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If God exists.
Posted 7/17/11












God is Perfection, isn't he? God can make the earth disappear if he wanted, can't he?
if so, then he can quite easily pass Moral judgment. like -
it's not such a big deal compared to all the other stuff he can do.

I don't know if wrong or right exist or don't exist. but don't Morals help people?
..or maybe i 'm wrong.

Like i said, I Don't Understand. I think God is 'someone' you can feel in your Heart.
When i hurt humans, i feel like crying. when they hurt me, i feel like crying.
But when everybody is nice to each other, i 'm very happy. Unfortunately That rarely happens.
If it wasn't for my Belief: I would most likely be a horrible Demented Killer.

Life && People would make me that way.
I want to believe in God. I don't want to be a horrible person.

It sounds stupid..and Childish.
But That's me.

I Apologize. I am not very smart. my replies must be confusing and idiotic.



Posted 7/17/11

Honeythief wrote:


God is Perfection, isn't he? God can make the earth disappear if he wanted, can't he?
if so, then he can quite easily pass Moral judgment. like -
it's not such a big deal compared to all the other stuff he can do.

I don't know if wrong or right exist or don't exist. but don't Morals help people?
..or maybe i 'm wrong.

Like i said, I Don't Understand. I think God is 'someone' you can feel in your Heart.
When i hurt humans, i feel like crying. when they hurt me, i feel like crying.
But when everybody is nice to each other, i 'm very happy. Unfortunately That rarely happens.
If it wasn't for my Belief: I would most likely be a horrible Demented Killer.

Life && People would make me that way.
I want to believe in God. I don't want to be a horrible person.

It sounds stupid..and Childish.
But That's me.

I Apologize. I am not very smart. my replies must be confusing and idiotic.
A real serial killer derives satisfaction and enjoyment from the act of killing others and sees them as mere objects/means/tools, while someone who accidentally hurt someone else would feel guilty for the act which caused the said pain. You're too stupid to be a killer, let along enjoy killing for yourself. While there are those who had killed simply due to their blind obedience towards a deity, you OTOH didn't need a God to feel the pain of others. Instead you've got something more practical: the mirror neurons.

Now there is another kind of mirror neuron, which is involved in something quite different. And that is, there are mirror neurons, just as there are mirror neurons for action, there are mirror neurons for touch. In other words, if somebody touches me, my hand, neuron in the somatosensory cortex in the sensory region of the brain fires. But the same neuron, in some cases will fire when I simply watch another person being touched. So, it's empathizing the other person being touched.

So, most of them will fire when I'm touched in different locations. Different neurons for different locations. But a subset of them will fire even when I watch somebody else being touched in the same location. So, here again you have neurons which are enrolled in empathy. Now, the question then arises: If I simply watch another person being touched, why do I not get confused and literally feel that touch sensation merely by watching somebody being touched? I mean, I empathize with that person but I don't literally feel the touch. Well, that's because you've got receptors in your skin, touch and pain receptors, going back into your brain and saying "Don't worry, you're not being touched. So, empathize, by all means, with the other person, but do not actually experience the touch otherwise you'll get confused and muddled."

Okay, so there is a feedback signal that vetos the signal of the mirror neuron preventing you from consciously experiencing that touch. But if you remove the arm, you simply anesthetize my arm, so you put an injection into my arm, anesthetize the brachial plexus, so the arm is numb, and there is no sensations coming in, if I now watch you being touched, I literally feel it in my hand. In other words, you have dissolved the barrier between you and other human beings. So, I call them Gandhi neurons, or empathy neurons.

And this is not in some abstract metaphorical sense, all that's separating you from him, from the other person, is your skin. Remove the skin, you experience that person's touch in your mind. You've dissolved the barrier between you and other human beings. And this, of course is the basis of much of Eastern philosophy, And that is there is no real independent self, aloof from other human beings, inspecting the world, inspecting other people. You are in fact, connected not just via Facebook, and Internet, you're actually quite literally connected by your neurons. And there is whole chains of neurons around this room, talking to each other. And there is no real distinctiveness of your consciousness from somebody else's consciousness.

And this is not mumbo-jumbo philosophy. It emerges from our understanding of basic neuroscience. So, you have a patient with a phantom limb. If the arm has been removed and you have a phantom, and you watch somebody else being touched, you feel it in your phantom. Now the astonishing thing is, if you have pain in your phantom limb, you squeeze the other person's hand, massage the other person's hand, that relieves the pain in your phantom hand, almost as though the neuron were obtaining relief from merely watching somebody else being massaged.(citation)
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Posted 7/21/11

DerfelCadarn wrote:
Suppose that there is a god or deities, why should we act in accordance with his/their dictates? Suppose he is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent (even though omniscience and omnipotence are mutually exclusive, but for the sake of argument), how can he make binding moral claims? He may be able to alter the fabric of the universe, know everything or, indeed, love us all greatly, how do these attributes empower him to pass moral judgement? I see no reason why we should act in accordance with any set of mores even if god exists.

