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R-15 Should be removed
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30 / M / NC USA
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Posted 7/17/11

papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Op are you really worried your nation's authorities are going to kick down your door and charge you with child porn?

or do you just take offense to the content yourself and are using this spurious legal argument to conceal your motives and provide you with a bigger stick with which to bully other people into agreeing with you?

Personally I find R-15 lacking in amusement value and probably won't watch it. But I find would be thought policemen like you VERY offensive. However, if you want have Crunchy Roll put a region block for the USA and allow the rest of us to watch. I have no problem with that. Your supposedly free country, isn't mine.


My argument is that it is in violation of US law so a region block on the US would certainly fix the problem unless the content is being hosted in the U.S., then they would need to set up an mirror in a country that agrees with allowing the simulated exploitation of minors. I do agree with the law and that is why I brought it up.
Posted 7/17/11 , edited 7/17/11

raetus wrote:


(a) In General.— Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly produces, distributes, receives, or possesses with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that—
(1)
(A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and
(B) is obscene; or
(2)
(A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and
(B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;


You would have to prove that the scenes are objectively obscene and/or have no merit to the literary/artstic value of the story and you would have to do so at a Federal level as it was already deemed necessary by the supreme court in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition.


Especially since it does not show any genital-genital sexual intercourse, you're never going to be able to prove anything. You also haven't seen the entire artistic work and have no idea how it plays into the story or not. All they would have to prove is that the scene shows his depravity as a writer and when he falls in love and writes these beautiful literary works, the scene acts as a foil for his final self.

In short: you have no grounds to stand on; complain away, get a lawyer, or cancel your account.

[edit] Also note that it never once says that the girl in the first scene is underage. It says she is about to break every rule and that the man is her teacher. Should could be 18 in high school or she could be in college. It also does not show any sexual intercourse (even without the blurs). It's an incredibly weak argument. If you'd like something you can argue better, check out Koe de Oshigoto! [/edit]


And this my friends, is how to put forward a good legal argument without looking like a pretentious buffoon.

EDIT: I'm not calling the OP pretentious buffoon, I'm actually referring to one other user who presented a poorly constructed legal argument . The person I just quoted in my thread however, kept it short and sweet.
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26 / M / sweden
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Posted 7/17/11
Easy fix remove it for US users, Keep it for the rest.... OR you can always sue CR or smth... Good Luck.
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30 / M / NC USA
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Posted 7/17/11

raetus wrote:


wakameyum wrote:

18 USC 1466A

As for specifics you can start with the first ten seconds of R-15, and riddled through out as well.



(a) In General.— Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly produces, distributes, receives, or possesses with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that—
(1)
(A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;and
(B) is obscene; or
(2)
(A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and
(B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;




Please also note it says "including", which does not mean it is limited to.

Either side can read what they want into the law, but the question is whether or not Crunchyroll would like to risk offering pornographic material of exploited children to children and adults.


And although wikipedia can hardly be considered a credible source, I recommend that everyone takes a look at the following to ensure they are in acting in accordance with their local laws. If you do not like the laws then you should work to have them changed in your own countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors
raetus 
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Posted 7/17/11

wakameyum wrote:

Please also note it says "including", which does not mean it is limited to.

Either side can read what they want into the law, but the question is whether or not Crunchyroll would like to risk offering pornographic material of exploited children to children and adults.


And although wikipedia can hardly be considered a credible source, I recommend that everyone takes a look at the following to ensure they are in acting in accordance with their local laws. If you do not like the laws then you should work to have them changed in your own countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_cartoon_pornography_depicting_minors




The "including" limiter makes your argument weaker, not stronger. And yes, quoting wikipedia is a de-facto admission of complete ignorance.

I'll be right back, though, I have to quickly change every sentence in that wikipedia page to haikus.
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34 / F / Florida
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Posted 7/17/11
To hell with that, I live in the US and one thing I detest is censorship, and I find it riddled in a lot of shows on here. I feel that it goes against the creators original vision of what he/she is delivering to the audience.

I have not seen R15, but this this certainly makes me want to now just out of plan curiosity. But even though I have not seen it yet, I think that if you truly find shows on here truly offensive, then do not watch, and/or make a request that crunch roll puts in more stricter parental restrictions if you are worried about minors watching this content. Better yet, actually be a parent to your children and know what the hell they are watching. Don't expect CR or any website do the parenting for you.
raetus 
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32 / M / USA
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Posted 7/17/11

VSorceress wrote:

To hell with that, I live in the US and one thing I detest is censorship, and I find it riddled in a lot of shows on here. I feel that it goes against the creators original vision of what he/she is delivering to the audience.

I have not seen R15, but this this certainly makes me want to now just out of plan curiosity. But even though I have not seen it yet, I think that if you truly find shows on here truly offensive, then do not watch, and/or make a request that crunch roll puts in more stricter parental restrictions if you are worried about minors watching this content. Better yet, actually be a parent to your children and know what the hell they are watching. Don't expect CR or any website do the parenting for you.


+1 for "be a parent."
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50 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 7/17/11 , edited 7/17/11

wakameyum wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:

Op are you really worried your nation's authorities are going to kick down your door and charge you with child porn?

or do you just take offense to the content yourself and are using this spurious legal argument to conceal your motives and provide you with a bigger stick with which to bully other people into agreeing with you?

Personally I find R-15 lacking in amusement value and probably won't watch it. But I find would be thought policemen like you VERY offensive. However, if you want have Crunchy Roll put a region block for the USA and allow the rest of us to watch. I have no problem with that. Your supposedly free country, isn't mine.


