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is cr the best anime site?
Posted 12/10/11

agila61 wrote:


Aero-Mach wrote:
Sorry, I don't think this rule exists, it's cool that you're trying to defend Crunchyroll, but that is hardly the way to do it, how often do we talk about something and not mention it's name? That's frustrating for the members who don't know what we're referring too.

Crunchyroll can defend itself, I'm concerned about the creators of the content that the site are bloodsucking off of.

As far as it being "frustrating" to talk about bootleg sites without naming them ~ tough. Don't spam the forum with the name to get to a bootleg site, period. Not on purpose, and not by accident.


And you think free with have a worse selection than a premium pricetag, since I'm sure The Chesswecake Factory selection is better than a Church's (Not the chicken place.... Religious place.)

A church would not be making food with ingredients shoplifted from the grocery store, so its not the same situation as a site that uses the work of the original creators of the anime, the work of the fansub group, and the work of the streaming site that is being abused by having the bootlegs uploaded onto it. Obviously its a lot easier for them to host a lot of bootlegs, since they let someone else do 99% of the required work.

People that are happy being freeloaders and hoping that someone else will hand over the money to keep the anime being made, of course there are bootleg sites with greater variety, which can update the RAW's as soon as the physical release comes out by ripping a new source of the DVD or BD. The leech streaming sites are like dandelions: unless SOPA passes, when one of those sites is shut down, it seems like two more spring up to take their place. Some people find Crunchyroll more convenient or higher quality for the series they have, some people don't ~ Your Mileage Will Vary.

For example, I don't watch anime to see drawings of lightly clad girls, whether of age or underage, so I don't give a damn whether its the broadcast cut or the DVD cut. For other people, its a BFD. Whatevers.

People who are actually in the market that the anime is being made for ~ the people that the freeloaders are freeloading off of ~ Crunchyroll is definitely one of the top two sites for streaming anime.


There's no blackmarket for food, and if there was, it wouldn't be as high quality as Cheesecake Factory or Central Market, as everything that is stolen, has faults.

However, Crunchyroll is far from the top of the dog pile, see my other post a page ago.


I don't think Crunchyroll is the community that are afraid of nude people, blood and gore, if I'm going to watch Highschool or the Dead(Ecchi/Gory), I wouldn't want to watch it here.

Crunchyroll removes anime seemingly on a daily basis, you pay for most of the features Funimation, Hulu offer for free, even YouTube(Before you say anything, companies upload Anime to there).

Crunchyroll also has more advertisement than normal, it more than not has 3/4 commercials that aren't short, compared to Hulu, which sometimes gives you the option to skip advertisement and answer some questions that get them taken away for a few hours/streams, and best of all, Hulu's and Funimation KNOW streaming the censored version of Sora No Otoshimono just doesn't make any sense.

I think it matters little what you like to see in Anime, not only does it censor girls/guys(Which sometimes the anime is based around?), it censors some language, some under lying messages and some potentially offensive remarks(Think Family Guy), and that takes the humor and life out of the anime.


Koihime Musou is damn-near Yuri, and it FOCUSES on the appeal of the main female characters..... a censored version makes no sense, an ECCHI list on a site of censored anime is plain...dumb, most otakus and anime watchers I know, skip the dub releases and watches it subbed because of the censoring(And voices).

Japanese watch the anime uncensored, that's why it comes out uncensored of the American versions are usually slandered to hell because of the demographic here, and most people(I know), rather watch Anime the way it was intended to be.


This site selection of Anime is limited, and I mean REALLY limited, it's business practices are by far one of the dumbest things I ever heard, censored Anime-Only is stopping a MASSIVE chunk of Anime from being on this site, that me and plenty others like to watch.


For example, I don't watch anime to see drawings of lightly clad girls.


You just called Crunchyroll, one of the top, for YOU!

For the majority? That's a far different story, I'm sure most of this forum don't even use Crunchyroll to watch Anime.

And I better get around to watching Squid Girl before Crunchyroll turns finicky and removes it.
Posted 12/10/11 , edited 12/10/11

agila61 wrote:


varnlestoff wrote:
What? No, it's not leeching or stealing links, it's embedding.