I thought the three Omni-s were omniscience, omnipotence, & omnipresent, never heard the omnibenevolent- which god is that?
As to the empowerment to pass moral judgement, that would come under omniscience: all knowing; infinite knowledge. The only way one could question the judgement or argue against such a superior being would be to have omniscience or access to the same infinite knowledge.
Sorry, I not willing to believe any human currently has that ability, so I sure won't be pointing an accusatory finger at the almighty no matter how I might feel about the morals & judgements he decrees.
I guess it would make sense to stay on the side of "doesn't exist" if a person has such conflict with that 'judgement', 'rules' & 'law' thing.
Might I please ask for an example of these mores with which you might not want to be in accordance & your reason why?
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Posted 7/23/11

farmbird wrote:


DerfelCadarn wrote:
Suppose that there is a god or deities, why should we act in accordance with his/their dictates? Suppose he is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent (even though omniscience and omnipotence are mutually exclusive, but for the sake of argument), how can he make binding moral claims? He may be able to alter the fabric of the universe, know everything or, indeed, love us all greatly, how do these attributes empower him to pass moral judgement? I see no reason why we should act in accordance with any set of mores even if god exists.

I thought the three Omni-s were omniscience, omnipotence, & omnipresent, never heard the omnibenevolent- which god is that?
As to the empowerment to pass moral judgement, that would come under omniscience: all knowing; infinite knowledge. The only way one could question the judgement or argue against such a superior being would be to have omniscience or access to the same infinite knowledge.
Sorry, I not willing to believe any human currently has that ability, so I sure won't be pointing an accusatory finger at the almighty no matter how I might feel about the morals & judgements he decrees.
I guess it would make sense to stay on the side of "doesn't exist" if a person has such conflict with that 'judgement', 'rules' & 'law' thing.
Might I please ask for an example of these mores with which you might not want to be in accordance & your reason why?


One question if you are not willing to intertain the idea of a human with such abilities how can you grant it to something that you have never seen nor have any fiscal evidence for? It is a pain to type all this out with a PS3 joystick so I am keeping it short
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Posted 7/24/11

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


farmbird wrote:



Sorry, I not willing to believe any human currently has that ability, so I sure won't be pointing an accusatory finger at the almighty no matter how I might feel about the morals & judgements he decrees.
I guess it would make sense to stay on the side of "doesn't exist" if a person has such conflict with that 'judgement', 'rules' & 'law' thing.
Might I please ask for an example of these mores with which you might not want to be in accordance & your reason why?


One question if you are not willing to intertain the idea of a human with such abilities how can you grant it to something that you have never seen nor have any fiscal evidence for? It is a pain to type all this out with a PS3 joystick so I am keeping it short


Fair question!

Thanks for calling me on this- 'cause it's evident I didn't phrase my comment well. --"not willing to believe" probably should be expressed as "I've yet to see/hear a reason to believe" - as an addition to that ability not being currently recognizable in anyone . These statements intentionally do not exclude potential future proof for such a person, ( --there is the Biblical account given of Jesus of Nazareth as a person with this ability).

Tho I'm not wiling, at this time, to give up believing in my supreme being creator, I acknowledge, by saying I believe in the presence of one who is omniscient, omnipotent, & omnipresent means I have no authority (in my current mindset) to dictate what said supreme being has, -is, -& will do. Reading & being a part of these discussions have given me an opportunity to better understand & evaluate my own beliefs, adjusting, editing, or outright changing them as I become aware, educated, & at times, enlightened!

Okay, I'll allow my belief system limits me as I give limitless ability & potential to my God, & I'm okay with that for now, because it takes many of the weighty responsibilities & decisions of life off my lazy mind (confession time!). Lazy mind, yes I admit it, but I still work at keeping it open.
Posted 7/24/11 , edited 7/24/11

farmbird wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


farmbird wrote:



Sorry, I not willing to believe any human currently has that ability, so I sure won't be pointing an accusatory finger at the almighty no matter how I might feel about the morals & judgements he decrees.
I guess it would make sense to stay on the side of "doesn't exist" if a person has such conflict with that 'judgement', 'rules' & 'law' thing.
Might I please ask for an example of these mores with which you might not want to be in accordance & your reason why?