My argument is that it is in violation of US law so a region block on the US would certainly fix the problem unless the content is being hosted in the U.S., then they would need to set up an mirror in a country that agrees with allowing the simulated exploitation of minors. I do agree with the law and that is why I brought it up.


Well Mr. Thought Policeman. Thank you for answering honestly. Knowing that you're a crusader out to force your 'ideals' down the throats of everyone else makes you easier to ignore further.

Have a nice life. (Though I imagine it will be a tightly constrained and constantly outraged one)
Posted 7/17/11
OP is a troll, 2/10 for making me reply.


There are more lewd 3D things outside this world than this anime (2D).
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30 / M / Glendale, AZ
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Posted 7/17/11
While I understand that new bill the Tokyo governor proposed, CR was giving us censored anime ever before that bill. The broadcast version is censored to allow the uncensored satellite version to get an audience and to buy the DVDs.

However, unless you want to spend a lot of money buying an import, the Japanese should allow CR to air the uncensored version because there is no guarantee an English-speaking company will eve release it hear on DVD. I feel it is essentially cheating us. However, shows like Dance in the Vampire Bund having censorship is something I will not mind when they have a small vampire that is physically 13 strutting around naked. If she was more older looking like Evangelion's Asuka, the fan service is something I won't mind.
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30 / M / Dallas, TX
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Posted 7/17/11

thatyu wrote:

I'd say just put the same notice that they've had for Mitsudomoe Series, and all will be good.
You could pretty much tell how the show will be like just by reading the description.


To be fair, the description on Crunchroll's page doesn't seem very indicative of the content. But there have been multiple sources for reviews and previews each season, so if you're really worried about content, you should check out some of those before watching an episode. I haven't watched R-15 yet, but I was pretty well aware of what the show was about before reading this thread.

wakameyum: If this really offends you, maybe you should think about leaving a review to warn other users about the animated imagination porn.
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33 / M / Latham Ny USA
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Posted 7/17/11
If you believe it illegal go through the proper channels. It's unlikely that a mere forum post will bring forth your desired result. In the end even if you succeed it won't matter if someone wants to watch they will.
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30 / M / NC USA
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Posted 7/17/11 , edited 7/17/11

raetus wrote:


wakameyum wrote:

18 USC 1466A

As for specifics you can start with the first ten seconds of R-15, and riddled through out as well.



(a) In General.— Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly produces, distributes, receives, or possesses with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that—
(1)
(A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and
(B) is obscene; or
(2)
(A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, anal-genital, or oral-anal, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and
(B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value;


You would have to prove that the scenes are objectively obscene and/or have no merit to the literary/artstic value of the story and you would have to do so at a Federal level as it was already deemed necessary by the supreme court in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition.


Especially since it does not show any genital-genital sexual intercourse, you're never going to be able to prove anything.You also haven't seen the entire artistic work and have no idea how it plays into the story or not. All they would have to prove is that the scene shows his depravity as a writer and when he falls in love and writes these beautiful literary works, the scene acts as a foil for his final self.

In short: you have no grounds to stand on; complain away, get a lawyer, or cancel your account.

[edit] Also note that it never once says that the girl in the first scene is underage. It says she is about to break every rule and that the man is her teacher. She could be 18 in high school or she could be in college. It also does not show any sexual intercourse (even without the blurs). It's an incredibly weak argument. If you'd like something you can argue better, check out Koe de Oshigoto! [/edit]



Your argument stated that because you could not prove genital-genital sexual intercourse, you couldn't succeed in labeling this as child pornography. The "including, but not limited to" statement was to point out that it does not have to be genital-genital, but could " depict an image that is, or appear to be" "sexual intercourse."

I 100% do agree that it is the parents responsibility to control the access to any mature content to their children, and in most cases I do not have an issue with the ecchi Genre, however I do draw the line at what I consider the inappropriate depiction of children. Parents should be responsible, but that does not mean that just because your are not the parent of the child you have no obligation to not follow laws intended to protect children.

I am glad to see that so many of you have come to the conclusion that crunchyroll does not do enough to label mature content and offer the necessary safeguards to restrict this content. At the same time I made this thread I also made one in the feedback forum suggesting that greater parental control measures be put in place.

Please show your support and offer ideas on how to correct this in the following thread.
http://www.crunchyroll.com/forumtopic-724022/anime-ratings-and-access-controls


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36 / M / Tacodome
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Posted 7/17/11
I just finished watching it to see what the big deal was. Yes, there are some rather dirty scenes seeing as how the main character is some kind of "genius ero writer'. He sees something and usually finds some kind of fantasy to write about it.
Frankly, the worst scene was his fantasy with the photographer girl where her groin might have gotten felt up had the editing beam of light not been there. Yes, there's some implied sexuality, but no actual sex. Frankly, the show seems more about testing the limits of what can be aired than anything else.
But in my opinion I do wish the editing was taken out. Not because I want to particularly see what is happening, I just personally detest censorship. If I wanted to see sexual content I'd just go watch porn. That's what most people do with the internet after all.
If you want to attack shows on CR for "indecent" material. Check out oppai chanbara. Not only is it live action with constant bared unedited breasts, there's even an R rated sex scene.
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Posted 7/17/11 , edited 7/17/11
The U.S. ANN is saying that it contains significant content meaning that it is still not close to a pornography animé, if it were close Crunchy will put a need for age of 18+ on it following the U.S. law and F.Y.I. a movie ain't ranked pornography unless the genitals are shown, which are instead hidden under censoring in the animé.
There is a reason CR has an age-requirement of 13 as you normally are mature enough to understand that it is all fiction.
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