Feedback: Standalone Subtitles (?)
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Posted 7/2/11 , edited 7/2/11
Subtitles so far have been a problem here since many people wants to customize them, in the other hand one of the biggest issues about Crunchyroll are subtitles being used as other group releases. So What if the subtitles were standalone?

With standalone subtitles i mean subtitles included within flash video player and not within the .mkv video as soft subtitles. If the subtitles were on the video player it could be possible to change colors, change size, font type and even would work in case that you guys add multiple languages [subs] in a future, i mean switching from [english/spanish/etc] and so, only the timing would need be correct.

Also with this way half of the issues of Crunchyroll simulcasts being ripped would be halted and at the end 2 of the biggest issues here would be fixed. Of course this might only apply to SD/480p/720p web view and not to Roku/Boxee/Consoles since i don't know how those works and the mobile [iphone/android] videos are hard subs if i'm not wrong.

P.S: With the Video Player i mean the ones online just like this one
http://www.crunchyroll.com/deadman-wonderland/episode-12-salvation-the-grateful-dead-573464

Regards,
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Posted 7/3/11
Um... what are you talking about?

First of all, your description of "stand alone subtitles" is, in itself, a form of SOFT SUBTITLES. Even if CR did implement these things, the srt file used for the subtitles and the various languages embedded within can just as easily be ripped as the current style of srt subtitles used.

Second, the videos streamed ARE NOT MKV files. Please don't mix up your file formats. An MKV is a container file type used for storing encapsulated videos WITH srt files. These are NOT used for streaming purposes. The file format used on CR is a type of SWF (shockwave flash) format to make streaming much easier and faster. The video, itself, plays independently of a separately loaded srt file for subtitles.

Lastly, from what I know, those groups that you know that rip off CRs subtitles do something much more practical than figuring out how to rip the srt files from the site... they just copy what they see on to a notepad.

Even if you DO find a way to make it difficult to rip the subtitles, nothing's stopping you from just copying what you see with your eyes and re-typing it down to a notepad. The way these "rip-off" teams work is by throwing the translation part of the subbing process out the window. Those guys probably don't even have a single person on their team that speaks Japanese, for all I care. They just copy and paste whatever they see on to an srt file and sync it with a ripped video from somewhere else.


And just for my two cents worth, I see no added gain in customizing subtitles. Why? Can't stand white letters? I can understand if you'd like to change the font size, but... really, colors? Man, am I missing something?
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Posted 7/3/11 , edited 7/3/11

edsamac wrote:

Um... what are you talking about?

1. First of all, your description of "stand alone subtitles" is, in itself, a form of SOFT SUBTITLES. Even if CR did implement these things, the srt file used for the subtitles and the various languages embedded within can just as easily be ripped as the current style of srt subtitles used.

2. Second, the videos streamed ARE NOT MKV files. Please don't mix up your file formats. An MKV is a container file type used for storing encapsulated videos WITH srt files. These are NOT used for streaming purposes. The file format used on CR is a type of SWF (shockwave flash) format to make streaming much easier and faster. The video, itself, plays independently of a separately loaded srt file for subtitles.

3. Lastly, from what I know, those groups that you know that rip off CRs subtitles do something much more practical than figuring out how to rip the srt files from the site... they just copy what they see on to a notepad.

4. Even if you DO find a way to make it difficult to rip the subtitles, nothing's stopping you from just copying what you see with your eyes and re-typing it down to a notepad. The way these "rip-off" teams work is by throwing the translation part of the subbing process out the window. Those guys probably don't even have a single person on their team that speaks Japanese, for all I care. They just copy and paste whatever they see on to an srt file and sync it with a ripped video from somewhere else.


5. And just for my two cents worth, I see no added gain in customizing subtitles. Why? Can't stand white letters? I can understand if you'd like to change the font size, but... really, colors? Man, am I missing something?


1. I know

2. Didn't know that, though they were .mkv already D:

3. Actually no. Those groups just use the Horriblesub rip which contain the soft subtitles already inside the .mkv, so no need for being copy and pasting. They just check the timing and use a high bitrate [tv version].

