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Americans; Anime v Cartoons
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49 / F / Center of the Uni...
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Posted 8/21/11

LilyXMaximum wrote:

Anime=Awesomeness!! Cartoons=Crap.



Personal value judgments. The reason you think Cartoon is an insult is you. Get over yourself. you'll be happier.

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Posted 8/21/11

woodroward wrote:

While we do have words in English that share similar meanings, that doesn't mean you can swap them in and out as you please, even when a thesaurus tells you you can.

For instance calling a proud man arrogant isn't exactly wrong, but it is insulting.
You can say that the dictionary says it fits and denotatively you'd be right.
But any really meaningful conversation won't rely on denotative definitions, only connotative.
Connotatively in the minds of fans anime means serious animation and cartoon means light animation (leaving aside the regional part of the definition for the moment).
Bearing this in mind it would be easy to say that all cartoons are anime, but not all anime are cartoons.
It's something similar to saying that a ford and a chevy are both cars. Which is true. But if you call someone's ford a chevy you might get in some trouble.


Again it's the ford owner putting a value judgement on his car. 'Ford is teh Awesome!' 'Chevy sucks.' if you mistakenly think his ford is a chevy he's going to be in your face asking why you're disrespecting him.

... but I'd argue that's more about the ford owner, than about your word choice. The ford owner needs to get over himself.



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Posted 8/21/11

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


LilyXMaximum wrote:

Anime=Awesomeness!! Cartoons=Crap.



Personal value judgments. The reason you think Cartoon is an insult is you. Get over yourself. you'll be happier.



This, tbh.
Avatar: The Last Airbender >>>>>>>> most anime these days.
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Posted 8/21/11

chrome_mist wrote:


papagolfwhiskey wrote:


LilyXMaximum wrote:

Anime=Awesomeness!! Cartoons=Crap.



Personal value judgments. The reason you think Cartoon is an insult is you. Get over yourself. you'll be happier.



This, tbh.
Avatar: The Last Airbender >>>>>>>> most anime these days.


Airbender is definitely worth watching and I look forward to the sequel that's been promised. I still find plenty of anime I enjoy though. I won't get into 'my show is more cool than your show' thought. Doing so would defeat the purpose of my point.
bosa_j 
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Posted 8/21/11 , edited 8/21/11
I find both awesome. They are both animation. The only difference is that most american cartoons are episodic, while anime tends to follow a larger storyline. Nuff' said.

There are of course exceptions to the rule on both sides (Gintama=episodic, Avatar=storyline, etc.), but I feel like both sort of follow these motifs on a certain fundamental level.
tinnic 
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Posted 8/21/11 , edited 8/21/11
Well I don't know about others but the reason I distinguish between anime and a cartoon is because the term "cartoon" has specific cultural connotations that I don't believe always applies to animes (or many western "cartoons" even but that's another discussion). Cartoons implies we are dealing with Bugs Bunny, Mickey Mouse and their friends getting-up to hilarious hijinks! It is not what I think of when I think "Ghost in the shell" or any of the myriad of other anime title you would not sit an 8 year old in front of.

If you say cartoon, people will immediately get ideas that may or may not actually apply to the title in question. That alone is reason enough to not use the term cartoon when talking about Japanese animation. To put it another way, to me its the difference between calling something a comic or a graphic novel. I would not call The Watchmen a comic under any circumstances simply because the cultural connotations associated with comics do not apply to The Watchmen.
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Posted 8/21/11

tinnic wrote:

Well I don't know about others but the reason I distinguish between anime and a cartoon is because the term "cartoon" has specific cultural connotations that I don't believe always applies to animes (or many western "cartoons" even but that's another discussion). Cartoons implies we are dealing with Bugs Bunny, Mickey Mouse and their friends getting-up to hilarious hijinks! It is not what I think of when I think "Ghost in the shell" or any of the myriad of other anime title you would not sit an 8 year old in front of.

If you say cartoon, people will immediately get ideas that may or may not actually apply to the title in question. That alone is reason enough to not use the term cartoon when talking about Japanese animation. To put it another way, to me its the difference between calling something a comic or a graphic novel. I would not call The Watchmen a comic under any circumstances simply because the cultural connotations associated with comics do not apply to The Watchmen.


Ah yes! the Watchmen. The literary watershed that made the pundits announce 'Comics Have Grown Up!' Never mind that the perpetual 'childhood' of American comic books was the result of the censorship and top down direction of the Comics Code.

Sorry but the Watchmen is a Comic Book. It was first published in comic book format and sold right along side superman and wonder woman and those pesky mutant ninja turtles. (I know, I was buying some of those titles back then. Watchmen I waited for the graphic novel format)

again what you call 'cultural considerations' I call 'value judgements':

'Comics and Cartoons' =kiddy stuff grown ups should be ashamed of watching.
'Graphic Novels and Anime'=COOL hardcore Not-for-Kids Big Boy/Girl stuff.

they are only meaningful if you buy into them. If someone else can't get over them, that's hardly your problem is it?

tinnic 
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Posted 8/21/11 , edited 8/21/11
Firstly, I said "cultural connotation" and that in itself does imply a "value judgement" because "culture" is associated with values and interpretation of those values. So what's your point exactly? What I am saying however, is that whether adults read it or not, the implication is that comics and cartoons are meant primarily for kids. So if you call something a "comic" or "cartoon", just by calling it that you give the impression that it falls under that category and thus is appropriate for kids. I don't want to give that impression when the content of something is not age appropriate.

