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What is faith?
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Posted 11/24/06
haha i found a funny vid of what your talking about flyinasian, but its in reverse
http://onegoodmovemedia.org/movies/0611/johnsafranvsmormons.mov
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Posted 11/24/06
Faith should be questionable.
I am tired of people avoiding arguments by trowing the Faith Card in the table. As soon as they say "because I have faith" the conversation is dead.
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Posted 11/24/06

FlyinAsian wrote:


naruto9817 wrote:


FlyinAsian wrote:

Faith in god is ignorance, turning a blind eye to reality to make ourselves feel better by saying that if I believe and do such and such I'll go to paradise. How do I know this? I use to be a christian, and I dealt with arguments against my beliefs by saying "god works in mysterious ways" LOL was I an idiot back then.



God, is a relevent term, it could mean something else to everyone. Don't you believe something, anything created the universe? If you do you believe in god.


So if I say I believe the great bang created the universe, then the big bang is god? How can an event be god?

God was created to explain things, hundreds of years ago, the catholic church said god moved the stars and planets and that the earth was flat and that the earth was the center of the universe. In modern times we know this isn't true. Eventually science will replace god as the answer to the universe, maybe not now, maybe not in the near future but it will eventually.

What I don't get is how do Christians get off telling us that if we don't believe what they believe that we'll go to hell? That's nothing more than scaring someone into believing what you believe, that's not faith, that's threatening me.


bellus-vae wrote:


lusulpher wrote:

It takes as much "faith" to believe that a Higher Power exists, as it does to believe that a Higher Power doesn't exist.

Personally if I believed their was no Higher Power keeping me in check, I'd go nuts. Psychopathically NUTS!

Stealing, raping, maiming, doping, you name it, I would try it, just to make sure I had done it once before I died. That's one of my fears, someone proves a God doesn't exist, and I know I have no reason NOT to do everything I want. I'd become the proverbial Devil.

Count your blessings, you self-righteous agnostics and atheists.



Second the motion.


Your kidding me right? ITS CALLED A CONSCIENCE. Your logic is flawed! By your logic it would mean anyone who is a non-christian would be killing and raping anyone! Humans don't kill other humans without reason because its not beneficial to man-kind! Its in our instinct. Besides, do you know how many instances of rape ant torture there are in the bible! Its ridiculous! Here I'll quote them.

Num 31:15-18. "15. And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16. Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to
commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague
among the congregation of the Lord.17. Now therefore kill every male among the
little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.18. But all
the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for
yourselves."

Korea's northern alliance wouldn't stoop this low! These murdering, raping
Israelites decided, by the wonderfully wise and divine decree of Jehovah through
Moses, that these unused seimen recepticals (also known as virgins to them),
should not only undergo the tragic loss of their entire race, but have to marry their
rapists afterwards. The married and/or pregnant women would get the sword and
some (the virgins), would get the penis! If any army did this today, they would be
court marshalled and sentenced to die in a flash!

If you Christians actually READ your bible then you would know that its just a bunch of bull honky.

Oh yeah guess what? before the bible there were several epics that sounded errily similar to the bible. Ever heard of the Gilgemesh (sp)? The sumerians wrote that epic, long before the bible was ever written, and guess what? The story of the flood and noahs arc appears there excepts noahs not the main guy in the story. LOL maybe, JUST maybe the bible is just a collection of stories put together by some wino.



What triggered the big bang?
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Posted 11/24/06
Yeah mauz, just like Sam Harris contends - that religion becomes a conversation stopper. Dogma is immune to the rules of rationality and logic.
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Posted 11/24/06

naruto9817 wrote:


FlyinAsian wrote:


naruto9817 wrote:


FlyinAsian wrote:

Faith in god is ignorance, turning a blind eye to reality to make ourselves feel better by saying that if I believe and do such and such I'll go to paradise. How do I know this? I use to be a christian, and I dealt with arguments against my beliefs by saying "god works in mysterious ways" LOL was I an idiot back then.



God, is a relevent term, it could mean something else to everyone. Don't you believe something, anything created the universe? If you do you believe in god.


So if I say I believe the great bang created the universe, then the big bang is god? How can an event be god?

