First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
Anime with a "smooth" animation?
1487 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / F
Offline
Posted 8/9/11

andydono Come back to me when Japanese animated tv series starts using lip sync, then we'll start talking.


I've seen anime that use it. o_O




Artistic style of anime (in other words detail) is arguable, but for the most part animation in anime is crap. And this is coming from a guy who generally likes Japanese cartoons more than Western cartoons.

I can't agree. I'd much rather see a fluid sword/gun battle in an anime series than the ridiculous fights in American cartoons where to represent a "fight" they draw a dust ball and characters' legs and arms going in and out.

The reason why anime animation uses less frames than American cartoons is because everything's so f**king detailed. I seriously can't blame them. And I'd take a scene with a beautiful character standing still as the wind blows their hair over a scene with a googly-eyed, bouncing yellow sponge ANY DAY.

Who cares how much it can move around? If the art is crap, it's not worth it.

11243 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / BC, Canada =P
Offline
Posted 8/10/11 , edited 8/10/11

Chiibihime wrote:

I've seen anime that use it. o_O

I'm sorry I should of been more specific and said "Until animated Japanese series starts using lip sync on a regular basis, then we'll start talking".


I can't agree. I'd much rather see a fluid sword/gun battle in an anime series than the ridiculous fights in American cartoons where to represent a "fight" they draw a dust ball and characters' legs and arms going in and out.


Wow talk about selective example... I'm going to take a wild guess you never even saw any animated DC/Marvel series.


The reason why anime animation uses less frames than American cartoons is because everything's so f**king detailed. I seriously can't blame them. And I'd take a scene with a beautiful character standing still as the wind blows their hair over a scene with a googly-eyed, bouncing yellow sponge ANY DAY.


Now your just making shit up, the main reason why animation in anime is crap is due to the fact they're often on a tight schedule with low budget, thus they'll have to cut corners to make the dead line as oppose to the American animators who often have bigger budget and more time for creative thinking/planning. The Japanese usually emphasis "quantity over quality" when it comes to anime (and even manga to an certain extent), don't know why your so butthurt about this old knowledge.


Who cares how much it can move around? If the art is crap, it's not worth it.


Who cares how much detail it has; if 60% of the animation is full of boring facial scenes back to back, motionless scenes that eats up 10 minutes of screen time, action choreography that are usually 2 lame balls zigzagging and bouncing off each other, or everyone having similar base model (ex, Gundam SEED), its not worth it. See I too can play the game where each one of us gives bias generalization.

The point of animation is to 'bring life', its clear for the most part (remember I said 'most' not 'all') that Japanese animators aren't doing this. Really how hard is to admit that GLORIOUS NIPPON can't do everything.

Oh wait if your a Japanophile, that might explain why ...
1487 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / F
Offline
Posted 8/10/11 , edited 8/10/11

andydono
Wow talk about selective example... I'm going to take a wild guess you never even saw any animated DC/Marvel series.

o_O YOUR example was Spongebob so I was talking about Spongebob and cartoons like it as well.


Now your just making shit up, the main reason why animation in anime is crap is due to the fact they're often on a tight schedule with low budget, thus they'll have to cut corners to make the dead line as oppose to the American animators who often have bigger budget and more time for creative thinking/planning. The Japanese usually emphasis "quantity over quality" when it comes to anime (and even manga to an certain extent), don't know why your so butthurt about this old knowledge.

I'm not "making shit up". Anime characters and backgrounds ARE more detailed so it makes sense that all that detail would be hard to animate. And of course they don't have the money or time.
And where in my post do I sound "butthurt'?


Who cares how much detail it has

I do, sorry.


The point of animation is to 'bring life', its clear for the most part (remember I said 'most' not 'all') that Japanese animators aren't doing this.

Anime characters feel VERY real to me and it doesn't need to be through the actual animation. What they lack in that area, they completely make up for with character depth, personality, realism, and emotion.


Oh wait if your a Japanophile, that might explain why ...

That term is offensive in an anime forum so I advise you to not use it again with ANYONE and no, I'm not one of those people who goes "American stuff is CRAP!!"
Most of the kid's cartoons on today's television are crap though. I prefer the stuff from the 90s and early 2000s.


Really how hard is to admit that GLORIOUS NIPPON can't do everything.


GLORIOUS NIPPON can't do everything and neither can any other country. Just because I like Japanese culture and their products doesn't make it God's Kingdom. Japan has its own flaws, just like every place in the world does.
Posted 8/10/11
I noticed in one of the Futurama movies, everything hand-drawn was updated on alternating frames, but the post-processing effects (i.e. snow) were perfectly smooth. I think this is common practice, but it's hard to tell without buying the DVD and browsing a scene frame-by-frame.


the_song_of_anime wrote:
If you know what I'm talking about and you know other anime that have this kind of smooth fluid motion do please tell.


