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Eeeh... this is for real? I'm pretty disappointed too (at least it should work), but reaction like this is shocking. Come on! Cool down... yeah, if this is prize for our hard work, it feels like they are freaking kidding us, but what changes with quarreling? Nothing. So, let's bear with it...
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@TatsukiTakatsuki: Never thought you could actually kept that hidden for 3 months hahaha.


Anyway, this is going to be a wall of text, but I want everybody to read it.


Remember guys, this is the internet. Some people amps their emotions to eleven and flame baits others for various reasons.
Even so, if you put a summary of Tatsuki's message and troll manga, pull off all the swear words, and change the aggressive tone into a sensical argument, I'll have to say that I do not find much to disagree with Tatsuki's points, which are:
- Us, English Comipo! users, has received less than satisfactory customer service from the Comipo! staff, as seen in how contests were handled, prizes information and giving from said contests, and how informations about what and when updates will be were handled.
- There are quite a bit of Comipo users, especially newcomers, that turn up comics with little regards of techniques and proper comic making (this is understandable, as most Comipo! users did not study comic making or graphic design), which might have hurt the credibility of Comipo! for other comic makers.

What I disagree is that, rather than mocking the company and other users, I'd say that this is the time for us English Comipo! users to band together and strive for the good of the software and our community.

We need to tell and show what we did not like about our treatment as a customer, and perhaps even offer examples or help to them (not with hostile actions though, those never end up good for the company nor the customers). A fellow member have told me that maybe we should hold a contest of our own. I liked that idea. Contests definitely brings live to the community's productivity, and we can show the company how contests should be done.

There is also the issue of our new "premium items". On one side, seeing how free items on the Japanese ver. became paid items on the English ver. is mindboggling. On the other side, as KrimsonGray mentioned, the combined price of said items with the software is still cheaper than the price of the software in Japan.
I'd say that both points are valid, but I will point out that we as customers were never told that these items that we're expecting for free are going to be sold with a price. That will inevitably draw some ire from customers, even including the contest winners, as they had to wait roughly a month after submitting their entry to know whether they won or not, and another month to know (and get, maybe) what their prizes are, which is not what most of them expected to be. I'm not saying that announcing what the prizes are earlier would remove all negativity about it, but it definitely won't get as much heat as this one. "Surprising" your customers aren't always a good idea, dear Comipo! staffs.

For the newcomers or those that lacked technique and knowledge, we can give them helps and tutorials on the basics of comic making, what is recommended and what should be avoided. I know this might seem arrogant, especially since the helps and tutorials might come from others that haven't studied comic making themselves (I know I didn't), but it is crucial for our community to have a standard of what is at least acceptable, lest we be mocked by other comic makers again and not getting credibility as comic makers ourselves. I will make some tutorials in the future, and I welcome others to do the same, or give input on how they do things and their preferences. In fact, us Comipo! users, that have the first-hand knowledge of what Comipo! can and cannot do, should discuss this together, and put together techniques we can teach to every Comipo! users out there.

Thank you for those that beared with me and read this far . About this "getting together" stuff, I really recommend that each and every Comipo! users joins with the deviantArt's Comipo! group, as currently most English Comipo! activities are there, and it's pretty easy to navigate through each person's works.
Link: http://comipo-fc.deviantart.com/
And speaking of groups, after the new timeline look was implemented to Comipo!'s Facebook page, I think that page is ineffective to navigate through. Perhaps we should make a Facebook group for Comipo! ?

What do you say, fellow Comipo! users?
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Posted 4/1/12
I checked out the group, only to find out I joined October 17. I guess I really should use DeviantArt more.
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Posted 4/1/12

hiroy_raind wrote:

@TatsukiTakatsuki: Never thought you could actually kept that hidden for 3 months hahaha.


Anyway, this is going to be a wall of text, but I want everybody to read it.


Remember guys, this is the internet. Some people amps their emotions to eleven and flame baits others for various reasons.
Even so, if you put a summary of Tatsuki's message and troll manga, pull off all the swear words, and change the aggressive tone into a sensical argument, I'll have to say that I do not find much to disagree with Tatsuki's points, which are:
- Us, English Comipo! users, has received less than satisfactory customer service from the Comipo! staff, as seen in how contests were handled, prizes information and giving from said contests, and how informations about what and when updates will be were handled.
- There are quite a bit of Comipo users, especially newcomers, that turn up comics with little regards of techniques and proper comic making (this is understandable, as most Comipo! users did not study comic making or graphic design), which might have hurt the credibility of Comipo! for other comic makers.