God was created to explain things, hundreds of years ago, the catholic church said god moved the stars and planets and that the earth was flat and that the earth was the center of the universe. In modern times we know this isn't true. Eventually science will replace god as the answer to the universe, maybe not now, maybe not in the near future but it will eventually.

What I don't get is how do Christians get off telling us that if we don't believe what they believe that we'll go to hell? That's nothing more than scaring someone into believing what you believe, that's not faith, that's threatening me.


bellus-vae wrote:


lusulpher wrote:

It takes as much "faith" to believe that a Higher Power exists, as it does to believe that a Higher Power doesn't exist.

Personally if I believed their was no Higher Power keeping me in check, I'd go nuts. Psychopathically NUTS!

Stealing, raping, maiming, doping, you name it, I would try it, just to make sure I had done it once before I died. That's one of my fears, someone proves a God doesn't exist, and I know I have no reason NOT to do everything I want. I'd become the proverbial Devil.

Count your blessings, you self-righteous agnostics and atheists.



Second the motion.


Your kidding me right? ITS CALLED A CONSCIENCE. Your logic is flawed! By your logic it would mean anyone who is a non-christian would be killing and raping anyone! Humans don't kill other humans without reason because its not beneficial to man-kind! Its in our instinct. Besides, do you know how many instances of rape ant torture there are in the bible! Its ridiculous! Here I'll quote them.

Num 31:15-18. "15. And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16. Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to
commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague
among the congregation of the Lord.17. Now therefore kill every male among the
little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.18. But all
the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for
yourselves."

Korea's northern alliance wouldn't stoop this low! These murdering, raping
Israelites decided, by the wonderfully wise and divine decree of Jehovah through
Moses, that these unused seimen recepticals (also known as virgins to them),
should not only undergo the tragic loss of their entire race, but have to marry their
rapists afterwards. The married and/or pregnant women would get the sword and
some (the virgins), would get the penis! If any army did this today, they would be
court marshalled and sentenced to die in a flash!

If you Christians actually READ your bible then you would know that its just a bunch of bull honky.

Oh yeah guess what? before the bible there were several epics that sounded errily similar to the bible. Ever heard of the Gilgemesh (sp)? The sumerians wrote that epic, long before the bible was ever written, and guess what? The story of the flood and noahs arc appears there excepts noahs not the main guy in the story. LOL maybe, JUST maybe the bible is just a collection of stories put together by some wino.



What triggered the big bang?


Science will eventually answer that. What created god? If you say "he's just there" then well by golly the big bang just happened
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Posted 11/24/06

FlyinAsian wrote:
Read through this site, if you still believe in god after going there, then not a thing in the world is going to change you.
http://www.ministerturnsatheist.org


Oh please. I'm currently Agnostic, but that site is too simplistic. If anyone thinks their beliefs have "changed" after reading that site, then that means their previous belief was not that strong in the first place.
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Posted 11/24/06

FlyinAsian wrote:


naruto9817 wrote:


FlyinAsian wrote:


naruto9817 wrote:


FlyinAsian wrote:

Faith in god is ignorance, turning a blind eye to reality to make ourselves feel better by saying that if I believe and do such and such I'll go to paradise. How do I know this? I use to be a christian, and I dealt with arguments against my beliefs by saying "god works in mysterious ways" LOL was I an idiot back then.



God, is a relevent term, it could mean something else to everyone. Don't you believe something, anything created the universe? If you do you believe in god.


So if I say I believe the great bang created the universe, then the big bang is god? How can an event be god?

God was created to explain things, hundreds of years ago, the catholic church said god moved the stars and planets and that the earth was flat and that the earth was the center of the universe. In modern times we know this isn't true. Eventually science will replace god as the answer to the universe, maybe not now, maybe not in the near future but it will eventually.

What I don't get is how do Christians get off telling us that if we don't believe what they believe that we'll go to hell? That's nothing more than scaring someone into believing what you believe, that's not faith, that's threatening me.


bellus-vae wrote:


lusulpher wrote:

It takes as much "faith" to believe that a Higher Power exists, as it does to believe that a Higher Power doesn't exist.

Personally if I believed their was no Higher Power keeping me in check, I'd go nuts. Psychopathically NUTS!

Stealing, raping, maiming, doping, you name it, I would try it, just to make sure I had done it once before I died. That's one of my fears, someone proves a God doesn't exist, and I know I have no reason NOT to do everything I want. I'd become the proverbial Devil.

