converting people, heck i dont care if they a christians as long as they dont poison other people..

If that professor dude, who talked about living for a thousands of years was talking truth about replacing damaged dna, i could live longer and see religion die, im pretty certain it will happen in a couple of hundred years or so...
that could be cool :)


...I doubt religion will die in a thousand years.... Maybe organized religion in the western world, but not religion.


thats because i differentiate between harmful religion and religion like here in Denmark..
Come one, theres a Pastor here who calls himself an atheist, many christias here if you ask them if they believe in god, jesus, or the bible say no, dispite that they call themselves christians
Its not this kind of "religion" im thinking will die, im thinking in a couple of hundred years, almost every single person who could manage to call them selves a christian or buddist or whatever would likely be saying along the lines of those who pretend to be christians here in dk..

Soon after that Churches will be run, simply based on Traditions, its just isnt worth it anymore because it doesnt earn enough money..
well, it might also have been very "optimistic" numbers, though i wouldnt estimate it to a thousand..
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Posted 7/13/08

saywhaat wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:


Shinjy wrote:

...you try to convert a Christian, but they are just sooo stubborn! I've tend to noticed that hard core Christians are really stubborn?


What’s so wrong with that? You know, Christians believe that Christianity is good. So, trying to convert a Christian is like trying to convince them to do something they think is bad. It’d be a lot like…if I tried to convince you to rape and murder your mother.



lol, are you comparing, converting from one religion to "no religion/another religion" is bad to the extend that raping and murdering your own mother is? thats not fair, even your average christian would agree on that..


I’m just saying that Christians think of denouncing Christ as an “ultimate evil,” or “betrayal,” and for most of us it -is- a sin on par with murder and rape. Think about what we believe. We believe this guy came down and -for our sake- was brutally beaten, imprisoned, tortured, and crucified. The only thing he asks in return is that we believe. He advices certain behaviors but requires nothing except faith.

To turn on somebody like that…who died, was tortured, who dove into the pits of hell on earth for us… Yeah, I’d diffidently consider that on par with murder.
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Posted 7/13/08

saywhaat wrote:

...I doubt religion will die in a thousand years.... Maybe organized religion in the western world, but not religion.


thats because i differentiate between harmful religion and religion like here in Denmark..
Come one, theres a Pastor here who calls himself an atheist, many christias here if you ask them if they believe in god, jesus, or the bible say no, dispite that they call themselves christians
Its not this kind of "religion" im thinking will die, im thinking in a couple of hundred years, almost every single person who could manage to call them selves a christian or buddist or whatever would likely be saying along the lines of those who pretend to be christians here in dk..

Soon after that Churches will be run, simply based on Traditions, its just isnt worth it anymore because it doesnt earn enough money..
well, it might also have been very "optimistic" numbers, though i wouldnt estimate it to a thousand..

Well, I’m not an atheist. I very much believe in God. Do you think my religion is “harmful?”

Whatever the case, religion has had good and bad effects on society since her dawn. This is simply a historical fact. Another historical fact, however, is that religion has been around for a very long time and she ain’t going anywhere any time soon. I think your prediction may be naïve. It's a large scale assumption people are passing around, but one that is based entirely off of chronological snobbery.
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Posted 7/13/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


saywhaat wrote:


SeraphAlford wrote:


Shinjy wrote:

...you try to convert a Christian, but they are just sooo stubborn! I've tend to noticed that hard core Christians are really stubborn?


What’s so wrong with that? You know, Christians believe that Christianity is good. So, trying to convert a Christian is like trying to convince them to do something they think is bad. It’d be a lot like…if I tried to convince you to rape and murder your mother.



lol, are you comparing, converting from one religion to "no religion/another religion" is bad to the extend that raping and murdering your own mother is? thats not fair, even your average christian would agree on that..


I’m just saying that Christians think of denouncing Christ as an “ultimate evil,” or “betrayal,” and for most of us it -is- a sin on par with murder and rape. Think about what we believe. We believe this guy came down and -for our sake- was brutally beaten, imprisoned, tortured, and crucified. The only thing he asks in return is that we believe. He advices certain behaviors but requires nothing except faith.

