First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
Default The decline of seinen/serious anime?
Posted 7/20/11

AHTL wrote:

We keep hearing about "X is dying", when the truth is - it is not. Seinen/serious anime just don't come out that often, it is not a niche that is very popular. Less than serious anime shows will always be more popular, as they are easier to watch and "digest" - and lets face it, the majority of anime viewers are people around 12-17 years old - and in all likelihood most of them are not interested in seinen/serious anime shows.

Ecchi, comedy, action-adventure and such will always be the more popular.


I know that they don't come out "that often". As in not nearly as often as shonen. That's to be expected because of the demographic. My point is that as of the last few years, I have noticed that Seinen within the dark and action genre, seem to be even more sparse than I have ever seen before.

By when I say dark anime, I would also fit greats like Ghost in the shell. I'm not speaking exclusively of anime such as hellsing.
66770 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / Lagrange, KY
Offline
Posted 7/20/11

varnlestoff wrote:


AHTL wrote:

We keep hearing about "X is dying", when the truth is - it is not. Seinen/serious anime just don't come out that often, it is not a niche that is very popular. Less than serious anime shows will always be more popular, as they are easier to watch and "digest" - and lets face it, the majority of anime viewers are people around 12-17 years old - and in all likelihood most of them are not interested in seinen/serious anime shows.

Ecchi, comedy, action-adventure and such will always be the more popular.


I know that they don't come out "that often". As in not nearly as often as shonen. That's to be expected because of the demographic. My point is that as of the last few years, I have noticed that Seinen within the dark and action genre, seem to be even more sparse than I have ever seen before.

By when I say dark anime, I would also fit greats like Ghost in the shell. I'm not speaking exclusively of anime such as hellsing.


being the fan-boy that I am i am not sure if higurashi or umineko fall in that category. hmm... Dark anime.. well you have seen corpse princess, steins gate, chaos head, Black Butler, Darker Than Black, Dance in the Vampire Bund, [C] - CONTROL. Senien doesn't cover just dark animes as well hayate the combat butler and aria the scralet ammo also fall in to that as well.
75452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
50 / F / Center of the Uni...
Offline
Posted 7/20/11 , edited 7/20/11
welll I think there are multiple plus and minus changes occuring.

I hail back to the day when the only anime out there was bad 'adaptations' (ie sandy frank) or 3rd generation bootleg BetaMax tapes that had their origins in some visitor-to-japan's return carry-on.

I remember when the only place you could find real anime was in the dark corner of a sci fi convention and THEN you paid 100+ 1980's dollars for an 8 episode never finished OVA series.

Now people bitch when their simulacast is four days later than when it aired in Japan, cry me a river.

Against improvement in the general availability and throughput of anime to non japanese viewers. there is the dramatic shrinking of the source material. The domestic output of anime.

your guess is as good as mine as to what the net effect is. but over all. I'm watching more anime of greater variety than I ever have.

I think the companies really hurting from streaming, legal and illegal alike, are the importers. I think that's why there are currently rock bottom prices on just about anime anime that's 'in print'. and It's alway why I snap up just about every "90% off" crunchy deal I see.

Amid this chaos of ups and downs. I personally think that anime will survive as a medium and good 'serious' anime still is and will be made.
But that and a twonie won't even get you a ride on the TTC anymore, so....

Your Mileage May Vary.
44101 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
F / On a boat
Offline
Posted 7/20/11
I don't know if the genre is dying, but it is on the decline. But I think this is all attributed to what is considered popular, because sometimes it really is about what sells and right now that is the more lighthearted manga/anime that is fun and will attract a wide audience. Btw to the OP I LOVED Biomega . Biomega was fantastic, gorgeous drawing and interesting story as usual from the talented Tsutomu Nihei (Blame!). But I really dig the cyberpunk look of his manga. Also the main character looks like a young Trent Reznor anime style.
66770 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / Lagrange, KY
Offline
Posted 7/20/11


despite the legal or illegal ways of viewing shows your missing a huge key factor, 96% of the shows seen here are censored. That enough is selling point for people to buy dvd's/blurays. Also have having extra's on the disc that aren't online legally "even it's illegal" is enough for people to still buy them.. but that's just me... hmmm this is way to off subject.
75452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
50 / F / Center of the Uni...
Offline
Posted 7/20/11

Cecilthedarkknight234 wrote:



despite the legal or illegal ways of viewing shows your missing a huge key factor, 96% of the shows seen here are censored. That enough is selling point for people to buy dvd's/blurays. Also have having extra's on the disc that aren't online legally "even it's illegal" is enough for people to still buy them.. but that's just me... hmmm this is way to off subject.


well the points you mention are selling points for me. but there's got to be a reason Geneon shut down it's american ops, ADV broke up and sold 80% of it's library to Funimation, 4kids went belly up (YAY!!). and funimation is not doing exactly gangbusters.

