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Kamisama Dolls: The Hatred for Senou Chihaya - sexism or shallowness?
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Posted 8/19/11

Sakura-chan73 wrote:

Okay I'll give this a whirl I think its sexism because if the teacher was a male and he had sex with a female student who would be blamed? the student right? cuz she would be considered a slut...........


interesting thing is: No Students Were Sexed.

the unmarried woman had an affair or maybe just a one-night-stand with an unmarried man.

Then she had sex with a boy who in no way could be described as her student.

two acts of sex, not counting however many men participated in her gang rape.

But I think you're right had the gender roles been reversed people would have been going on about 'what a player' the teacher character was... and they probably would have been more offended about his being raped.

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Posted 8/19/11

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


munchthis wrote:



I see we are in agreement.
Mostly anyway.



I ain't that kind of deep person, don't really watch stuff with such a heavy atmosphere and had to let this episode sit in for a day before it really hit me. to answer your question that you edited in, I feel that its probably both sexism and shallowness that drives those kinda comments. I can't say that I approve of
but to me that doesn't make her a villain, criminal perhaps depending on the laws, but nothing heinous like she ate her own baby and certainly not to deserve what happened to her.
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Posted 8/19/11


Again I think we are in agreement. Of course it could be that most of the commentators just didn't even give it any thought. it is just an anime after all.
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Posted 8/19/11
All in all, she wasn't a terrible person by any means nor was she an innocent bystander that got caught up in the situation. She knew Aki was bad news. They told her to stay away from him and she chose to get involved with him. I feel bad for Kyohei because he never could tell her how he felt about her.
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Posted 8/19/11

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Sakura-chan73 wrote:

Okay I'll give this a whirl I think its sexism because if the teacher was a male and he had sex with a female student who would be blamed? the student right? cuz she would be considered a slut...........


interesting thing is: No Students Were Sexed.

the unmarried woman had an affair or maybe just a one-night-stand with an unmarried man.

Then she had sex with a boy who in no way could be described as her student.

two acts of sex, not counting however many men participated in her gang rape.

But I think you're right had the gender roles been reversed people would have been going on about 'what a player' the teacher character was... and they probably would have been more offended about his being raped.


Exactly my point. True Aki wasn't one of her students but if he actually went to school he would be considered a student and a minor no less and I do understand the past she had with the unmarried man that she regretted so much. I know the blame gets pointed to her about why Aki is the way he is now and that's nonsense! if you want to blame someone for his behavior blame the village for not helping her in the first place when she cried for help.

The point I guess I'm trying to make is we all have something in our past that we regret or want to forget. No one is perfect. So just because she has had a shady past doesn't mean she's a slut for life. People try to make amends for what they have done in the past right? well I should say most people since I don't know if everyone would make amends.
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Posted 8/19/11

YuSooKey wrote:

All in all, she wasn't a terrible person by any means nor was she an innocent bystander that got caught up in the situation. She knew Aki was bad news. They told her to stay away from him and she chose to get involved with him. I feel bad for Kyohei because he never could tell her how he felt about her.


you would have a point if they'd said anything else to her of value. They also told her that Seki had special authority and she KNEW it was bad news to defy one of them. Does that make her choice, to slap Atsushi in the face irresponsible as well? She didn't get involved with Aki until the village pretty much left with Aki and a Callow Puppy Dog Kyohei to talk to. And I'm sure if she'd gotten closer to him instead things would have gone south for her in a similar fashion.

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Posted 8/19/11 , edited 8/19/11

papagolfwhiskey wrote:


Laharlt wrote:

I don't think she deserved what happened to her but I don't think she was the most respectable woman either. She probably should have quit being a teacher after the incident with her student's dad as she obviously can't keep her feelings in control. Aside from firing her from being a teacher the village's and especially Atsushi's treatment of her was wrong and I think Atsushi and his gang got what they deserved in the end.


I'm not sure I agree with you.

let me be specific: I DO agree with about Atsushi being in the wrong and frankly I don't shed any tears over his death (mind you I have thing against bullies)

I also AGREE that she was, in your words, "(Not)the most respectable woman". However, for me it was her relations with Aki that crossed the line.

I DISAGREE that her actions in the back story merited her expulsion or retirement from teaching. Her 'obvious' failure to control her emotions was not so obvious to me. I think that once it became an incident with a kid in the hospital and their affair quite public, It was understandable that she had really pitiful job prospects. Understanding is not the same as agreeing that it represents justice or moral rectitude however, I also believe that compared to many people in a number of professions (including teachers) her principal crime was getting caught.