Its called leeching a stream because the site puts up a face as if they host the stream, but the stream is really hosted by another site ~ normally one of the big free video streaming sites in violation of their terms and conditions of use. They are like leeches sucking off the free video hosting sites.


The sites who host these videos can turn embedding off.

The sites that host these videos have embedding turned on for user generated content, not for bootlegs.


Also, the sites that are getting the most imbeds are themselves, fourth party uploads, who get their episodes from fansubs, who in turn get the videos from uploads in Asia.

The fansubs do not have the copyright on the original RAW, but they have a copyright on their own work. Thats a derivative work, so it requires permission of both the original creators in Japan and the fansub group to legally make a copy for distribution.


Also, please cite any law that states that embedding is illegal in the U.S., or even Asia for the matter, because it's only their law that we are concerned about in this scenario.

Where the popular leech streaming sites break the law is when their volunteers upload fresh copies of the bootlegs to the free video hosting sites because the copy they were leeching from before has been pulled for copyright infringement.


If you want to get as close to the original "illegal file upload", you would need to go talk to some fan-sub groups or know the original source directly. Again, information can be made illegal to distribute through licensing, but third party distribution of it can not.
Its legal to share references to files hosted somewhere else, and its the responsibility of the host, and for free upload sites the individual user, to ensure that copyright is respected.

That's the what the leech sites pretend they are doing: just sharing links to files that are already there. For legal purposes, they pretend that they are not supported by volunteers who illegally upload bootlegs onto free video streaming sites in order to have the links to share.



"They don't pretend anything". At least, the sites I go to usually have around 5-8 different embeds for every video, nobody is being tricked into believing that they upload their own content. Impossible with a thread based site.

I've never heard about sites "pretending to not be supported by bootleggers". But i'll give it to you on the "embeds that lead to fresh uploads from volunteers". To an extent.

The fresh upload may be directed at the community, but it would be impossible to make a solid legal argument that frags an entire community over what one person has done. Therefore, it would most likely fall under ambiguous, and still rely on an ethical argument to make a justification or case against. Also, there are fresh embeds that sites get, which were originally uploaded for a different host site to embed, and word of mouth brings the fresh embed to another site.

Moving on... Your argument will be more compelling once bootleg sites go legit like CR, and like I've said in earlier posts, I support that.

However, CR is setting a bad example for what it means to be a legitimate transaction of anime. People are afraid of going legit because they do not want to change something that is easier, they will always want the easy way out as to be expected of an entertainment on demand industry. So until going legitimate has enough endorsement by the eastern market, the majority of the online western market, will be driven by bootleg until a real site can go legitimate without losing it's community, and still provide hassle free anime.

ie: If CR who has gone legit, has a terribly difficult time receiving permission to host licensed anime, then no way in hell will bootleg sites attempt the same thing, and I understand exactly why. I've been with CR long before it went legitimate, and with fansub groups since 1999. Confidence is down, and the Japanese market is what needs to make the push to help develop legitimate anime sites in the west, but there is not enough support, and everyone understands how annoying all the red tape of legitimacy is. The majority wants to watch anime, not play legal 101, and find a site that's "allowed" to have anime A-B. Make legitimacy more interesting, then you'll start winning.

This means that no matter your feelings against bootleg sites, simply "taking them down" like some ignorant users on this site blindly profess, would do more harm than good by alienating the majority demographic that you actually want to bring in. You have to respect the roots, and in this case, anime started online THROUGH bootleg.
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Posted 12/10/11 , edited 12/10/11

varnlestoff wrote:
"They don't pretend anything". At least, the sites I go to usually have around 5-8 different embeds for every video, nobody is being tricked into believing that they upload their own content. Impossible with a thread based site.

The majority of the embeds were originally uploaded so that they could be streamed on a leech streaming site.


The fresh upload may be directed at the community, but it would be impossible to make a solid legal argument that frags an entire community over what one person has done.