One question if you are not willing to intertain the idea of a human with such abilities how can you grant it to something that you have never seen nor have any fiscal evidence for? It is a pain to type all this out with a PS3 joystick so I am keeping it short


Fair question!

Thanks for calling me on this- 'cause it's evident I didn't phrase my comment well. --"not willing to believe" probably should be expressed as "I've yet to see/hear a reason to believe" - as an addition to that ability not being currently recognizable in anyone . These statements intentionally do not exclude potential future proof for such a person, ( --there is the Biblical account given of Jesus of Nazareth as a person with this ability).

Tho I'm not wiling, at this time, to give up believing in my supreme being creator, I acknowledge, by saying I believe in the presence of one who is omniscient, omnipotent, & omnipresent means I have no authority (in my current mindset) to dictate what said supreme being has, -is, -& will do. Reading & being a part of these discussions have given me an opportunity to better understand & evaluate my own beliefs, adjusting, editing, or outright changing them as I become aware, educated, & at times, enlightened!

Okay, I'll allow my belief system limits me as I give limitless ability & potential to my God, & I'm okay with that for now, because it takes many of the weighty responsibilities & decisions of life off my lazy mind (confession time!). Lazy mind, yes I admit it, but I still work at keeping it open.


God is an idea just the same as that of all other gods. None of them were proven or can ever be proven. It is often argued that since they can't be disproved, they might yet exist. No, without evidence supporting any claim about the existence of gods, they do not exist, physically. What we have is a simple morality of mind control to keep people's inner desires in check. Sigmund Freud even felt that our impulses must be kept in line, deeming the human race a failure, and becoming a misanthrope before his death. So right was he to condemn a broken species not intelligent enough to be reasonable in the midst of bestial wants.

It is a trick to say that God hides himself from man. No, man hid God from man, and he can't ever be found. All you have is a leadership born from someone's thinking. A book with guidelines so often ignored, and punished with torture and death for many centuries. Gods are imaginary and interesting, but existent? Impossible.
Posted 7/27/11

DomFortress wrote:


Honeythief wrote:


God is Perfection, isn't he? God can make the earth disappear if he wanted, can't he?
if so, then he can quite easily pass Moral judgment. like -
it's not such a big deal compared to all the other stuff he can do.

I don't know if wrong or right exist or don't exist. but don't Morals help people?
..or maybe i 'm wrong.

Like i said, I Don't Understand. I think God is 'someone' you can feel in your Heart.
When i hurt humans, i feel like crying. when they hurt me, i feel like crying.
But when everybody is nice to each other, i 'm very happy. Unfortunately That rarely happens.
If it wasn't for my Belief: I would most likely be a horrible Demented Killer.

Life && People would make me that way.
I want to believe in God. I don't want to be a horrible person.

It sounds stupid..and Childish.
But That's me.

I Apologize. I am not very smart. my replies must be confusing and idiotic.
A real serial killer derives satisfaction and enjoyment from the act of killing others and sees them as mere objects/means/tools, while someone who accidentally hurt someone else would feel guilty for the act which caused the said pain. You're too stupid to be a killer, let along enjoy killing for yourself. While there are those who had killed simply due to their blind obedience towards a deity, you OTOH didn't need a God to feel the pain of others. Instead you've got something more practical: the mirror neurons.

Now there is another kind of mirror neuron, which is involved in something quite different. And that is, there are mirror neurons, just as there are mirror neurons for action, there are mirror neurons for touch. In other words, if somebody touches me, my hand, neuron in the somatosensory cortex in the sensory region of the brain fires. But the same neuron, in some cases will fire when I simply watch another person being touched. So, it's empathizing the other person being touched.

So, most of them will fire when I'm touched in different locations. Different neurons for different locations. But a subset of them will fire even when I watch somebody else being touched in the same location. So, here again you have neurons which are enrolled in empathy. Now, the question then arises: If I simply watch another person being touched, why do I not get confused and literally feel that touch sensation merely by watching somebody being touched? I mean, I empathize with that person but I don't literally feel the touch. Well, that's because you've got receptors in your skin, touch and pain receptors, going back into your brain and saying "Don't worry, you're not being touched. So, empathize, by all means, with the other person, but do not actually experience the touch otherwise you'll get confused and muddled."

