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Muslims
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Posted 1/16/08 , edited 4/18/08
...in my opinion sometimes people have to learn to separate between a persons personality and his/her religion,,, it is true that religions do have a say in our behavior and way of living but it is also true that no religion or Holy Book ever accepts any type of misbehavior from any person,,
that is totally the persons will... hiding his/her reality from her/himself and people by putting religion up front,,this is the worse part,,the religion reputation gets the dirty work,,people don't really look at the big picture,,because in fact those who do wrong...and say that they are Muslims are exactly the opposite..because they are trying to corrupt the real sense of being a pure Muslim..

i do not blame Muslim haters for having such a stereo typical idea about Islam because media does its work without flaw...i only wish that they would search for truth before spitting out things they really don't understand anything about...

if u are truly interested visit these sites and then make up ur mind those people where touched by the truth they searched:


http://nur.homestead.com/1truth.html

http://www.ishipress.com/muslim.htm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=107476695340909002

Write those "flaws" that u claim...then search for the reality before being so sure...i can guarantee no one here ever read a trust worthy book or even a page about Islam..u simply say what u were told..that is so pathetic of people who claim to be educated
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Posted 1/16/08 , edited 4/18/08

marayem83 wrote:

...in my opinion sometimes people have to learn to separate between a persons personality and his/her religion,,, it is true that religions do have a say in our behavior and way of living but it is also true that no religion or Holy Book ever accepts any type of misbehavior from any person,,
that is totally the persons will... hiding his/her reality from her/himself and people by putting religion up front,,this is the worse part,,the religion reputation gets the dirty work,,people don't really look at the big picture,,because in fact those who do wrong...and say that they are Muslims are exactly the opposite..because they are trying to corrupt the real sense of being a pure Muslim..

i do not blame Muslim haters for having such a stereo typical idea about Islam because media does its work without flaw...i only wish that they would search for truth before spitting out things they really don't understand anything about...

if u are truly interested visit these sites and then make up ur mind those people where touched by the truth they searched:


http://nur.homestead.com/1truth.html

http://www.ishipress.com/muslim.htm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=107476695340909002

Write those "flaws" that u claim...then search for the reality before being so sure...i can guarantee no one here ever read a trust worthy book or even a page about Islam..u simply say what u were told..that is so pathetic of people who claim to be educated


You have to remember that the media doesn't just splurge out any old crap. It has to have evidence to back it up, it may be that they troll on the negatives a little more. As for me, I have nothing against anyone of any religion it's their choice, but the problem I have at the moment is it is actually unsafe for people who support other religions in parts of Britain now. It doesn't make me a hater (although I am partial to the hating) but it makes me a little sceptical.

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Posted 1/16/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:




They do not allow what they claim is misbehavior and the morality the religion is preaching may be wrong . So saying that they do not allow it is like saying they enforce whatever values those books contain on believers. Sorry gays it hell for you. Darn it girls your husband has the right to beat you. Do you see where I am going with this?


marayem83 wrote:

people don't really look at the big picture,,because in fact those who do wrong...and say that they are Muslims are exactly the opposite..because they are trying to corrupt the real sense of being a pure Muslim..

i do not blame Muslim haters for having such a stereo typical idea about Islam because media does its work without flaw...i only wish that they would search for truth before spitting out things they really don't understand anything about...


Orly? Lots of those people are following parts of the Quran you no doubt choose to ignore-they are just as much Muslim as you are. Even if they were not it would still prove that when people have such a large amount of faith in something it is bound to cause some of them to act irrationally. Many of us do not mind moderate religious people but as long as religion itself exists it will always lead some people to fundamentalism. So you argument that Islam is being corrupted is irrelevant as well as wrong.



I read the Quran and a lot of hadith. Are those trust worthy sources of knowledge about Islam?

>>the point where u say " Your husbands have the right to beat u" gives me full proof that u dont know nothing about those sources you say u read..it is things such as this...and many others that make u stray from what u really need to know,,
did u know that women are ten times more to be respected than men,, the holy quran and hadith are full of things that support the fact that women are the main structure of society,,islam has given the woman her rights before even women in ur country made a strike for theirs...islam has secured the basics that every woman needs in her life ,,she is to have a decent home, and decent living..women in ur soceities wish that they can lean on their men and trust them...for ur information when u say we are to be beaten by our husbands u have left out several important points before that was mentioned in the Quran,, For one, this is only in the case of women who are disobedient and not loyal to their men, who in turn are given the burden to strive daily for the welfare of their women, and a second point is this is a third step of three measures to be taken by a man for he should first warn her, then he should leave her bed,, and then comes the beating,,a third point which i really wanted to stress is that here is where the hadith comes to support the quran and explain what is meant by this beating,,the prophet describes this beating to be done by the corner of a shawl (what men wear on their heads) or by the "miswak" which is a small 4 to 5 inch stick that was used as a tooth brush,, (is tht painful??),and the meaning behind this beating is not the body pain,,but it is a gesture of mutual understanding as if to say "u have done wrong" ..a way to embarass the woman and make her feel ashamed..

whether people follow islam to the fullest or average as u say,,there is no reason whatsoever for anyone to claim that islam or any other relegion for that matter is the cause of their dirty work..