If someone was working on enforcing it, they wouldn't direct any action at all against the freeloaders at the leech streaming site. What they would do would be to strip the streaming links out of the pages with an automatic script, including the series and episode information included on the page, hand that information over to the license owner, who would issue a C&D to Veoh or Megavideo or MySpace or whatever free hosting site is being abused by the uploaders for the leech streaming site.

If SOPA passes, then of course all of the leech streaming sites are getting shut down in a week or two. SOPA makes it far to easy to shut down legitimate sites that happen to have, for instance, some comment with a link to some site with a bootleg in it ... shutting down the bootleg streaming sites that are focused on supporting making copyright infringing material available to as many people as possible will be a cakewalk if SOPA passes.


Therefore, it would most likely fall under ambiguous, and still rely on an ethical argument to make a justification or case against.

I never actually said anything about bringing legal cases. I was talking about the forum topic. How good Crunchyroll is as a streaming site does depend in part whether the person answering the question is a customer or a freeloader.

If someone is happy to be a freeloader, they've got a certain range of sites they are looking at, and they are only worried about things like convenience, risk of getting viruses, stream quality, etc. If someone is a customer instead of a freeloader, they have a different range of sites they are looking at.


Also, there are fresh embeds that sites get, which were originally uploaded for a different host site to embed, and word of mouth brings the fresh embed to another site.

Yes, there are leech sites that don't even do the work the main leech sites do, but instead they leech off of other leeches. Kind of freeloading to the second power. But they always lag behind the sites that do the uploads to generate the streaming link in the first place.


Moving on... Your argument will be more compelling once bootleg sites go legit like CR, and like I've said in earlier posts, I support that.

They are not going to go legit, its way, way beyond their reach. They do such a small part of the total work and rely on others to do so much of the work that they just don't have the skills to go legit. Remember, Crunchyroll was not a leech streaming site, Crunchyroll always hosted its videos itself, so when Crunchyroll decided to try to go legit, they had some actual skills to bring to the table.

A leech streaming site trying to go legit would be like a two hundred pound overweight couch potato deciding they are going to go out for the Olympic 400m dash.


However, CR is setting a bad example for what it means to be a legitimate transaction of anime. People are afraid of going legit because they do not want to change something that is easier, they will always want the easy way out as to be expected of an entertainment on demand industry.

Leech streaming sites as part of the "entertainment on demand industry". That's hilarious. That's like calling someone squatting in an abandoned vacant property part of the real estate industry.


So until going legitimate has enough endorsement by the eastern market,

I have not idea what this phrase is supposed to mean.


ie: If CR who has gone legit, has a terribly difficult time receiving permission to host licensed anime, then no way in hell will bootleg sites attempt the same thing, and I understand exactly why.

They've gone from no permission in 2007, to a couple of series permission in 2008, to half a dozen series permission per season in 2009, to over a dozen series a season permission in 2011. Crunchyroll is by no means having "a terribly difficult time receiving permission to host licensed anime" ~ they are the industry leader. Last time the number slipped out, early last year, Crunchyroll was at 30,000 paying subscribers. Now, according to TV Tokyo, Crunchyroll is at nearly 70,000. Sometime next year Crunchyroll will pass 100,000 paying subscribers.

And 100,000 paying subscribers carry far more weight than 5m freeloaders would do. Its not like the Japanese content creators want the leech streaming sites to carry bootlegs of their work: they don't. But anime is a small niche industry, and the Japanese content creators just cannot afford the kind of IP protection departments that the big Hollywood studios have, or that the NFL and MLB have. They are easy for the leech streaming sites to take advantage of because they are such small, underfunded companies.


I've been with CR long before it went legitimate, and with fansub groups since 1999. Confidence is down, and the Japanese market is what needs to make the push to help develop legitimate anime sites in the west, but there is not enough support, and everyone understands how annoying all the red tape of legitimacy is. The majority wants to watch anime, not play legal 101, and find a site that's "allowed" to have anime A-B. Make legitimacy more interesting, then you'll start winning.