66770 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / Lagrange, KY
Offline
Posted 7/20/11

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Cecilthedarkknight234 wrote:



despite the legal or illegal ways of viewing shows your missing a huge key factor, 96% of the shows seen here are censored. That enough is selling point for people to buy dvd's/blurays. Also have having extra's on the disc that aren't online legally "even it's illegal" is enough for people to still buy them.. but that's just me... hmmm this is way to off subject.


well the points you mention are selling points for me. but there's got to be a reason Geneon shut down it's american ops, ADV broke up and sold 80% of it's library to Funimation, 4kids went belly up (YAY!!). and funimation is not doing exactly gangbusters.



yes but funimation is jumping on the band wagon of doing streams as well, the recently did a survey a month back and asked if you would like a service like cr has in a nut shell even for mobile devices. To be honest uncut shows is what makes a show sell for me that and how it's packaged/handled. I like nisa stuff they have done with the art books, collectors pins, posters, ost ect. that alone is enough for me to warrant a purcahse.. but again I don't see streaming being the tell end of hard copies, people seem to be forgetting about data caps.
75452 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
50 / F / Center of the Uni...
Offline
Posted 7/20/11
i probably don't fit the normal demographic. I don't spend a penny on merchandise. no plushies, shot glasses, body pillows whatever. However I did spend extra money on my ISP to make sure my data cap was one that I'd NEVER exceed.
137580 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / USA
Offline
Posted 7/20/11
An anime fan cannot live on seinen alone.
1755 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
21 / M
Offline
Posted 7/21/11
I don't think it's dying as a demographic, but rather just not being released very often.

As was said in the beginning, companies make anime depending on what is selling or being popular at the time. Hence the large amounts of Moe anime in recent seasons.

The anime production companies don't make many, because, also said above, most of the people who watch and buy anime related products are Teenagers, or, older people who like moe (from what I see/think).
Posted 7/21/11

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Cecilthedarkknight234 wrote:



despite the legal or illegal ways of viewing shows your missing a huge key factor, 96% of the shows seen here are censored. That enough is selling point for people to buy dvd's/blurays. Also have having extra's on the disc that aren't online legally "even it's illegal" is enough for people to still buy them.. but that's just me... hmmm this is way to off subject.


well the points you mention are selling points for me. but there's got to be a reason Geneon shut down it's american ops, ADV broke up and sold 80% of it's library to Funimation, 4kids went belly up (YAY!!). and funimation is not doing exactly gangbusters.



Don't forget Tokyopop is gone from the U.S. too. Tokyopop was basically the pioneer of making manga and anime known to the western culture.
39662 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
35 / M / Construction land!
Offline
Posted 7/21/11

varnlestoff wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:
well the points you mention are selling points for me. but there's got to be a reason Geneon shut down it's american ops, ADV broke up and sold 80% of it's library to Funimation, 4kids went belly up (YAY!!). and funimation is not doing exactly gangbusters.


Don't forget Tokyopop is gone from the U.S. too. Tokyopop was basically the pioneer of making manga and anime known to the western culture.


Wait, what?? They were far from the pioneer of making it known. I will give Tokyopop credit for bringing manga to the mainstream, but they were far from the first. Let me look at the list of manga publishers in the US:

ADV Manga. Status- defunct. This was a casualty of ADV's rapid expansion into areas other than anime media (VHS/DVD) licensing and distribution. Other casualties from this include ADV Music (a spinoff from the ended merger of ADV and RightStuf's AnimeTrax label) and ADV Toys. They did at least get one successful creation, which is still around- The Anime Network.

ALC Publishing. Status- alive? This company has very low output, and I don't really track it. They are the only dedicated yuri publisher in the world, however. The less I say about this, the better, since I have certain... bad impressions... about other aspects...

