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Anime with a "smooth" animation?
Posted 8/11/11
I guess... the scenes during game play in Giant Killing.
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Posted 8/11/11

Chiibihime wrote:



SkylarkAnimeHe’s simply talking about how the animation should “Bring the character to life, as though you were watching a movie with real actors.”

And I'M saying the animation does that for me. It's not like real actors move around HALF as much as American cartoon characters so I think that's a pretty poor comparison. Anime characters stand still a lot more or slowly walk around and just talk much more like real people do.

Honestly, I feel this whole argument is bogus. I don't really see anything "inferior" in the animation of high quality anime series (I mean stuff above Pokemon) compared to American animation. Maybe someone can pull in a few .GIF examples and explain it better? Because I'm really not getting it. Because there are less frames being used? What? The only thing I've noticed is that American cartoon characters move their lips into different shapes when they talk as opposed to anime characters "lip flap". But that's the only thing I've noticed.


Look, what you are saying is that anime characters have more personality, depth, etc. in comparison to American cartoons e.g. Spongebob. In that, I completely agree. It's because of the style of anime and the target audience. But that's all completely off topic.

But the topic of this argment is how animation in anime is generally inferior to American cartoons.

If you have more frames, the animation will obviously become smoother. Animation is made by pictures/frames placed in the same second. Anime generally has a lower frame per second rate then american cartoons, because of budget, time and staffing problems. The more frames you can afford to make in the same second, the smoother you animation gets.

As an example, Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, had about 22000 frames, (i think) in episode 11. The animation in that episode was very, very smooth, because they stuffed loads of frames into a second. But because of that, they ended using more then half their budget just getting up to that episode.

Also, if people pulled out some .gifs, it won't make you understand any better, because the fps is changed when converted to gif.

Finally, exactly what kind of american cartoons are you watching? And how long ago did you lkast watch something like that? Sure, there are anime that surpass american cartoons in animation smoothness, i.e. Pokemon easily surpasses something like South Park.

But if you compare a high-budget anime to a high-budget american cartoon, the cartoon obviously comes out on top, in terms of fps and animation quality and smoothness.

Although anime in Japan has gotten a lot smoother as of the last few years, because more interest in anime overseas=more money=more budget=more staff=more frames. Also, technological advances have helped a lot.
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Posted 8/11/11
I'd say Eden of the East.
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Posted 8/12/11

SkylarkAnime

Finally, exactly what kind of american cartoons are you watching? And how long ago did you lkast watch something like that?


Well, since he was comparing it to Spongebob, I thought about the animation in that show and I can't really think of ANY scenes where the animation is superior. Rather I keep thinking how much more fluid anime is next to it. o_o

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Posted 8/12/11
Thank you all for giving me some input.
I tend to like anime with smooth animation, because it usually means the director/author is willing to take a risk on a story (s)he thinks is going to successful and any lesser animation sequences just won't do.

However, that's not to say an anime that is badly animated can't be good. A prime example: Kemonozume. Absolutely the worst animation I have ever seen, it's still in my top 10 though.

Genre has a lot to do with how well the animation needs to be. Any type of fighting/action really needs to step it up a notch. Sure a romance can get away with very detailed hair blowing in the wind, but not Bleach... Naruto... One Piece. That's why I was hoping you guys could give me an alternative to this mess of bad fighting scenes in anime.
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Posted 8/14/11

Chiibihime wrote:


SkylarkAnime

Finally, exactly what kind of american cartoons are you watching? And how long ago did you lkast watch something like that?


Well, since he was comparing it to Spongebob, I thought about the animation in that show and I can't really think of ANY scenes where the animation is superior. Rather I keep thinking how much more fluid anime is next to it. o_o



How long ago was it that you last watched it? And how narrow is your anime range?

Comparing Spongebob to anime in general, Spongebob has much more fluid animation than anime. And it's not just during animation bumps, it's all the time.

By that, I mean that it doesn't only have some very good moment of animation, like anime, where their battles are higher quality then others, but OVERALL, Spongebob's animation is much more smoother and fluid then anime.

If you've only been watching new seasons and high-budget anime, then you probably wouldn't notice this, because it HAS been getting much better as of late. BUT those anime are actually only a small amount of the total anime that actually exists.

As I said before, in anime with AN EQUIVALENT BUDGET to cartoons, e.g. high budget anime compared to high budget cartoon, the animation is much, MUCH worse than the cartoon.

Also, what you said before, even if you have lip sync, that's already part of the qualities which push the "animation quality" to the next level.




@the_song_of_anime, I think Rurouni Kenshin had good "animation" but it wasn't necessarily smooth. As in, they paid attention to detail, but they didn't make it as smooth as it could have been. Although Ruouni Kenshin is getting BD remastered, so it's probably going to get better.

Some others I could recommend for "smooth" animation (don't blame me if they're not, watched them a while ago, can't remember properly) is... CANAAN, Valykrie Chornicles, To Aru series + spinoffs (in some scenes).
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Posted 8/14/11
I personally think that Erin and Xam'd are smooth animation. While the animation of Moribito was awesome, I find Erin had equally good animation and thought it was awesome both come from the same woman.
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Posted 8/14/11


By 'smooth', are you also reffering to a fluid-like transition from one scene to another, hence, Samurai Shamploo's fight sequence? I believe Shippuden had it's fair moments of that, like with (spoiler?) Pain vs. Naruto (bit of a spoiler).

Otherwise, I think it's a matter of preference. I personally like anime that comes to life in it's visual style. Although, Usagi Drop portrays a great storyline with an otherwise simplistic visual end. Very beautiful anime that Usagi Drop is.

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Posted 8/15/11

SkylarkAnime How long ago was it that you last watched it?


Literally a couple weeks ago. I'm finding it less and less easy to tolerate though...