Whatevers: Crunchyroll's subscriber base is growing steadily, so while habitual freeloaders might be discouraged, there seem to be enough customers for Crunchyroll to keep making profits, keep growing, and, of course, continue expanding their share of the Japanese anime broadcast season.


This means that no matter your feelings against bootleg sites, simply "taking them down" like some ignorant users on this site blindly profess, would do more harm than good by alienating the majority demographic that you actually want to bring in. You have to respect the roots, and in this case, anime started online THROUGH bootleg.

I didn't say anything about "taking down the bootleg sites" ~ you are bringing some other discussions you had with someone else and putting it on me, when I didn't say that.

As far as alienating the freeloader demographic ~ since they are not generating revenue, what harm would there be in alienating them? Its "the customer is always right", not "the freeloader is always right".


Aero-Mach wrote: Crunchyroll removes anime seemingly on a daily basis,

Yes, that is because it gets more simulcasts than anybody else. The license deal on streaming simulcasts goes that if the series is licensed by someone else, the series lapses. They had Glass Maiden and CATMAN on a package deal, Glass Maiden was licensed by Sentei so Section23 could sell the DVD's and TAN could stream the series and put it on cable Video on Demand ... so the streaming license expired.


you pay for most of the features Funimation, Hulu offer for free, even YouTube(Before you say anything, companies upload Anime to there).

Crunchyroll also has more advertisement than normal, it more than not has 3/4 commercials that aren't short, compared to Hulu, which sometimes gives you the option to skip advertisement and answer some questions that get them taken away for a few hours/streams,

But you cannot get rid of the commercials at Hulu, even if you subscribe. Their K-dramas have seven ad breaks, even on Hulu+. Basically, Hulu+ lets me pay to get the same service on my Roku that I get for free on Crunchyroll ~ and if I pay at Crunchyroll, I get my Roku streams completely ad-free.


and best of all, Hulu's and Funimation KNOW streaming the censored version of Sora No Otoshimono just doesn't make any sense.


FUNimation was streaming to promote their DVD release, of course they streamed the DVD cut. It would be fan delusion to think that was some editorial decision ~ if they had had the simulcast, they would have started out streaming the censored version, because that is the version available at the time of broadcast.

And its even more delusional to think that Hulu made some kind of editorial decision to stream the DVD version of Sora no Otoshimono ~ the channel publisher makes that decision, not Hulu.


I think it matters little what you like to see in Anime, not only does it censor girls/guys (Which sometimes the anime is based around?), it censors some language, some under lying messages and some potentially offensive remarks (Think Family Guy), and that takes the humor and life out of the anime.

I think this censorship of language you are talking about is a fantasy. When Crunchyroll gets a stream from an R1 distributor, it puts up the R1 distributor's subtitles.


Japanese watch the anime uncensored, ...

On DVD they do. Not on television. The reason that the censored version exists is to broadcast it on television to create demand for people to buy the DVD's.


You just called Crunchyroll, one of the top, for YOU!

For the majority?

For the majority of anime streaming customers, Crunchyroll is one of the top.

How big the market is compared to the non-paying audience doesn't really matter. All that matter is the actual size of the audience inside the market. The non-paying audience doesn't help a struggling anime inbetweener to pay his bills, while the audience that is in the market does. We're the ones the Japanese anime production committees are making the anime for ... the non-paying audience is just sneaking peeks over our shoulder.
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Posted 12/10/11
I guess this would depend on what you're looking for in a anime site.

-Quality of the animes.
-Large quantity of animes.
-No advertisements.
-Safe to use(because some websites spread virus with links and etc)

Basically I like Crunchyroll because of the quality and the number of animes aren't that bad just wished there was more o4o.
Posted 12/10/11
You don't have to pay to support a company, watching ads, and giving hits is another way to generate revenue.

YouTube and Dailymotion don't make you pay for anything, and I'm sure if YouTube wasn't owned by Google Inc, it would still have deeper pockets than Crunchyroll.


For the majority of anime streaming customers, Crunchyroll is one of the top.