Not all anime is "cool" (one of the most overused and subject terms in the entire history of the English language IMO), "hardcore" and most animes are meant for kids. However, some are not appropriate for children due to the nature of their content. But the average Joe on the streets is unlikely to realise this if you call something a "cartoon". Cartoon = automatically for kids regardless of content in the minds of the average westerner. To me this is misleading. That's why I maintain a distinction between Japanese produced animation that can include material primarily focused at adults and western produced animation which, due to decades of catering just to kids, is viewed as such.

When the time comes that western produced not-for-kids animation such as Harvey Birdman Attorney becomes widely known and it is understood by the average Joe on the street that just because something is called a "cartoon", doesn't automatically make it "family friendly" - I'll not care whether you call something an anime or cartoon. But as long as the cultural connotation exist that cartoons is for kids, I will continue to make the distinction.

You can go on about it being "someone else problem" or "not being meaningful if you don't buy into them" but you would be wrong. YOU don't define what culture is. The society at large defines what the culture of said society is and in western society, comics and cartoon = kiddy stuff. So when have something that resembles a comic or a cartoon but is not meant for kids, you have either come-up with a new term for it until such time as the old term expands its meaning in the cultural lexicon or risk it being accessed by kids when it is not supposed to be and face the consequences that result (usually censorship).

Now whether you choose to be shamed by society/your culture for liking My Little Pony is your business entirely. I personally believe that animes, cartoons, comics and graphic novels are often far superior to many of the drivel that is supposed to be for "grown-ups". So despite what you are implying in your post, I assure you that I don't make the distinction to justify my personal tastes, I do it because it is culturally necessarily due to the meaning currently prescribed to "comics" and "cartoon".
The Wise Wizard
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Posted 8/21/11

Greylurker wrote:
but the Anime we see is Filtered to us. A lot of the Crap just doesn't come over here and gets ignored by both Fansubbers and Professional companies, because it's recognized as crap.

There is a lot less filtering than even a few years ago. Crunchyroll, for example, is well known for "getting what it can".

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26 / M / Slovakia
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Posted 8/21/11
Bcuz theyre retarted.
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Posted 8/21/11

erisi236 wrote:

Eh, they're both drawn by the same Koreans anyway *shrug*



Fuck yourself.
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Posted 8/21/11

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


woodroward wrote:

While we do have words in English that share similar meanings, that doesn't mean you can swap them in and out as you please, even when a thesaurus tells you you can.

For instance calling a proud man arrogant isn't exactly wrong, but it is insulting.
You can say that the dictionary says it fits and denotatively you'd be right.
But any really meaningful conversation won't rely on denotative definitions, only connotative.
Connotatively in the minds of fans anime means serious animation and cartoon means light animation (leaving aside the regional part of the definition for the moment).
Bearing this in mind it would be easy to say that all cartoons are anime, but not all anime are cartoons.
It's something similar to saying that a ford and a chevy are both cars. Which is true. But if you call someone's ford a chevy you might get in some trouble.


Again it's the ford owner putting a value judgement on his car. 'Ford is teh Awesome!' 'Chevy sucks.' if you mistakenly think his ford is a chevy he's going to be in your face asking why you're disrespecting him.

... but I'd argue that's more about the ford owner, than about your word choice. The ford owner needs to get over himself.




eh
I'd say it's something more along the lines of being able to use tact.
As I was saying in any meaningful conversation connotative definitions are WAAAAAAAAAAAAY more important than denotative ones.
In other words the value that the ford owner put on his car is a much more realistic value than anyone who doesn't own it could place.
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Posted 8/21/11
Not too many years ago, it was genuinely difficult to get a translated anime or manga series. Things have definitely changed since the days when fans traded Star Trek tapes for 11th generation Ranma 1/2 or Dirty Pair tapes. These days, fans can get decent subtitled versions of televised shows on the day after they're broadcast.

Of course, a lot depends on your point of view. For instance, consider Rurouni Kenshin. I still have some of the old swear-laden VHS tapes from Shinsengumi Fansubs. I also have some genuine DVDs. And I hear the series eventually turned up on Cartoon Network, but I could be mistaken.


tinnic wrote:
...Now whether you choose to be shamed by society/your culture for liking My Little Pony is your business entirely.


As for myself, I've watched a few episodes of Friendship is Magic, and enjoyed them. I'm not sure if I should be proud of that fact.


tinnic wrote:
I personally believe that animes, cartoons, comics and graphic novels are often far superior to many of the drivel that is supposed to be for "grown-ups".


I've often been inclined to believe that being an adult means fixating on money, only watching very serious TV shows/movies, ignoring anything drawn or animated, and being very suspicious of electronic games. It seems strange to think that other adults might enjoy any interests besides prose and traditional card games. I try to question these negative beliefs, but at the same time I wonder if the act of questioning means that I'm not a mature person.
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31 / M / Flavour Country
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Posted 8/21/11

Xanxus-san wrote:


erisi236 wrote:

Eh, they're both drawn by the same Koreans anyway *shrug*



Fuck yourself.


Are you trying to say Koreans don't work on lots of Animes/Cartoons? Cuz you'd be really really wrong.

Here, have some "Anime"

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Posted 8/21/11
They are both cartoons. Cartoons being a slang term for animation. Deal with it.
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