Yeah, it would be nice to have a list here.
11243 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
25 / M / BC, Canada =P
Offline
Posted 8/10/11 , edited 8/10/11

Chiibihime wrote:

o_O YOUR example was Spongebob so I was talking about Spongebob and cartoons like it as well.


Expect the one I gave is fact when it comes to animation, I'm not talking about character development, character depth, plot, plot progression, character design, artistic style, or scenery I'm addressing the QUALITY of its animation is better than more than half of Japanese cartoons.


I'm not "making shit up". Anime characters and backgrounds ARE more detailed so it makes sense that all that detail would be hard to animate. And of course they don't have the money or time.

Which is why Japanese cartoon animation are generally inferior to American cartoons.


And where in my post do I sound "butthurt'?


That looks pretty butthurt to me.


I do, sorry.

You didn't understand my point did you (T_T).


Anime characters feel VERY real to me and it doesn't need to be through the actual animation. What they lack in that area, they completely make up for with character depth, personality, realism, and emotion.

For the love of God, stop deluding opinions with facts. Fact is Japanese animated series often have inferior animation compare to American animated series. Having preference on one over the other is opinion, not fact.


That term is offensive in an anime forum so I advise you to not use it again with ANYONE and no, I'm not one of those people who goes "American stuff is CRAP!!"

The irony in this is that the weird general consensus here calling oneself a 'otaku' is considered positive, whereas in Japan its one of the highest form of insult.


Most of the kid's cartoons on today's television are crap though. I prefer the stuff from the 90s and early 2000s.

Now this here is something I agree with. Although there are still some good animated series, Young Justice/Batman The Brave and the Bold anyone?


GLORIOUS NIPPON can't do everything and neither can any other country. Just because I like Japanese culture and their products doesn't make it God's Kingdom. Japan has its own flaws, just like every place in the world does.

The hundreds upon hundreds of mindless Anime/manga worshipers disagrees with you, but at least I know your not one of them.
23034 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
17 / M / boys locker room
Offline
Posted 8/10/11 , edited 8/10/11


This made my day :]
44323 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / F
Offline
Posted 8/10/11 , edited 8/10/11
I'm surprised no one mentioned My Ordinary Life (Nichijou). The ridiculous sequences have pretty amazing animation, and the openings have some very fluid animation.

Also, FLCL and Gurren Lagann.
14294 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
28 / M
Offline
Posted 8/10/11
trololol
17344 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
M / Crapsack World
Offline
Posted 8/10/11
Ghibli films and other anime praised by Sakuga fags.
1487 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / F
Offline
Posted 8/10/11 , edited 8/10/11

andydono
That looks pretty butthurt to me.


It was a ridiculous statement, did you expect anything less? I recall another person reacting negatively to it too. I am sure that if you stuck with "Disney movies" people wouldn't be like WTF. But Spongebob?



Fact is Japanese animated series often have inferior animation compare to American animated series. Having preference on one over the other is opinion, not fact.

It's a fact, really? Can you actually prove this?


The irony in this is that the weird general consensus here calling oneself a 'otaku' is considered positive, whereas in Japan its one of the highest form of insult.

I very well know that but I would stick to what the people on this forum are comfortable with.



The hundreds upon hundreds of mindless Anime/manga worshipers disagrees with you, but at least I know your not one of them.


Um..............thanks, I guess. I did briefly go through the immature "EVERYTHING SUCKS COMPARED TO ANIME" stage...............but that was about thirteen years ago. I am older and wiser now. lol

2613 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19 / M / Hikarizaka
Offline
Posted 8/10/11
Clannad
Black rock shooter
Summer wars
I think Hantsuki had smooth animation.
1755 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
20 / M
Offline
Posted 8/11/11
##SELECTION_MARKER_0.3401566988690018####SELECTION_MARKER_0.3401566988690018##

Chiibihime wrote:


andydono
Wow talk about selective example... I'm going to take a wild guess you never even saw any animated DC/Marvel series.

o_O YOUR example was Spongebob so I was talking about Spongebob and cartoons like it as well.


Sorry, but Andy is right on this one. If you look at ANIMATION QUALITY, i.e. smoother and more frames, then definitely, something like Spongebob beats lots of anime. (NOT talking about the actual merits of the cartoon or anime here.)


Chiibihime wrote:


andydono Now your just making shit up, the main reason why animation in anime is crap is due to the fact they're often on a tight schedule with low budget, thus they'll have to cut corners to make the dead line as oppose to the American animators who often have bigger budget and more time for creative thinking/planning. The Japanese usually emphasis "quantity over quality" when it comes to anime (and even manga to an certain extent), don't know why your so butthurt about this old knowledge.


I'm not "making shit up". Anime characters and backgrounds ARE more detailed so it makes sense that all that detail would be hard to animate. And of course they don't have the money or time.
And where in my post do I sound "butthurt'?


I would say that both you and Andy are right, but wrong at the same time. And if you read it, the two of you are agreeing with each other... anyways,

The reason Japanese animation usually pales in comparison to American animation is indeed because of Budget and time restraints.