What I disagree is that, rather than mocking the company and other users, I'd say that this is the time for us English Comipo! users to band together and strive for the good of the software and our community.

We need to tell and show what we did not like about our treatment as a customer, and perhaps even offer examples or help to them (not with hostile actions though, those never end up good for the company nor the customers). A fellow member have told me that maybe we should hold a contest of our own. I liked that idea. Contests definitely brings live to the community's productivity, and we can show the company how contests should be done.

There is also the issue of our new "premium items". On one side, seeing how free items on the Japanese ver. became paid items on the English ver. is mindboggling. On the other side, as KrimsonGray mentioned, the combined price of said items with the software is still cheaper than the price of the software in Japan.
I'd say that both points are valid, but I will point out that we as customers were never told that these items that we're expecting for free are going to be sold with a price. That will inevitably draw some ire from customers, even including the contest winners, as they had to wait roughly a month after submitting their entry to know whether they won or not, and another month to know (and get, maybe) what their prizes are, which is not what most of them expected to be. I'm not saying that announcing what the prizes are earlier would remove all negativity about it, but it definitely won't get as much heat as this one. "Surprising" your customers aren't always a good idea, dear Comipo! staffs.

For the newcomers or those that lacked technique and knowledge, we can give them helps and tutorials on the basics of comic making, what is recommended and what should be avoided. I know this might seem arrogant, especially since the helps and tutorials might come from others that haven't studied comic making themselves (I know I didn't), but it is crucial for our community to have a standard of what is at least acceptable, lest we be mocked by other comic makers again and not getting credibility as comic makers ourselves. I will make some tutorials in the future, and I welcome others to do the same, or give input on how they do things and their preferences. In fact, us Comipo! users, that have the first-hand knowledge of what Comipo! can and cannot do, should discuss this together, and put together techniques we can teach to every Comipo! users out there.

Thank you for those that beared with me and read this far . About this "getting together" stuff, I really recommend that each and every Comipo! users joins with the deviantArt's Comipo! group, as currently most English Comipo! activities are there, and it's pretty easy to navigate through each person's works.
Link: http://comipo-fc.deviantart.com/
And speaking of groups, after the new timeline look was implemented to Comipo!'s Facebook page, I think that page is ineffective to navigate through. Perhaps we should make a Facebook group for Comipo! ?

What do you say, fellow Comipo! users?




I wholeheartedly agree. And I do think everyone should join the Comipo! DeviantArt group. I know I'll join after I finish "Dive to Black". As for making a Facebook group, I don't see any harm in making one. So, why not?
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Posted 4/1/12

hiroy_raind wrote:

- There are quite a bit of Comipo users, especially newcomers, that turn up comics with little regards of techniques and proper comic making (this is understandable, as most Comipo! users did not study comic making or graphic design), which might have hurt the credibility of Comipo! for other comic makers.

For the newcomers or those that lacked technique and knowledge, we can give them helps and tutorials on the basics of comic making, what is recommended and what should be avoided. I know this might seem arrogant, especially since the helps and tutorials might come from others that haven't studied comic making themselves (I know I didn't), but it is crucial for our community to have a standard of what is at least acceptable, lest we be mocked by other comic makers again and not getting credibility as comic makers ourselves. I will make some tutorials in the future, and I welcome others to do the same, or give input on how they do things and their preferences. In fact, us Comipo! users, that have the first-hand knowledge of what Comipo! can and cannot do, should discuss this together, and put together techniques we can teach to every Comipo! users out there.


I support this...SO MUCH.
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Posted 4/2/12 , edited 4/2/12
Well, this is what we get for making assumptions lol.

On the FB front, before we go jumping the gun and creating a page for it I'm thinking it might be worth actually posting on there and letting them know that there are some people (I'm glad I'm not the only one) who are dissatisfied with the timeline layout, and hopefully if enough people support the idea we may get the layout changed back to how it was (assuming its possible to do so). That page contains a lot of very good information and links for the program, as well as providing us with news updates, so all things considered I think we would be better off petitioning for the layout to be reverted rather than abandoning the page completely.

Pretty much agree with everything else though. Although I'm not really worried about paying for items since I was already content with the idea when I purchased the program, making the DLC which is free to the Japanese need to be purchased for us is a bit of a low blow. They seem to forget that we are all already aware of what the Japanese program has and how much it costs, and that we are going to hold them to that standard. I'm thinking that the reason this may have occurred is in order to level the price field as a means of dissuading Japanese consumers from reverse importing, since the English version costs considerably less.