Aurora Publishing. Status- defunct? Their main site is still up (the other labels, Deux and LuvLuv, have had their sites removed), though it's not been updated since October 2009, and their last release was March 2009. Reports are that their US office closed over a year ago. Almost all of their manga can be found cheaply. The problem I think is that they got in at the end of the bubble going for niche areas- josei and BL. Josei has always been a low seller, and BL was already a crowded market when they entered.

Bandai Entertainment. Status- alive. Better known for their anime, they started looking at some of their titles more as properties, and would also, if feasible to the company, get the manga for an anime they were releasing. Very frequently, a volume of their manga will wind up in a limited-edition bundle with the volume of the same anime. They slowly seem to be expanding this to more of their series.

Broccoli. Status- defunct. While the Japanese branch is still alive and well (Uta no Prince-sama being a current work of theirs), the US division, in a cost-cutting move, was completely shut down. I believe they did finish releasing every series they had the rights to, though all were in actually, just Broccoli JP titles. They also did a surprising amount of merchandising for their titles, also.

ComicsOne. Status- defunct. This company seems have had problems high up, and was bounced around quite a bit. They also had released material as Dr. Master, their Asian printing company. ComicsOne themselves were said to have just gotten up and abandoned everything. Their site was known to exist on Feb 20, 2005, with a Dr.Master inquiries form replacing it on the 23rd, to finally end with a 403 Forbidden on the 24th. (The domain expired some time in 2008.) While they have releases going into 2009, most of these were nothing more than bundles of previously released manga. On the Dr. Master front, their site is still up, with no updates since early 2009. (Weird given that their last volume was released in September 2009.)

CPM Manga. Status- defunct. CPM was one of the first manga publishers out there (and one of the first anime ones also, for that matter). If memory serves me correctly, they were also the first major adult manga publisher. The story of what happened to CPM is fairly well known; in a nutshell, the collapse of Musicland left them unable to pay bills, of which CPM was a fairly sizable bill. Musicland's default was large enough to CPM, forcing them to default, and they couldn't get back up.

CMX Manga. Status- defunct. Man, we don't have a good track record here. DC's entry into manga. It is theorized (though of course, not confirmable) that they saw the manga explosion as a threat to standard US comics, and thus they entered to adapt. When the manga bubble burst, they stepped out. The company otherwise seemed to be doing well, even occasionally landing a best seller.

Dark Horse. Status- alive. Another old company; they've been around with their target market, and stayed focused. Though they've made some unpopular decisions that they later recanted on (fans don't want unflipped manga?), their strong focus on comic book shops has kept them exposed to more markets.

DelRey. Status- transitional. Initially, they were a branch of Random House for manga. It was mainly a deal with Japanese giant Kodansha, however, in late 2010, Kodansha was to take over operations for DelRey manga, and keep Random House on board for distribution. Many titles have been delayed, others are in fear of cancelation from the switchover, but they are still releasing some titles.

Digital Manga. Status- thriving. They've become one of the big manga companies in the US. While they have a heavy focus on BL (and are now the undisputed heavyweight for it), they've got quite a few other lines, and have recently announced a new line, Project-H, to focus more on straight hentai manga, with some yuri thrown in. Project-H marks their 6th imprint brand. (The other 5 are DMP ("normal" manga), June (BL of varying ages), DokiDoki (a more romantic BL, usually 16+), 801 Media (hardcore yaoi), and DMP Platinum (classic and older manga).) They've even been able to bring over Japanese guests to anime cons in the past.

DramaQueen. Status- alive...? The website has actually seen a couple semi-recent updates (last one in May 2011), after a multi-year hiatus. Manga that were reported cancelled in 2008 are starting to show up. (The manga JUNK!, solicited in 2007, was released last month.) Their BL anthology, Rush, is expected to make a comeback sometime this year, though the page for Rush itself is visibly more outdated. (No date is visible, but a Happy Holidays X-mas picture is still up.) Some of their older titles are still availiable, though they are taking longer to restock.

Go!Comi. Status- defunct...? Almost certainly gone, their web domain had expired, and eventually surfaced as a donation site to revive the company. The prior owner states this is not true; the common assumption now is that this is a scam. Their last release was in 2009, though the reason for the company's demise is not known.