Okay, so there is a feedback signal that vetos the signal of the mirror neuron preventing you from consciously experiencing that touch. But if you remove the arm, you simply anesthetize my arm, so you put an injection into my arm, anesthetize the brachial plexus, so the arm is numb, and there is no sensations coming in, if I now watch you being touched, I literally feel it in my hand. In other words, you have dissolved the barrier between you and other human beings. So, I call them Gandhi neurons, or empathy neurons.

And this is not in some abstract metaphorical sense, all that's separating you from him, from the other person, is your skin. Remove the skin, you experience that person's touch in your mind. You've dissolved the barrier between you and other human beings. And this, of course is the basis of much of Eastern philosophy, And that is there is no real independent self, aloof from other human beings, inspecting the world, inspecting other people. You are in fact, connected not just via Facebook, and Internet, you're actually quite literally connected by your neurons. And there is whole chains of neurons around this room, talking to each other. And there is no real distinctiveness of your consciousness from somebody else's consciousness.

And this is not mumbo-jumbo philosophy. It emerges from our understanding of basic neuroscience. So, you have a patient with a phantom limb. If the arm has been removed and you have a phantom, and you watch somebody else being touched, you feel it in your phantom. Now the astonishing thing is, if you have pain in your phantom limb, you squeeze the other person's hand, massage the other person's hand, that relieves the pain in your phantom hand, almost as though the neuron were obtaining relief from merely watching somebody else being massaged.(citation)


Oh? Oh, and is that right? I doubt that you can Reaaally decode my intelligence. Or maybe you can.

Either way. really doesn't matter to me what you think, no offense.
I probably am too stupid for it..or not.
Who knows.

I do need God to feel the pain of others && blah, blah, blah.mirror neurons did play a part in my "understanding' of human emotions;complicates;etc. BUT God played a much more...bigger part. It's such a pain to explain\
Ha. Besides, you wouldn't understand, Mister.

5 out of 6 doctors agree that I am actually insane. So,
maybe it's my overactive imagination.

Neurons realllly are interesting though, aren't they.
(I knew all that 'handy' information you posted.)







Posted 7/27/11

Honeythief wrote:



Oh? Oh, and is that right? I doubt that you can Reaaally decode my intelligence. Or maybe you can.

Either way. really doesn't matter to me what you think, no offense.
I probably am too stupid for it..or not.
Who knows.

I do need God to feel the pain of others && blah, blah, blah.mirror neurons did play a part in my "understanding' of human emotions;complicates;etc. BUT God played a much more...bigger part. It's such a pain to explain\
Ha. Besides, you wouldn't understand, Mister.


5 out of 6 doctors agree that I am actually insane. So,
maybe it's my overactive imagination.

Neurons realllly are interesting though, aren't they.
(I knew all that 'handy' information you posted.)
There's nothing special about your God complex, when you just wanted to be that much uniquer than the rest.
Posted 7/27/11

DomFortress wrote:


Honeythief wrote:



Oh? Oh, and is that right? I doubt that you can Reaaally decode my intelligence. Or maybe you can.

Either way. really doesn't matter to me what you think, no offense.
I probably am too stupid for it..or not.
Who knows.

I do need God to feel the pain of others && blah, blah, blah.mirror neurons did play a part in my "understanding' of human emotions;complicates;etc. BUT God played a much more...bigger part. It's such a pain to explain\
Ha. Besides, you wouldn't understand, Mister.


5 out of 6 doctors agree that I am actually insane. So,
maybe it's my overactive imagination.

Neurons realllly are interesting though, aren't they.
(I knew all that 'handy' information you posted.)
There's nothing special about your God complex, when you just wanted to be that much uniquer than the rest.


But i don't want to be uniquer then the rest. and It's not a God complex.
Posted 7/28/11 , edited 7/28/11

Honeythief wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Honeythief wrote:



Oh? Oh, and is that right? I doubt that you can Reaaally decode my intelligence. Or maybe you can.

Either way. really doesn't matter to me what you think, no offense.
I probably am too stupid for it..or not.
Who knows.

I do need God to feel the pain of others && blah, blah, blah.mirror neurons did play a part in my "understanding' of human emotions;complicates;etc. BUT God played a much more...bigger part. It's such a pain to explain\
Ha. Besides, you wouldn't understand, Mister.


5 out of 6 doctors agree that I am actually insane. So,
maybe it's my overactive imagination.

Neurons realllly are interesting though, aren't they.
(I knew all that 'handy' information you posted.)
There's nothing special about your God complex, when you just wanted to be that much uniquer than the rest.