To turn on somebody like that…who died, was tortured, who dove into the pits of hell on earth for us… Yeah, I’d diffidently consider that on par with murder.


You do? You ACTUALLY would place the "belief" on somebody, even how heroic he was on par with murdering your own mother? You are insane dude..

I dont care if it you believe it was your best friend who saved earth from a big snake, and got tortured for it by earthlings, to par THAT BELIEF with murder by YOUR own hands is insane, and you should evaluate your beliefs because they could turn out dangerous..
Its Christians like you who helped me denounce Christianity..

To actually par any belief no matter how heroic they are to murdering your own mother by your own hands is to me on the border of insanity..
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Posted 7/13/08

Well, I’m not an atheist. I very much believe in God. Do you think my religion is “harmful?”

Whatever the case, religion has had good and bad effects on society since her dawn. This is simply a historical fact. Another historical fact, however, is that religion has been around for a very long time and she ain’t going anywhere any time soon. I think your prediction may be naïve. It's a large scale assumption people are passing around, but one that is based entirely off of chronological snobbery.


Yes i think you religion is harmful, it may have served its purpose in the dark ages by keeping social order, but now its only a hindrance to our progress, and i think that soon people will realise that.
As i said my estimate might have been a tad too optimistic, i do however believe its before a thousand years..

P.S You are an atheist, face it...
May Allah have mercy on your sole, or Odin...
Maybe even Yahwe..

We are all atheist concerning many of the gods out there.. :)
SeraphAlford is an atheist, naah naah nah naah nah..
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Posted 7/13/08

saywhaat wrote:

You do? You ACTUALLY would place the "belief" on somebody, even how heroic he was on par with murdering your own mother? You are insane dude..


I’m sure I am insane. I mean, I have different values than you so I have to be crazy.


I dont care if it you believe it was your best friend who saved earth from a big snake, and got tortured for it by earthlings, to par THAT BELIEF


Really, because the idea that murdering is wrong is in fact a belief itself. Actually, if you want to get technical there’s more fact to Jesus dying on the cross than there is to “murdering your mother is wrong.” My statement that Jesus died on the cross is a historically documented and accepted thing.

Your moral declaration is entirely opinion. Well, if you want to get right down to it the fact is that you believe your mother exists. You don’t know it. You simply perceive it as extremely likely and don’t see any reason to question it. The problem with this is that I perceive Jesus Christ’s existence as divinity extremely likely and haven’t heard a plausible counter-argument in my defense of him yet.

So, why is it that if I say, “I value A more than B,” makes me insane but you’re at liberty to choose your values?


with murder by YOUR own hands is insane, and you should evaluate your beliefs because they could turn out dangerous..


I think you’re seriously misunderstanding my stance. Jesus’ sacrifice is something I value more than the life of my family, but not because what it was. It’s because what he was.

Honestly, if he were the type of person to use his authority to make people hurt each other then I wouldn’t love him and his sacrifice wouldn’t mean anything to me. He wouldn’t have been Jesus as Jesus is, he’d be something else entirely with the same name.


Its Christians like you who helped me denounce Christianity..


Not at all. That’s just your method of “placing the blame,” on other people. You made that choice yourself. Volition, free will, these are great miracles of humanity. What we do with them, however, is entirely up to us.


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Posted 7/13/08

saywhaat wrote:

Yes i think you religion is harmful, it may have served its purpose in the dark ages by keeping social order, but now its only a hindrance to our progress, and i think that soon people will realise that.
As i said my estimate might have been a tad too optimistic, i do however believe its before a thousand years..

P.S You are an atheist, face it...
May Allah have mercy on your sole, or Odin...
Maybe even Yahwe..

We are all atheist concerning many of the gods out there.. :)
SeraphAlford is an atheist, naah naah nah naah nah..


Actually, I’m not an atheist-but you are religious, to an extreme degree.