Gutsoon Entertainment. Status- defunct. This seems to have been another company attempting to emulate Dark Horse's success. Unfortunately, without the strong rooting in the comic stores, they were left to the book stores, at a time when shoujo manga were much stronger sellers on average. Their magazine, Raijin comics, ran for almost 4 years, but upon its cancellation in 2004, so too, were all the manga. Their site was last seen up on March 2007.

Infinity Studios. Status- defunct. They were a very manhwa (Korean) focused company. Unfortunately for them, a lack of awareness of manhwa led sales to suffer, as people thought of the releases as 'flipped', despite Korean books being left-to-right natively. Their last license, Iono-sama Fanatics, got only 1 volume out, their last release, in June 2007. The website is also gone.

Media Blasters. Status- questionable. While the company is still around, and still slowly releasing anime, their last manga was released in October 2009. A lack of success with standard shounen manga led them to do more yaoi as a complement to their Kitty line's yaoi releases. MB still has some manga of all persuasions listed as coming, but nothing has a release date, and the Media Blasters main site seems now to be more a portal of their Facebook pages.

NetComics. Status- alive? Their site shows updates as recent as Feb 2011, though their new release section dates to July 2010, the date of their last actual new release. They still have a solicitation out for the next volume, though it has no release date, nor any other future title solicited. They seem to have moved more to a digital format, though still, with nothing new...

Seven Seas. Status- alive. A company whose roots are that of manga-inspired comics, they have expanded into licensing manga also. (They like to call their creations "world manga"; I'll go into the terminology when I talk about Tokyopop.) They've gotten a surprisingly wide variety of manga, also, though they're not rushing to get titles.

Tokyopop. Status- defunct. Wow, when Levy gets tired of something, he really does just get up and go home. Before the closure, nobody would have hesitated to call Tokyopop one of the big 2, be it for manga in general (with Viz), or for BL (via the Blu line, with DMP's various imprints). But, a few years ago, Tokyopop decided to seek original creations- ones they could have more control over and, presumedly, also get cheaper. Their insistance on calling it some sort of manga ruffled quite a few fans of actual Japanese manga. (I've forgotten, and lost count of, all the terms Tokyopop has wanted to use. They had latched onto Seven Seas 'world manga' for a bit, but the most known term they liked was OEL (Original English Language) manga.) This even launched its own spinoff series, Rising Stars of Manga, which itself spun off some for other regions. But as time went on, quite a few of the creators were getting annoyed at Tokyopop's handling of anything that didn't sell well. I'd guess with less of a focus on manga, and some burnt bridges with new creators, they just pulled the plug.

Udon Entertainment. Status- alive, but mostly out of manga. They seem to have shifted more toward art books and things based on gaming franchises. However, almost all their manga is still availiable for order, and they still license the occasional gaming manga. Their last manga, a Megaman Gigamix, was released in May 2011.

Vertical. Status- alive. While manga is a small part of what they do, they are still releasing it. Most of the titles they get are more of a classical type, or of an artsy release. Osamu Tezuka makes up a fair number of these, but not all.

Viz. Status- thriving. Every industry has their 900-lb gorilla. That's Viz here. They have tons of releases, even more licenses, tie-ins with a couple of the Japanese publishing houses (Shogakukan and Shueisha), and is even rumored to be expanding. (A job opening on their site not too long ago was looking for an editor willing to work on BL titles, an area where Viz has no current market.) Viz has seen the changes of the market- from single issue comics to the flipped/unflipped issue, from adult magazine Pulp to the Shounen Jump anthology. While... slow to adapt in some cases, they would do so. Viz was actually one of the early experimentors of unflipped manga with their old release of the Evangelion manga. And with the Shounen Jump line, Viz isn't going anywhere any time soon...

Yen Press. Status- alive and well. This is another company that's been doing surprisingly well and growing. It also has a very diverse catalog, with manhwa (from their absorption of Ice Kunion), Chinese manhua, some novels, and even some European works. License rescues also do well for this company; they did get a couple of ADVs former manga licenses, and have reported good sales on them. Likewise, they finished all of the Ice Kunion titles. And with them still licensing things, some of which are really off-the-wall, they're doing quite well.

Gah, that took way too long. And I'm not going to bother going into the anime debate about what actually happened with ADV, or why Geneon actually did leave the US market. Maybe another time...
Ghost
AHTL 
91569 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / Norway
Online
Posted 11/28/12
OP nuked.

Locked~
First  Prev  1  2  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.