But i don't want to be uniquer then the rest. and It's not a God complex.
But then how did you came to believe in God? When you didn't even heard of Him in the first place, you were told by others about God. Furthermore, since you held God in such high regards, wouldn't that make yourself that much uniquer than say someone like me? That's your God complex right there, it's the source of your grandiosity based on your sense of entitlement.
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Posted 7/28/11
either he's there or not, what i conclude is that im quite amazed how people can stimulate their thinking to believe that god exists, thus they do good stuffs =D

it might be ridiculous (or, it is) to believe something that is not proven to be exist, but that's people's power of believing. and, nature.

wait, this raised kind of a question, if it is 'human nature' to feel compassion, integrity and stuff, because they think of doing good things, isn't it raised because of other people's need to have 'good stuff'? so, it's kind of not 'natural', because outside people are influencing you to do good stuff, but you have this 'reaction' to get to do something that is beneficial to other people....?
^irrelevant to the topic, though.
Posted 7/28/11 , edited 7/28/11

DomFortress wrote:


Honeythief wrote:


DomFortress wrote:


Honeythief wrote:



Oh? Oh, and is that right? I doubt that you can Reaaally decode my intelligence. Or maybe you can.

Either way. really doesn't matter to me what you think, no offense.
I probably am too stupid for it..or not.
Who knows.

I do need God to feel the pain of others && blah, blah, blah.mirror neurons did play a part in my "understanding' of human emotions;complicates;etc. BUT God played a much more...bigger part. It's such a pain to explain\
Ha. Besides, you wouldn't understand, Mister.


5 out of 6 doctors agree that I am actually insane. So,
maybe it's my overactive imagination.

Neurons realllly are interesting though, aren't they.
(I knew all that 'handy' information you posted.)
There's nothing special about your God complex, when you just wanted to be that much uniquer than the rest.


But i don't want to be uniquer then the rest. and It's not a God complex.
But then how did you came to believe in God? When you didn't even heard of Him in the first place, you were told by others about God. Furthermore, since you held God in such high regards, wouldn't that make yourself that much uniquer than say someone like me? That's your God complex right there, it's the source of your grandiosity based on your sense of entitlement.


1.One person taught me about God.
2.Yes, I do regard God quite high. That does not make me more unique than you or anybody else. And i don't think i am. but, I don't understand, why would it? aren't you more unique? then someone like me, who believes in God like so many others?

grandiosity? entitlement? God complex?
Do i really seem that way to you? am i that way?
No, I'm not. I'm not more unique than anyone else. I am simply me.
a human being created like all the others, who will one day die.
interactions with others shape my heart and my mind.

I am not special.
I am not uniquer.
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Posted 7/28/11
I'm an athiest XD Anything i could possibly say will just anger people, so i'm staying outta this one lol
Posted 7/28/11

Honeythief wrote:



1.One person taught me about God.
2.Yes, I do regard God quite high. That does not make me more unique than you or anybody else. And i don't think i am. but, I don't understand, why would it? aren't you more unique? then someone like me, who believes in God like so many others?

grandiosity? entitlement? God complex?
Do i really seem that way to you? am i that way?
No, I'm not. I'm not more unique than anyone else. I am simply me.
a human being created like all the others, who will one day die.
interactions with others shape my heart and my mind.

I am not special.
I am not uniquer.
No, I had just been always the same as I did ever since I was born; not believing in a deity. So in that regards I'm not uniquer than you, who believes in someone that she knew nothing about, yet was also been told and believes that she's "insane" while she claims that she's the same like anyone else. Your subjective reality is one that's full of other people's opinions contradicting one another, and you're just a helpless victim caught in the middle of this confusion.
Posted 7/28/11 , edited 7/28/11

DomFortress wrote:


Honeythief wrote:



1.One person taught me about God.
2.Yes, I do regard God quite high. That does not make me more unique than you or anybody else. And i don't think i am. but, I don't understand, why would it? aren't you more unique? then someone like me, who believes in God like so many others?

grandiosity? entitlement? God complex?
Do i really seem that way to you? am i that way?
No, I'm not. I'm not more unique than anyone else. I am simply me.
a human being created like all the others, who will one day die.
interactions with others shape my heart and my mind.

I am not special.
I am not uniquer.
No, I had just been always the same as I did ever since I was born; not believing in a deity. So in that regards I'm not uniquer than you, who believes in someone that she knew nothing about, yet was also been told and believes that she's "insane" while she claims that she's the same like anyone else. Your subjective reality is one that's full of other people's opinions contradicting one another, and you're just a helpless victim caught in the middle of this confusion.


I do not believe I'm insane, other people do.
Victim? Yes, in a sense, i am. my reality is not one that's full of other people's opinions contradicting one another.
That is only part of my reality.
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