An atheist is somebody who doesn’t believe in any god or deities and doesn‘t follow any religion. (Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.)

Religions don’t all revolve around divinity.


One way or the other, I don’t consider being called an atheist as an insult. That seems like a very strange taunt to me, because people can’t always help what they believe. That'd be like calling me black na nan na na
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Posted 7/13/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


saywhaat wrote:

Yes i think you religion is harmful, it may have served its purpose in the dark ages by keeping social order, but now its only a hindrance to our progress, and i think that soon people will realise that.
As i said my estimate might have been a tad too optimistic, i do however believe its before a thousand years..

P.S You are an atheist, face it...
May Allah have mercy on your sole, or Odin...
Maybe even Yahwe..

We are all atheist concerning many of the gods out there.. :)
SeraphAlford is an atheist, naah naah nah naah nah..


Actually, I’m not an atheist-but you are religious, to an extreme degree.

An atheist is somebody who doesn’t believe in any god or deities and doesn‘t follow any religion. (Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.)

Religions don’t all revolve around divinity.


One way or the other, I don’t consider being called an atheist as an insult. That seems like a very strange taunt to me, because people can’t always help what they believe. That'd be like calling me black na nan na na


a·the·ist Audio Help (ā'thē-ĭst) Pronunciation Key
n. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

Nah nah nah whatever..
you ARE an atheist, huhuhuhu..

religious? me? noooway, am i? oh nooo..
i dont give a damn, thats not "my" problem..

well, if you are religious about soccor, and then religious about religion seems to me very different, well i might just look into that later on...
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Posted 7/13/08 , edited 7/13/08

SeraphAlford wrote:


saywhaat wrote:

You do? You ACTUALLY would place the "belief" on somebody, even how heroic he was on par with murdering your own mother? You are insane dude..


I’m sure I am insane. I mean, I have different values than you so I have to be crazy.


I dont care if it you believe it was your best friend who saved earth from a big snake, and got tortured for it by earthlings, to par THAT BELIEF


Really, because the idea that murdering is wrong is in fact a belief itself. Actually, if you want to get technical there’s more fact to Jesus dying on the cross than there is to “murdering your mother is wrong.” My statement that Jesus died on the cross is a historically documented and accepted thing.

Your moral declaration is entirely opinion. Well, if you want to get right down to it the fact is that you believe your mother exists. You don’t know it. You simply perceive it as extremely likely and don’t see any reason to question it. The problem with this is that I perceive Jesus Christ’s existence as divinity extremely likely and haven’t heard a plausible counter-argument in my defense of him yet.

So, why is it that if I say, “I value A more than B,” makes me insane but you’re at liberty to choose your values?


with murder by YOUR own hands is insane, and you should evaluate your beliefs because they could turn out dangerous..


I think you’re seriously misunderstanding my stance. Jesus’ sacrifice is something I value more than the life of my family, but not because what it was. It’s because what he was.

Honestly, if he were the type of person to use his authority to make people hurt each other then I wouldn’t love him and his sacrifice wouldn’t mean anything to me. He wouldn’t have been Jesus as Jesus is, he’d be something else entirely with the same name.


Its Christians like you who helped me denounce Christianity..


Not at all. That’s just your method of “placing the blame,” on other people. You made that choice yourself. Volition, free will, these are great miracles of humanity. What we do with them, however, is entirely up to us.





I’m sure I am insane. I mean, I have different values than you so I have to be crazy.

To the extend that the gangbangers downtown who robbed the lickerstore and shot the clerk, is insane..

Dont you really think that there is something wrong going on when you start thinking about comparing "yourself murdering" your mother, with the belief of Jesus, even if it was fact, i would have never come up with that...