Teachers especially in Japan are supposed to have integrity and be able to uphold it though. If she did end up in an actual relationship with her student's father then she could be accused of abusing her position as teacher in order give special treatment or alter grades in favor of the student whose father she is seeing. I say she couldn't keep her feelings in control because she ended up doing things that she knew she shouldn't be doing. The incident with Aki is a perfect example of why she shouldn't have been teaching anymore as Aki could have been one of her students and she probably would have still slept with him and if Aki wasn't there then she could have eventually found another student or kid like Aki and ended up having a relationship with them. I'm not saying shes a bad person but I just don't think teaching should be her thing. I don't really get why people would say she deserved what she got though. She may be the catalyst for the beginning of the story but she wasn't a horrible or evil person and its not like she was trying to set off this tragic chain of events. I've seen a lot of bad female anime characters much much worse than her so I would hardly say she was a "bitch" or deserved to die.


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Posted 8/19/11

Sakura-chan73 wrote:

Exactly my point. True Aki wasn't one of her students but if he actually went to school he would be considered a student and a minor no less and I do understand the past she had with the unmarried man that she regretted so much. I know the blame gets pointed to her about why Aki is the way he is now and that's nonsense! if you want to blame someone for his behavior blame the village for not helping her in the first place when she cried for help.

The point I guess I'm trying to make is we all have something in our past that we regret or want to forget. No one is perfect. So just because she has had a shady past doesn't mean she's a slut for life. People try to make amends for what they have done in the past right? well I should say most people since I don't know if everyone would make amends.


I agree with you here. This is way I listed her first 'crime' as the one of standing up to Atsushi. All others followed from that. You could argue she should have been thankful she had a job to go to in the village given her past. But conversely the village was obviously no plumb assignment if someone they knew was so 'tainted' was the best they could do. Pots and kettles should be careful about describing each other as black.

It was the Atsushi and/or the village elders, trying to put her in her place that dredged up that past she was trying to put behind her and portrayed in the most damning light they could. Assholes the lot of them.

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Posted 8/19/11 , edited 8/19/11

Laharlt wrote:




I come from a family of teachers, you don't have to explain to me the bullshit they go through for the sake of appearances. However, its exactly that. BULLLSHIT for the sake of APPEARANCES. there is no higher moral ground or standard of integrety. Her only crime in the back story was getting Caught. She fell afoul of politics then and arguably in the village. She screwed up. She screwed up in a way that would cost many a teacher their job, but I disagree that in anyway she proved that she didn't have what it takes to be a teacher. Aki was different deal and I've never tried to be an apologist for it.

and as I said before I agree with you about everything else.

Posted 8/20/11 , edited 8/20/11
For the love of Christ, It's just an anime. The characters are nothing more than the representation of the author's imagination. I would have actual sympathy if the comments were directed at a human being, but I can't find myself caring over ones that were directed towards a 2D character that technically doesn't exists.
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Posted 8/20/11

LosingOrbit wrote:

For the love of Christ, It's just an anime. The characters are nothing more than the representation of the author's imagination. I would have actual sympathy if the comments were directed at a human being, but I can't find myself caring over ones that were directed towards a 2D character that technically doesn't exists.


Granted, I'd be very offended if we were commenting on a news story or similar real world narrative and encountered such bigotry against someone I considered a friend.

Granted also it is 'just a show'

I could argue that good art evokes sympathy for it's subjects. That the best stories make take you along for the ride because you like or at least empathize with the characters. I think it would be a valid argument. However, my point isn't about sympathy for an imaginary character.

Yes, it's random statements about two-dee characters sure... It still, to me, reflects a series of disturbingly sexist opinions. Nor do I like 'blame the victim' arguments that I see imbedded in these admittedly truncated comments. It makes me wonder, are these comments just throwaway shallow idiocy or does it reflect a deeper paradigm of sexism and hypocrisy?

I don't often start threads. Even when I was a regular contributor to ED, I didn't. This time around I felt like finding out. I don't see why that's a crime?
Posted 8/20/11

What the...honesty...
People's enslavement to the "Double standard"
and lack of understanding and open-mindedness makes me wanna cry.
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Posted 8/20/11 , edited 8/20/11
Can't speak for the rest of the would and wouldn't be presumptions enough to try. From a personal point of view the fact that she is female is irrelevant. If the person in question was male my opinion of them would be just as negative.


That being said I didn't bother to comment on the episode at all, didn't really see the point. Ignorant comments are pretty much to be expected, though. I gave up any hope of most people even being mildly mature, let alone intelligent, with what they post a long time ago.
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Posted 8/21/11

Tanrim wrote:

Can't speak for the rest of the would and wouldn't be presumptions enough to try. From a personal point of view the fact that she is female is irrelevant. If the person in question was male my opinion of them would be just as negative.


That being said I didn't bother to comment on the episode at all, didn't really see the point. Ignorant comments are pretty much to be expected, though. I gave up any hope of most people even being mildly mature, let alone intelligent, with what they post a long time ago.


This is the most rational argument for the other point of view that I've seen.


Anyhow... I don't completely disagree with you. and see the justice of you points even though I would put a different interpretation on them. From your last comment I assume you don't mind if I mark you down as believing 'shallowness' is the answer to my final question?


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Posted 8/21/11
I dropped this. Are the new episodes.... good?
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