4. My point here wasn't actually "hide the subtitles or die trying". Something that's affecting Crunchyroll releases are the fact that now HorribleSub rip the simulcast with the soft subtitles almost at the very first 3 minutes as soon as they began. My point here was a way for changing the whole format, adding some kind of encryption only readable by the flash player, embedding them as a XML with a different structure and the case would be closed.

5. Just said font color as a common basis of people request. Whatsoever if the subtitles are sticked to the flashplayer it might be even possible to change the outline and many more stuff. I just mentioned this as something else that could be done but this isn't a must.

Actually the sole intention of this post was to work in a way to hide the soft subtitles or making them in a format unusable to HorribleSubs and the many common rippers that rip and distribute the soft subtitles of the simulcasts. In the past i wasn't worried and that was a dead issue since they often took hours for it but now for example, while i was watching The World God Only Knows II last episode i think i wasn't even on the half while some friends of mine were watching it already. [Yeah i let my premium membership expire as soon as gosick ended]

You also got a point, if there isn't a way for rip the soft subtitles...: "they will just copy what they see on to a notepad".
^ But that will delay the simulcast ripoff releases for at least 2 hours - 4 hours - 6 hours, much better than 3 minutes - 5 minutes.

*nods* thanks for your reply :3

Regards,
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Posted 7/4/11
Well, the best "anti-theft" system to prevent ripping of soft subs is to make it a hard-sub. There are some disadvantages to this - namely the video has a fixed language, and users don't have a choice to turn of closed captioning (I, personally, turn off the subs for example). In addition, having a video version for each individual language available to that release takes up a considerable amount of space. Soft subs, therefore, have more flexibility - albeit limited to the moment to simply language changing and toggling on/off.

In fact, the original soft subtitle format of the site was born from the time CR was preparing to go legal. At the time, a "user-based subtitle submission feature" was being promoted, allowing users to edit subtitle submissions for uploaded videos with no subtitles. It was a little hard to manage on the moderator end, so the idea was abandoned - but the soft sub system was kept and eventually transitioned into the current legal CR system.

In the end, CR does not really have any obligation to pursue people who rip their subs. The major brunt of copyright restrictions focuses on video content rather than translational content, so unless the translators who submitted the translations actually ask CR to pursue the perpetrators of the translation ripping, then there's no need for CR to do anything about it. In a sense, it would be a wasted effort, when in fact the beef of the service is really in the videos. CR has already covered this through user-labeled watermarking and buffer-capacity limitation on running streams.
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 7/4/11

edsamac wrote:
In a sense, it would be a wasted effort, when in fact the beef of the service is really in the videos. CR has already covered this through user-labeled watermarking and buffer-capacity limitation on running streams.

Unfortunately, unless something has changed in the past couple of months, it is far too easy to download the video from Crunchyroll with nary a sign of the "Exclusive stream for..." or CR bug watermarks. Apparently even the bug is done with an overlay instead of being added during the encode.

If it were possible to insert a single frame on the fly as an integral part of the stream, CR could tag each video with a username that would be invisible in normal viewing, that would then allow them to identify and cancel the accounts being used. Of course, this was really only be effective if the account in question was a premium account, as it would be too easy with a free account to simply create another, and obtain it via a different IP address if that was blocked.

78167 cr points
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Posted 7/4/11

TheAncientOne wrote:

Unfortunately, unless something has changed in the past couple of months, it is far too easy to download the video from Crunchyroll with nary a sign of the "Exclusive stream for..." or CR bug watermarks. Apparently even the bug is done with an overlay instead of being added during the encode.

If it were possible to insert a single frame on the fly as an integral part of the stream, CR could tag each video with a username that would be invisible in normal viewing, that would then allow them to identify and cancel the accounts being used. Of course, this was really only be effective if the account in question was a premium account, as it would be too easy with a free account to simply create another, and obtain it via a different IP address if that was blocked.



True, but for all practical reasons, it'd make no sense to try and rip a video off CR. To cut the discussion from going to ways that would give ideas to those that are pirates out there, the video quality here isn't exactly the best out there. Broadcast 720p is still downsized despite the resolution format, and further remuxing the video after using it for whatever reason you'd use it for will just make things worse.

The only reason you'd want to use ripped streams off CR would be to match the simulcast times... but I won't divulge on that any further.
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