Really, because the idea that murdering is wrong is in fact a belief itself. Actually, if you want to get technical there’s more fact to Jesus dying on the cross than there is to “murdering your mother is wrong.” My statement that Jesus died on the cross is a historically documented and accepted thing.

a belief itself? It is obvious that it is wrong, not because someone divine said so, but simply because you are taking a life again someones will, and that taking life agains peoples will, does not do any god to our survival, not only does it create distress among comon folk, but its against the law.. (laws that we worked hard on, so that it could benefit out society)

And what? Jesus hanged on a cross has evidence? Dont give me that crap, you cant just go around making stuff up, without something to show me.. historically accepted thing? give me a break man.. You just pulled that right out of your ass.. :)



I think you’re seriously misunderstanding my stance. Jesus’ sacrifice is something I value more than the life of my family, but not because what it was. It’s because what he was.

Honestly, if he were the type of person to use his authority to make people hurt each other then I wouldn’t love him and his sacrifice wouldn’t mean anything to me. He wouldn’t have been Jesus as Jesus is, he’d be something else entirely with the same name.


Well i did not misunderstand anything, i value my family more than that, either way..
He might have been the son of god (most likely he wasnt) still that you could justefy that with murdering your mother (even family as you mentioned just now)
Face it, we can never agree on this, maybe its because i cant believe in jesus (i doubt it though)
I simply cant put myself in your shoes.. No matter how much i try to believe in jesus, i could never compare a belief, or even truth to the murder of my family, specially by my hands...
i just cant...

Jesus? Authority? I dont doubt you have read the bible, we are prob interpreting in differently, since all i say was a misuse of that said authority...


Not at all. That’s just your method of “placing the blame,” on other people. You made that choice yourself. Volition, free will, these are great miracles of humanity. What we do with them, however, is entirely up to us.


You just interpret this in whatever you felt, you know what i meant..
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Posted 7/13/08

saywhaat wrote:

a belief itself? It is obvious that it is wrong, not because someone divine said so, but simply because you are taking a life again someones will, and that taking life agains peoples will, does not do any god to our survival, not only does it create distress among comon folk, but its against the law.. (laws that we worked hard on, so that it could benefit out society)



Have you ever read “The Selfish Gene,” by Richard Dawkins? There’s a quote that I bounce around here on Crunchy Roll whenever this type of topic comes about. I even put it on my profile, because I’m so very fond of it.

“We are survival machines-robot vehicle blindly programmed to preserve the selfish molecules known to us as genes.”

The fact is that without some kind of religious belief…Richard is right. We’re no better or worse than plants. Morality is a mere invention, a religious one. We can pretend that right and wrong exist, but it’s just an imaginary concept without religion…in which case, it’s a religious concept.

Secularly, if we’re honest, there is no right or wrong. There’s only necessity. We say murder is wrong because it’s necessary to preserve our lives. Does this give our life value? No, not in the least bit, it simply means there’s the illusion of value. It’s the acceptance of a happy lie to escape a brutal reality. It’s religious. Murder is wrong-that’s an opinion and a belief. I’d argue that murder is actually acceptable under certain circumstances.


And what? Jesus hanged on a cross has evidence? Dont give me that crap, you cant just go around making stuff up, without something to show me.. historically accepted thing? give me a break man.. You just pulled that right out of your ass..


Roman documentations. Galilean documentations. The Gnostic Texts. The Apocryphal Texts. There was even a case in Japan in which Kiyomaro Takeuchi discovered a document which evidence what I said.

Let’s look at this: The Romans hated the Galileans. As a matter of a fact, they slaughtered them. Yet, they both agree that a man named Jesus walked, called himself God, and was crucified. The Romans say he was a nut-case. The Galileans say that he was a heretic. Both agree that he was a bad person. Both also agree that he believe himself divine and that he gave his life for his followers.

The Apocryphal texts are mythological stories. They don’t hold much ground in a historical debate, but they’re not entirely useless.

The Gnostic texts were documents that said “Jesus was a great dude, but not God on earth, he did great things-died for us, ext-but he was just a man.”

The question that remains isn’t “did Jesus exist,” and “Did he die for us,” but rather, “was he god.”

I’ve cited sources, the rest is up to you.


You just interpret this in whatever you felt, you know what i meant


What you meant wasn’t at all at question.



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