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23 / M
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Posted 1/16/08 , edited 4/18/08
that really kools
4053 cr points
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M / Yo Mommas House
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Posted 1/16/08 , edited 4/18/08
Lol anyone who is muslim dont even type on these threads gosh there is too many people who misunderstand and misquote things out of context. I tried to put it into context and they dont understand dotn waste your breath arguing. The only way to change public opinion is the mainstream media which thrives on people lieing about Islam and having people misquote the Quran without bringing an intelligent muslim (they always bring the worst of muslims on air instead) to put it into context. Thats how ignorance grows but trying to fix it on CR is pointless.
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Posted 1/16/08 , edited 4/18/08
Everyone should just practice religious tolerance and the world would be happy...
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Posted 1/16/08 , edited 4/18/08
Awww, this is soooo nice^^!!!! thankyou jasamaja^^ I'm sorry too.
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Posted 1/16/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:

Learn how to quote. Alright then why don't we take a moment and examine some verses from Quran dealing with women.
2:228And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise.-Hahahahh ladies we are a degree above you1
4:98 Except the feeble among men, and the women, and the children, who are unable to devise a plan-Too bad girls leave the planning to the adult men.
37:22 (And it is said unto the angels): Assemble those who did wrong, together with their wives and what they used to worship-Women go to hell with their husbands no matter how they behaved. Sorry girls
4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.-Allah made men better then women.
65:4 And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not-Allah instructs how to divorce pre-pubescent wives. This is sick even you loli lovers only watch them
70:30 Save with their wives and those whom their right hands possess, for thus they are not blameworthy;-You must be chaste except with wives and slave girls

Yes I can see the "respect" women receive in Islam.


You should really do what you said in your first sentence "Learn How to Quote". You can't just read one line, and start criticizing it. Did you even bother to read some lines before and after the verses you quoted? What lines in red is what you wrote in your post and I'm replying to each one:

2:228And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise

Ok, This was a lil choppy and poorly quoted. Not the exact verse. In Islam, we believe that the husband IS the head of the household. It's HIS job to make money to support his family. Now, the wife can still have a job if she wants to. Even in economic positions the man's rights are a greater than the woman's.

4:98 Except the feeble among men, and the women, and the children, who are unable to devise a plan-Too bad girls leave the planning to the adult men.

Ok, In the verse RIGHT before this one, it talks about when the angel comes to take the soul of someone who has done a lot of sin on earth, the person will say that they were too "weak and oppressed" to refrain from doing bad things, just making up an excuse. it says they will go to hell, except for... (this is where you verse comes in). Except for those who were really too weak to direct their own way. For example people who have mentally retarded.

37:22 (And it is said unto the angels): Assemble those who did wrong, together with their wives and what they used to worship-Women go to hell with their husbands no matter how they behaved.

The verse before talks about how the people who've sinned will be called on the day of judgement. You must've copied and pasted because this isn't what it says at all. This is what 37:22 really says: " 'Bring ye up', It shall be said "he wrongdoers and their wives, and the things they worshipped."
Only if their wives are also wrongdoers. In Arabic "wrongdoers" is masculine, thats why they are mentioned separetly ( wrongdoers AND their wives).

4:34 isnt even stated correctly. That isnt what it says. I'll post the correct verse in another post because this one is too long already.

65:4 And for such of your women as despair of menstruation, if ye doubt, their period (of waiting) shall be three months, along with those who have it not-Allah instructs how to divorce pre-pubescent wives. This is sick even you loli lovers only watch them

Not sick, just different culturally. The verse, which was poorly copied again, talks about after a divorce, a man and women should wait 3 months so they would know of any children and if she got pregnant.

70:30

Yes, it states you must be chaste except with your wife and NOT slaves girls. The verse uses the term "captives" not slaves. Back then men married captives of war to provide protection. Nowadays, people aren't chaste with anyone.


I apologize for writing such a LONG post, because I hate reading long posts myself. But that just needed to be cleared up.

Magnus, if you have any other questions, I'll be happy to answer. But PLEASE, quote the correct and WHOLE verse next time. It confuses a lot of people and doesn't make sense. And if you have something else to say about what I wrote, can we take it a verse at a time because it an eye sore to read all of this.

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Posted 1/16/08 , edited 4/18/08

magnus102 wrote:
4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.-Allah made men better then women.