Count your blessings, you self-righteous agnostics and atheists.



Second the motion.


Your kidding me right? ITS CALLED A CONSCIENCE. Your logic is flawed! By your logic it would mean anyone who is a non-christian would be killing and raping anyone! Humans don't kill other humans without reason because its not beneficial to man-kind! Its in our instinct. Besides, do you know how many instances of rape ant torture there are in the bible! Its ridiculous! Here I'll quote them.

Num 31:15-18. "15. And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?
16. Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to
commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague
among the congregation of the Lord.17. Now therefore kill every male among the
little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.18. But all
the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for
yourselves."

Korea's northern alliance wouldn't stoop this low! These murdering, raping
Israelites decided, by the wonderfully wise and divine decree of Jehovah through
Moses, that these unused seimen recepticals (also known as virgins to them),
should not only undergo the tragic loss of their entire race, but have to marry their
rapists afterwards. The married and/or pregnant women would get the sword and
some (the virgins), would get the penis! If any army did this today, they would be
court marshalled and sentenced to die in a flash!

If you Christians actually READ your bible then you would know that its just a bunch of bull honky.

Oh yeah guess what? before the bible there were several epics that sounded errily similar to the bible. Ever heard of the Gilgemesh (sp)? The sumerians wrote that epic, long before the bible was ever written, and guess what? The story of the flood and noahs arc appears there excepts noahs not the main guy in the story. LOL maybe, JUST maybe the bible is just a collection of stories put together by some wino.



What triggered the big bang?


Science will eventually answer that. What created god? If you say "he's just there" then well by golly the big bang just happened


Im not saying i beleive in a god. Im bringing up both sides of the argument. God could be anything, it dosnt even have to be living. Some people think god, is someone who watches over them, some people think god, is the person who created the universe, even if they can prove the big bang happened, how can science answer, how it happened? Time travel?

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Posted 11/24/06

mauz15 wrote:


FlyinAsian wrote:
Read through this site, if you still believe in god after going there, then not a thing in the world is going to change you.
http://www.ministerturnsatheist.org


Oh please. I'm currently Agnostic, but that site is too simplistic. If anyone thinks their beliefs have "changed" after reading that site, then that means their previous belief was not that strong in the first place.


Your telling me that you read through that whole damn site in 5minutes after I posted that link? *sigh* ok I'll dig up some more links.

Oh if anyone is wondering, yeah I'm passionate about my beliefs however I will only push my beliefs on you if you push yours on me.
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Posted 11/24/06
i think mauz means that one's beliefs should always be in constant flux depending on new data, always changing and never being stagnant. One website shouldn't be enough to convince or affirm one's beliefs - even if its atheism, although atheism is by itself a lack of dogmatic faith.
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Posted 11/24/06
To naruto

I said eventually, eventually someone will be able to prove that god doesn't exist, and the universe was created either in a big bang or some other way, only time will tell. But what I do know is, is that god is a figment of your imagination.

If by some horrible twist in fate I die and stand before god in judgement, and he asks me why I didn't believe, I'll say "Why I do believe you didn't give sufficient evidence, god."
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Posted 11/24/06
I have seen that site before.
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Posted 11/24/06

FlyinAsian wrote:

To naruto

I said eventually, eventually someone will be able to prove that god doesn't exist, and the universe was created either in a big bang or some other way, only time will tell. But what I do know is, is that god is a figment of your imagination.

If by some horrible twist in fate I die and stand before god in judgement, and he asks me why I didn't believe, I'll say "Why I do believe you didn't give sufficient evidence, god."


Thank you, for your opinion. Im neutral in this argument, i do believe something created the universe, but what? You may have a good point, relying on science, but in my lifetime, and many generations to come, we still may never know the answer to the big questions.

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Posted 11/24/06

mauz15 wrote:

I have seen that site before.

If you have stumbleupon, you can use that to go to several atheist sites that argue against the belief in god.

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Posted 11/24/06
I have it. But I go through both sides of the coin. The reason I'm agnostic is because I've discovered very challenging arguments on either side. Kant, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche, Bertrand Russell, Dennis turner, Daniel Dennet, etc.

Never assume the obvious is true.
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Posted 11/24/06
I hope dan dennett gets better, i heard he was sick or something
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