1. I wouldn’t say that they emphasise “quantity over quality”. If they cannot have the required amount of time, they do actually lose a LOT of money. And if the anime can’t be made in time, then the broadcasting company will actually TOSS the anime. As such, Japanese animators are stuck with low numbers of staff, detailed drawings, and tight time restraints. AMERICAN animators don’t have this problem because, bigger budget = more staff = more frames = smoother animation. (Again, I’m not saying that the cartoon is better overall. Simply in smoother animation style.)

Another reason is that Japanese anime production companies usually actually only draw the KEY ANIMATION, i.e. the main scenes. They then pass the scenes onto another company which then redraw the scenes with slight changes to make the animation smoother. Of course, there are both good and bad "Other" companies, and it really depends on how much they have to do, how much your budget is, and how much you can pay them.

Also @Andy, Chibiihime is right on the “Detail” part. You can have background drawers sometimes draw/paint a single background for days, while for something like Spongebob, (can’t really talk about DC etc. Cos I haven’t really watched any), you use the same backgrounds, or the less detailed backgrounds. Some anime out there actually rely on symbolism etc. in backgrounds to put a point across, or to hint to something further along the story.

2. @Chiibihime’s statement about detail – Surely, you do have parts where the backgrounds are much, much more detailed. But, as said above, your argument makes no sense. So what if the backgrounds are detailed? If the actual animation is crap, I’m not going to stare at the background thinking about how nice of an anime it is. ALSO, READ ABOVE 2 PARAGRAPHS ABOVE.

In short, it’s the ANIMATORS fault for making it so detailed.

Also, just so you know, for entertainment, I would take Panty and Stocking over Powerpuff girls any day. But if I was looking at CG and smooth animation, Powerpuff girls would come out on top... Except for the transformation scene... yeah. NOTE: Comparison because animation styles are similar.


andydono
The point of animation is to 'bring life', its clear for the most part (remember I said 'most' not 'all') that Japanese animators aren't doing this.

Anime characters feel VERY real to me and it doesn't need to be through the actual animation. What they lack in that area, they completely make up for with character depth, personality, realism, and emotion.

Chiibihime is wrong and is misunderstanding here. What Andy is saying is that the animation is meant to “bring the character to life”. He’s not talking about how realistic the character is, or how his emotions are so similar to that of a human. He’s simply talking about how the animation should “Bring the character to life, as though you were watching a movie with real actors.”

Damn, it’s hard to put it into words... When you get it, you’ll get it.

My own opinion here, but for entertainment purposes, I would pick Anime over Western cartoons any day (from the ones I’ve seen, at least). But that’s not to say that Western cartoons don’t have their own merits.

Also, to the ignorant general populace,


andydono The irony in this is that the weird general consensus here calling oneself a 'otaku' is considered positive, whereas in Japan its one of the highest form of insult.


This is totally true. Although I wouldn’t call it the “highest form” it has a huge stigma attatched to it. Link here - http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/lexicon.php?id=22

Back on topic,

There's FLCL, Gurren Lagann, last ep of Seto no Hanayome, Action scenes in Darker than Black, FMA BH.

I think Fate/Stay Night actually had pretty good fight scenes, especially the movie, although as an anime it wasn't that great.

It's really hard to tell "smooth animation", because most anime get a "Quality Bump" during action scenes and final fight scenes. And, as said above, your movies and OVAs general have much better animation.

NOTE HERE!!! - This happenes in a lot of SHAFT works. THere are some points with really, REALLY good animation, then after a while, because of budget etc. the animation quality drops to just acceptable. Examples are...
1487 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
32 / F
Offline
Posted 8/11/11 , edited 8/11/11

SkylarkAnime Chiibihime is wrong and is misunderstanding here.

Misunderstanding aside, I am not wrong in my statement.


He’s simply talking about how the animation should “Bring the character to life, as though you were watching a movie with real actors.”

And I'M saying the animation does that for me. It's not like real actors move around HALF as much as American cartoon characters so I think that's a pretty poor comparison. Anime characters stand still a lot more or slowly walk around and just talk much more like real people do.

Honestly, I feel this whole argument is bogus. I don't really see anything "inferior" in the animation of high quality anime series (I mean stuff above Pokemon) compared to American animation. Maybe someone can pull in a few .GIF examples and explain it better? Because I'm really not getting it. Because there are less frames being used? What? The only thing I've noticed is that American cartoon characters move their lips into different shapes when they talk as opposed to anime characters "lip flap". But that's the only thing I've noticed.
465 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
19 / F / Wonderland
Offline
Posted 8/11/11
Angel Beats...?
58670 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Dallas, TX
Online
Posted 8/11/11 , edited 8/11/11
Usually called "sakuga" in Japan, you can quite a few examples on YouTube just by searching the term, including monthly videos of the best sakuga. For example: July.

The history is fairly interesting, too.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.