How big the market is compared to the non-paying audience doesn't really matter. All that matter is the actual size of the audience inside the market. The non-paying audience doesn't help a struggling anime inbetweener to pay his bills, while the audience that is in the market does. We're the ones the Japanese anime production committees are making the anime for ... the non-paying audience is just sneaking peeks over our shoulder.


Like I said, the hits and ad watching does provide revenue, otherwise paying would be the ONLY way to watch Crunchyroll,

And where are you getting info about Crunchyroll having 100,000 paying subscribers? How many of those people forgot to cancel their subscription after the "Free" trial?

I know of no Otaku's, or big anime watchers here.

In San-Japan, a anime convention in San Antonio, most of their audience get DVDs for their anime, they don't stream illegal Anime for bootleg sites, and they sure as hell don't stick to the limited source that is Crunchyroll.

The top Anime outlets would be AniPlex, Funimation.

And Hulu is also a big supporter on Anime and it likely has more than Crunchyroll,

Netflix has more Anime than Crunchyroll, and I'm 100% more Anime watchers use Hulu, Netflix, Funimation and Aniplex more than Crunchyroll.

For streaming, it's obviously Netflix or Hulu,

You can't be a top streamer with a piss-poor selection of Anime.

Somethings just don't make any sense no matter how you try to spin them.
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Posted 12/11/11

Aero-Mach wrote: You don't have to pay to support a company, watching ads, and giving hits is another way to generate revenue.

I never said you have to subscribe to support a company. While watching ads and giving hits does not generate much profit for the streaming company, it will still generate royalty payments to the producers in Japan, which is the important thing.


YouTube and Dailymotion don't make you pay for anything, and I'm sure if YouTube wasn't owned by Google Inc, it would still have deeper pockets than Crunchyroll.

But Youtube loses money, so a small, dedicated company definitely would need some big brother like Google to keep running on that basis.



For the majority of anime streaming customers, Crunchyroll is one of the top.

How big the market is compared to the non-paying audience doesn't really matter. All that matter is the actual size of the audience inside the market. The non-paying audience doesn't help a struggling anime inbetweener to pay his bills, while the audience that is in the market does. We're the ones the Japanese anime production committees are making the anime for ... the non-paying audience is just sneaking peeks over our shoulder.


Like I said, the hits and ad watching does provide revenue, otherwise paying would be the ONLY way to watch Crunchyroll,

The non-paying audience are the people downloading torrents or watching on leech streaming sites. People watching ad-streaming, whether on Crunchyroll.com, Funimation.com, Hulu.com, Viz.com, YouTube.com legit channels ~ there are paying customers for the stream, called "advertisers", who are willing to pay on behalf of that audience.


And where are you getting info about Crunchyroll having 100,000 paying subscribers? How many of those people forgot to cancel their subscription after the "Free" trial?

Reading Is Fundamental. As I said, when the number of paying subscribers was given in public last year, it was 30,000. Just recently, TV Tokyo mentioned to its shareholders that paying subscribers to Crunchyroll are now near 70,000. And then I said, that that rate of growth, sometime next year Crunchyroll is going to reach 100,000 customers.


I know of no Otaku's, or big anime watchers here.

People hang out at different places. And lots of Crunchyroll viewers never go into the forums. "I know of ..." is just anecdotal evidence, and doesn't carry any serious weight.


In San-Japan, a anime convention in San Antonio, most of their audience get DVDs for their anime, they don't stream illegal Anime for bootleg sites, and they sure as hell don't stick to the limited source that is Crunchyroll.

The question is streaming sites, not DVD distributors. The anime DVD market is a mature niche market. Its by far a bigger share of total revenue, both gross revenue in North America and rights revenue back to the original creators in Japan ~ but its not a growing market.


The top Anime outlets would be AniPlex, Funimation.

No, AniPlex is not a top streaming site. FUNimation.com is not directly a top streaming site, at least not yet, but as they discussed last year, they do far more streaming at their channels then they do at their site. While that is likely to continue going ahead, if their premium subscriber option at Funimation.com is successful, they could well generate more revenue at their own site.