And how narrow is your anime range?

Extremely wide. I've seen everything from every genre, from almost every era. (nothing from the 60s though)


Comparing Spongebob to anime in general, Spongebob has much more fluid animation than anime. And it's not just during animation bumps, it's all the time.



Again, HOW, WHY AND WHICH PARTS?



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Posted 8/15/11
Tegami Bachi and Soul Eater have relatively "smooth" animation...
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Posted 8/16/11
time of eve
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Posted 8/18/11 , edited 8/18/11

Chiibihime wrote:



Again, HOW, WHY AND WHICH PARTS?





Spongebob Squarepants is a "low budget" cartoon, by Nickelodeon. Now compare it to other low budget anime.

Can you say that something like Zetsubou, or even Naruto's first few eps could compare to that animation?


EDIT: You could also include in that the other two of "The Big Three", and pretty much all of SHAFT's works before Bakemono. I'm not too familiar with other studios, i.e. can't really remember what was good and bad from the particular studios, but SHAFT was definitely like that.

Also,
SHAFT might be able to say, "It's in the style", or "Because it's SHAFT, it's fine". But it all comes down to Akiyuki Shinbo's style developing from low budget restrictions which meant he had to put loads of stills rather then moving animation rather because he couldn't get it to a point where he was satisfied enough with moving pics.(Although I do think that, "Because it's SHAFT, it's fine", because the works they make are actually good nonetheless).

Taking Naruto as an example, it was filled with bad (as in not smooth) animation. A lot of movements were unsmooth, etc. until around Shippuden, when they revamped the art and animation style.
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Posted 8/18/11 , edited 8/18/11

SkylarkAnime wrote:


Chiibihime wrote:



Again, HOW, WHY AND WHICH PARTS?





Spongebob Squarepants is a "low budget" cartoon, by Nickelodeon. Now compare it to other low budget anime.

Can you say that something like Zetsubou, or even Naruto's first few eps could compare to that animation?


EDIT: You could also include in that the other two of "The Big Three", and pretty much all of SHAFT's works before Bakemono. I'm not too familiar with other studios, i.e. can't really remember what was good and bad from the particular studios, but SHAFT was definitely like that.

Also,
SHAFT might be able to say, "It's in the style", or "Because it's SHAFT, it's fine". But it all comes down to Akiyuki Shinbo's style developing from low budget restrictions which meant he had to put loads of stills rather then moving animation rather because he couldn't get it to a point where he was satisfied enough with moving pics.(Although I do think that, "Because it's SHAFT, it's fine", because the works they make are actually good nonetheless).

Taking Naruto as an example, it was filled with bad (as in not smooth) animation. A lot of movements were unsmooth, etc. until around Shippuden, when they revamped the art and animation style.


So.......you're just saying Spongebob "moves around" a lot more? Isn't this just the matter of quantity over quality?
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Posted 8/21/11

Chiibihime wrote:


So.......you're just saying Spongebob "moves around" a lot more? Isn't this just the matter of quantity over quality?


Ok, let's go over the basics again. Read it carefully please.

The "smoothness" and "quality" of the animation is determined by how many frames the animators put into a second. Each frame consists of a miniscule change from the previous, (e.g. a hand/leg moves a pixel in a direction).

Of course, high fps doesn't mean anything if your frames are drawn with major differences, (e.g. the hand/leg in question is a millimetre or two in each frame). Although you wouldn't be able to see it (because it would fly across the screen in less than a second), if you slowed down the frames, the body part would "jump" across the screen, i.e. it wouldn't be smooth.

On the other hand, low fps doesn't mean that a low fps means roughly animated cartoons/anime - e.g. A very slow scene, or a stopped scene, would have low, or no frames, but could still be smooth.

But generally, the more frames you have in a second means that your animation is smoother, as long as your frames are drawn with only minute differences.


Anime/cartoons are made in many different stages, but the key ones in this argument are "Key animation" and "In-Between animation".

Key animation is exactly what it sounds like. The producing company creates/draws the "Key" frames. These dictate where and how characters/objects move, and how fast the character/object will move.

In-between animation is done by taking these Key frames and drawing "in-between" frames to make the animation smoother. In anime, at least, and especially the lower budget companies and their anime, This is NOT done by the companies. Instead, they hire companies which specialise in "in-between" animation, which work while the main staff does key frames etc.

Now, taking this into account, you have anime, which, compared to american cartoons, generally a much lower budget. As such, this creates a lack of staff, and this in turn creates time constraints.

Lower budget also sometimes means that the companies hired to do in-between animation are lower quality than it could be, resulting in hob-jobs and badly drawn in-between frames.


In american cartoons, which have a larger budget compared to Japanese anime, you can have more staff to create more "key frames", which means that the "in-between animators" have a much clearer idea of what to do. It also means that more quality staff can be hired in the "in-between" animation section, meaning more frames can be drawn with more miniscule changes, resulting in smoother animation.


In short, budget is the most affecting factor, because of the number and quality of staff that you can hire. However, this has been less of a problem, with the advent of new technologies and development of computer programs.


Of course, I'm not saying that cartoons are superior to anime in terms of storyline, character development, etc. I'm simply saying that cartoons have smoother animation, generally, especially when compared to anime with a relative budget, i.e. low-budget cartoon compared with low-budget anime (it's actually very, very different).
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Posted 8/21/11

SkylarkAnime


Of course, I'm not saying that cartoons are superior to anime in terms of storyline, character development, etc. I'm simply saying that cartoons have smoother animation, generally, especially when compared to anime with a relative budget, i.e. low-budget cartoon compared with low-budget anime (it's actually very, very different).


That's great and all but I STILL can't tell the difference in smoothness when just observing the two. I don't know how others can.
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