4:34

"Husbands are the protectors and maintainers of their wives because God has give the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Theirfore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what God would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them first, next refuse to share their beds, and last beat them lightly; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means of annoyance for God is Most High Great ( above you all)."


The part about lightly beating them is highly debated and misconceived by many. Many Muslim scholars advise against this only if the situation is extreme. A lot of people take bits of the Quran to justify them beating their wifes. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said only a light tap, avoiding her face, with a toothbrush, for example. The last part says that if talking to her and all that stuff fails, then leave the rest up to God. He is most high and all knowing.

Now some people see "light tap" and go off. Saying the Quran says the husband can beat the wife if he wants to. This isn't true at all.

Ok, Im done for tonight. Sorry for "preaching" as some of you like to call it.
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Posted 1/16/08 , edited 4/18/08
I'm not trying to dance around anything, you misunderstood the Quran and I simply corrected your mistakes.
I'm sorry you feel that it's pointless, I really am.

And no, I don't see anything wrong with the man being the head of the household, providing for his family..... do you?
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Posted 1/16/08 , edited 4/18/08

Ms_Maryam wrote:


magnus102 wrote:
4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.-Allah made men better then women.


4:34

"Husbands are the protectors and maintainers of their wives because God has give the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Theirfore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what God would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them first, next refuse to share their beds, and last beat them lightly; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means of annoyance for God is Most High Great ( above you all)."


The part about lightly beating them is highly debated and misconceived by many. Many Muslim scholars advise against this only if the situation is extreme. A lot of people take bits of the Quran to justify them beating their wifes. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said only a light tap, avoiding her face, with a toothbrush, for example. The last part says that if talking to her and all that stuff fails, then leave the rest up to God. He is most high and all knowing.

Now some people see "light tap" and go off. Saying the Quran says the husband can beat the wife if he wants to. This isn't true at all.

Ok, Im done for tonight. Sorry for "preaching" as some of you like to call it.


Well I answered this question to before to another and this is what I mean man people are not reading the correct context but this is what I got out of that meaning because I dont believe you are suppose to hit them in anyway. I saved this because I knew 4:34 would be bought up again and I dont want to keep explaining the same thing over


Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because God has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what God would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For God is Most High, great (above you all). 4:34

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don’t know if the Quranic translation you used had commentary for the word the Quran used for beat in Arabic. But let’s look at a little Arabic to understand what the Quran is really saying. The word translated to mean beat is the Arabic word edrobhohunna. That word does not mean beat in a violent way to incur physical damage. The Arabic word that means beat to incur physical damage is hatumhoo. Go get a good Arabic dictionary or consult any Arabic speaking person and they will tell you the difference. The Quran did not use the word hatumhoo it used edrobhohunna, which is a word meaning more an action to show displeasure without causing physical harm. It is striking such that even a baby won’t be harmed. It is hard to translate because in English when we use the word strike it implies harm but in Arabic this word does not imply physical damage or harm. Most translators in an attempt to get close to the meaning in Arabic translate edrobhohunna as strike lightly.

Some translators have even translated this word as a tongue lashing. But it does not mean the physical brutalization and beat down of women which does not agree with the spirit of the Quran.

The Prophet (saaw) also said the following:

"O People! It is true that you have certain rights with regards to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers."

The Prophet (saaw) never beat any of his wives and he condemned any Muslim who beat their wives as in the following Hadiths:

Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: I went to the Messenger of Allah (saws) and asked him: What do you say about our wives? He replied: Give them food that you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.

"It was reported to the Prophet (saws) that some of his Companions beat their wives, whereupon he said, 'Certainly those are not the best among you’.” (as reported by Ahmad, Abu Daoud, and al-Nisai. Ibn Hibban and Al-Hakim classify it as sound, as narrated by Iyas ibn 'Abdullah ibn Abu Dhiab).

Like I said we can continue putting things into context but people will ignore and they continue to believe the media's or other people misquoting without even directly asking a muslim who knows arabic themselves and stay ignorant. It is not worth it bro.
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77 / M / mAh WorLd
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Posted 1/16/08 , edited 4/18/08
Im a Muslim and I got your point there Jasamaja and I accept your apology. And also for a record I dont consider those Terrorist Islam! I think what they are doing is not Jihad. its plain killing of innocent people. and pls Dont call Quran Evil again,coz its like calling your mom a bitch or something like that.
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26 / M / Johor, Malaysia
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Posted 1/17/08 , edited 4/18/08
tch...
8978 cr points
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F / U A E (United Ara...
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Posted 1/17/08 , edited 4/18/08
Thank you Ms_maryam,,id left yesterday before seeing the reply that was written...it is just like you said,,it is obvious that this person chooses to take what they want and leave the rest out..believe me there is no point trying to convince a person who prefers to be blind,,to lure the mind to limited thinking,,i pity such people,,,
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