And Hulu is also a big supporter on Anime and it likely has more than Crunchyroll,

Hulu is not a "supporter on Anime", its a place where a number of companies go to do their streaming. As a streaming site, it has more catalog titles than Crunchyroll, while Crunchyroll has more simulcasts.


Netflix has more Anime than Crunchyroll, and I'm 100% more Anime watchers use Hulu, Netflix, Funimation and Aniplex more than Crunchyroll.

As a streaming site, Netflix is almost entirely catalog titles. Its also mostly dub titles, so it would be one of the top sites or the top site for dub viewers, but less highly rated for sub viewers.


For streaming, it's obviously Netflix or Hulu,

For simulcast streaming, Crunchyroll is clearly first. For catalog titles, it would be Netflix or Hulu, depending on whether you prefer dubs (Netflix) or subs (Hulu).


You can't be a top streamer with a piss-poor selection of Anime.

And Crunchyroll has the largest selection of simulcasts available ~ not only the largest selection of simulcasts in North America, but also the largest selection of simulcasts for the rest of the Americas, for UK and Northern Europe, for Australia and New Zealand, and for Africa and the Middle East.


Somethings just don't make any sense no matter how you try to spin them.

Sometimes when you start out trying to argue to reach a particular answer ~ like you are set out trying to argue that Crunchyroll is not the best from any perspective, and then collected points that you thought supported that argument ~ you ignore things that are obvious to people who do not have their answer decided in advance ~ like the point that simulcasts and catalog titles are two distinct things, and its absurd to just lump them together when trying to make your argument.
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Posted 12/11/11
~For me, it was, until a lot of animes got licensed and I can't watch them anymore.
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Posted 12/11/11

Aero-Mach wrote:


eclair-lumiere wrote:

There are a lot of anime not on here but Crunchyroll is still definitely the best. It seems to be the only anime site where the videos are in HD quality. It also has groups, discussions, news etc. which other sites don't have.


Actually all sites have this.

People don't really care for news whenever they wanna watch anime, but that's what IGN is for.

And it's only in HD whenever you pay for this crap service, other sites such as Animefreak(Sometimes) let me stream in 1080P and the uncensored version to boot.


well ive never seen any HD oanime or news and stuff on other sites. and I dont pay for crunchyroll but it is still HD
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Posted 12/11/11

Aero-Mach wrote:
And it's only in HD whenever you pay for this crap service, other sites such as Animefreak(Sometimes) let me stream in 1080P and the uncensored version to boot.

They let you do that because they get it streaming off of someone else. Freeloading is cheaper than paying rent, unless someone happens to cut the freeloading off.


eclair-lumiere wrote: well ive never seen any HD oanime or news and stuff on other sites. and I dont pay for crunchyroll but it is still HD

Its not HD as in 720p, but according to Zac at ANN, the 480p streaming by Crunchyroll, Hulu and maybe one or two others is higher than DVD quality.
Posted 12/11/11
It's the only one I really know about/have ever been to : /
Posted 12/11/11
YouTube doesn't lose money?


But Youtube loses money, so a small, dedicated company definitely would need some big brother like Google to keep running on that basis.


No substance, If YouTube was constantly losing money, if would have been shut down a long time ago.


The non-paying audience are the people downloading torrents or watching on leech streaming sites. People watching ad-streaming, whether on Crunchyroll.com, Funimation.com, Hulu.com, Viz.com, YouTube.com legit channels ~ there are paying customers for the stream, called "advertisers", who are willing to pay on behalf of that audience.


This is a very weak argument as companies don't just pay on the behalf of non-paying customers, ads would generate no money, if nobody loaded them, and trying to stuff people into your category makes the cup, strain and bust.

There isn't only a Paying Audience and a Leeching audience, not only is this a blind statement, you already corrected this when you brought up Funimation, Hulu and YouTube, and those corporations aren't willing to pay on my behalf because I don't wanna use Crunchyroll.


People hang out at different places. And lots of Crunchyroll viewers never go into the forums. "I know of ..." is just anecdotal evidence, and doesn't carry any serious weight.


Doesn't this mean your theories carry no beef either? You didn't even disclose a link.


Hulu is not a "supporter on Anime", its a place where a number of companies go to do their streaming. As a streaming site, it has more catalog titles than Crunchyroll, while Crunchyroll has more simulcasts.


The same could be said about Crunchyroll? It just so happens that Crunchyroll's catalog is a joke, along with search function and available Anime, Crunchyroll doesn't support Anime anymore than Hulu does, and before you get technical, I didn't say you said that, it was a true statement.


For simulcast streaming, Crunchyroll is clearly first. For catalog titles, it would be Netflix or Hulu, depending on whether you prefer dubs (Netflix) or subs (Hulu).


Netflix has plenty of subs and Hulu has plenty of dubs?

The option that Crunchyroll should have is choice which is something Hulu is obviously better at.

Sora No Otoshimono(Heaven's Lost Property) is available in both subs and dubs, Huly nor Netflix specifically pick either one.

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Posted 12/11/11 , edited 12/12/11

Aero-Mach wrote:

YouTube doesn't lose money?


But Youtube loses money, so a small, dedicated company definitely would need some big brother like Google to keep running on that basis.


No substance, If YouTube was constantly losing money, if would have been shut down a long time ago.


Empty claim with no source. Try Reuters last year: Sun Valley: When Will YouTube Make A Profit?



The non-paying audience are the people downloading torrents or watching on leech streaming sites. People watching ad-streaming, whether on Crunchyroll.com, Funimation.com, Hulu.com, Viz.com, YouTube.com legit channels ~ there are paying customers for the stream, called "advertisers", who are willing to pay on behalf of that audience.


This is a very weak argument as companies don't just pay on the behalf of non-paying customers, ads would generate no money, if nobody loaded them, and trying to stuff people into your category makes the cup, strain and bust.

There isn't only a Paying Audience and a Leeching audience, not only is this a blind statement, you already corrected this when you brought up Funimation, Hulu and YouTube, and those corporations aren't willing to pay on my behalf because I don't wanna use Crunchyroll.

There is only either a paying audience or a freeloader audience. Those are the only two possibilities.

"Paying audience" obviously includes people who watch ad-streaming as well as those who are subscribers to a site. The royalty checks do not care who paid, they just care that someone paid. When people freeload, none of the animators or voice actors get paid, so that audience doesn't count.



People hang out at different places. And lots of Crunchyroll viewers never go into the forums. "I know of ..." is just anecdotal evidence, and doesn't carry any serious weight.

Doesn't this mean your theories carry no beef either? You didn't even disclose a link.

That's the point that I was making there: you made a claim where even if you had a link to back it up, the link would be meaningless, since its just anecdotal evidence.



Hulu is not a "supporter on Anime", its a place where a number of companies go to do their streaming. As a streaming site, it has more catalog titles than Crunchyroll, while Crunchyroll has more simulcasts.

The same could be said about Crunchyroll?

No, "the same" could not be said about Crunchyroll. Crunchyroll licenses the streaming rights. Hulu does not license any anime, they just act as a middle man between the advertisers and subscribers on one hand and the streaming rights holders on the other hand. FUNimation, TheAnimeNetwork, Viz, etc., they are the ones who are holding the streaming rights.


It just so happens that Crunchyroll's catalog is a joke, along with search function and available Anime, Crunchyroll doesn't support Anime anymore than Hulu does, and before you get technical, I didn't say you said that, it was a true statement.

Do you understand what Hulu is and who hold the licenses for the anime that you can see at Hulu? Hulu does not license any of that content, they are just a middleman, hosting the stream of the US streaming rights licensee that uploads material they have rights to, and paying a share of revenue from ads and subscribers back to the licensee.

And bear in mind that ad-supported video does not yield very much per view. A recent estimate of longform online video advertising CPM (Cost per mille) rates is about $40, or about 4 cents per ad per viewer. Hulu pays around 30% of gross revenue to the rights owner and about 10%, so if there are four ads, that is 16 cents gross, and 30% of that is 4.8 cents. So its not surprising that Lance from ANN has mentioned several times when he's appeared on ANNcasts that FUNimation loses money on simulcasts.



For simulcast streaming, Crunchyroll is clearly first. For catalog titles, it would be Netflix or Hulu, depending on whether you prefer dubs (Netflix) or subs (Hulu).

Netflix has plenty of subs and Hulu has plenty of dubs?

Yes, but Netflix has a stronger selection in terms of dubs and the dubs on Hulu typically have a much shorter availability window.


The option that Crunchyroll should have is choice which is something Hulu is obviously better at.

Hulu has that choice because of the R1 licensees that have decided to have Hulu channels. That's also why Hulu has fewer simulcasts, because the focus of the R1 licensees is on the series that they have licensed for release on DVD.


Sora No Otoshimono(Heaven's Lost Property) is available in both subs and dubs, Huly nor Netflix specifically pick either one.

The fact that you are trying to argue about hundreds of titles based on one example shows the weakness of your approach.
Go to the mania.com Legal Streaming list, do a count of Netflix dubs and subs, do a count of Hulu dubs and subs, you'll see what I am talking about.

Edit: Since you want links as a defense for your unsourced and mostly fictitious claims: Free Legal Streaming Anime Master List.

Check out the Simulcasts: there is no doubt that for viewers of legit simulcats, Crunchyroll has the biggest selection:

20 ~ Crunchyroll
11 ~ Hulu
9 ~ Funimation
7 ~ niconico.com
4 ~ Viz Anime
3 ~ TAN
1 ~ niconico.jp
0 ~ YouTube

Netflix: not even listed in the Simulcasts, since they never have simulcasts.


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agila61 wrote:


Aero-Mach wrote:
And it's only in HD whenever you pay for this crap service, other sites such as Animefreak(Sometimes) let me stream in 1080P and the uncensored version to boot.

They let you do that because they get it streaming off of someone else. Freeloading is cheaper than paying rent, unless someone happens to cut the freeloading off.


eclair-lumiere wrote: well ive never seen any HD oanime or news and stuff on other sites. and I dont pay for crunchyroll but it is still HD

Its not HD as in 720p, but according to Zac at ANN, the 480p streaming by Crunchyroll, Hulu and maybe one or two others is higher than DVD quality.


I have no idea what 720p or 480p means. I'm just saying it looks HD on here because it is high quality, whereas other sites are all blurry.
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Posted 12/12/11

eclair-lumiere wrote:


agila61 wrote: Its not HD as in 720p, but according to Zac at ANN, the 480p streaming by Crunchyroll, Hulu and maybe one or two others is higher than DVD quality.

I have no idea what 720p or 480p means. I'm just saying it looks HD on here because it is high quality, whereas other sites are all blurry.

If you look at the bottom of Crunchyroll streaming window (on the web, not in the apps), you can see a "SD" button and a "480p" button. Subscribers also get a "720p" button if Crunchyroll was given HD source material by the Japanese anime creators.

The number is how many lines in the stream. (The letter can be "p" or "i", and the "p" is the sharper one).

So 480p means 480 lines for each frame. ("SD" means 360 lines for each frame). HD TV's have either 780 lines on their screen or 1080 lines, so "720p" is technically "HD".

But you are quite right that "480p" streams at Crunchyroll being higher quality than many bootleg sites. Many of the bootleg streaming sites have low quality streams. That's because they can't afford to pay to stream it themselves, so they are really streaming from a free video upload site (like YouTube, but since YouTube limits free uploads to 10 minutes, more often MySpace, VEOH or Megavideo).

A lot of the free upload sites limit the quality of the stream to save money. So a lot of the bootleg sites that use those free streaming services have blurry streams.

Since everyone who watches Crunchyroll is part of a paying audience (either ads or paid memberships), Crunchyroll can afford higher quality streams. The Crunchyroll 480p streams are the same number of lines as a DVD, but because it is a more modern video file format, they are sharper than DVD quality.
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CR really is the best anime webbie ^-^
Someone I met said that they watch anime on netflix.. but it probably sucks anyway~ Just saying ^-^
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