The level of official support for the english version dosent seem to be terribly high, so its pretty much going to the English user base to establish and continue the community effort. I'm definatly all for a community run competition since they always do bring out the best and most committed work . How do you guys want to go about that?

EDIT: Hmmm, seems like timeline is now compulsory for FB pages, since I just saw that my profile has been changed to it as well, despite the fact that I never changed it myself. Excuse me while I write the Facebook staff an angry email letting them know how much this new layout sucks.


Also, for those who have yet to buy the new DLC and are curious about the contents, a list:

3D Objects:
- Red and blue umbrella (4 objects)
- Candle (2 objects)
- Wash tub/ bowl (2 objects)
- Shinai (1 object)
- Soccer ball (1 object)
- Basketball (1 object)
- Toy hammer (1 object)
- Fireworks (3 objects)
- Crystal ball (1 object) (they spelled it wrong)
- Fishing rod (2 objects)
- Dog (14 objects)
- Pigeon (4 objects)
- Fish (1 object)
- Plants, (5 objects)
SUBTOTAL: 42 objects

2D objects:
- Exploding Fireworks (7 objects)
- Angled Fences(5 objects)
- Tone (2 objects) (its an overlay made of lots of little dots)
- Lines (10 objects)
- Plants (9 objects)
- Expressions (8 objects)
- Water, reflections and ripples (7 objects)

SUBTOTAL: 48 objects

Backgrounds
- Hallways (8 objects)
- Shoelocker (11 objects)
- Staircase (6 objects)
- School Roof (12 objects)
- School Gate (9 objects)
- Pool area (4 objects)

SUBTOTAL: 50 Objects
TOTAL: 140 objects (there's the chance I may have missed at least one though)
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Posted 4/2/12
The backgrounds are pretty much why I bought it. I'm sure they'll get a lot of use.
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Posted 4/2/12 , edited 4/2/12

KrimsonGray wrote:

The backgrounds are pretty much why I bought it. I'm sure they'll get a lot of use.


I was more in it for the items. I dont like the BG's very much. The extra angles and the fact that they already come with transparency on windows and such is nice, but since they are all very obviously screenshots of a 3D model, they dont really seem to mesh very well the illustration style of existing BG assets.
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Posted 4/2/12 , edited 4/2/12
The ones I just used didn't look like a 3D screenshot to me.



EDIT; Well you might be right there. It would certainly be nice to have room models to use.
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Posted 4/2/12 , edited 4/2/12

KrimsonGray wrote:

The ones I just used didn't look like a 3D screenshot to me.



EDIT; Well you might be right there. It would certainly be nice to have room models to use.


There are some downloadable rooms floating around on some of the fansites, but I dunno if its the 3D limitations of ComiPo or the people who created them were just being lazy, but all things considered they dont look all that great, so I think that 2D is still probably the way to go. I just wish they would stick to one style of illustration instead of jumping around between 2D, 3D and photographs, since when your being conscious of continuity your pretty much restricted to only one of those.
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Posted 4/2/12 , edited 4/2/12
I noticed that KrimsonGray has purchased and used the premium items. Has the contest winners able to unlock it or was the problem not yet solved?


Spectre77 wrote:

Well, this is what we get for making assumptions lol.


Well, the very first DLC on the Japanese Comipo! is the casual clothes. I think that lead to many people believing that it's a safe assumption for the English ver. to do the same ;^^ (especially because the other free items were released at pretty much similar package to the Japanese ver.).


Spectre77 wrote:

On the FB front, before we go jumping the gun and creating a page for it I'm thinking it might be worth actually posting on there and letting them know that there are some people (I'm glad I'm not the only one) who are dissatisfied with the timeline layout, and hopefully if enough people support the idea we may get the layout changed back to how it was (assuming its possible to do so). That page contains a lot of very good information and links for the program, as well as providing us with news updates, so all things considered I think we would be better off petitioning for the layout to be reverted rather than abandoning the page completely.


Ah, right. I'll inform Comipo's staff in the FB page, or if anybody wanted to do it first, because I'm going to take some sleep first here ;^^.
Unfortunately I think the timeline layout is a forced change by the Facebook (CMIIW) . So I think a FB group is indeed needed. I wouldn't say we're totally abandoning that page either, as we still get our firsthand news from the staff directly from there.


Spectre77 wrote:

I'm definatly all for a community run competition since they always do bring out the best and most committed work . How do you guys want to go about that?


There are quite a bit of stuff we need to think of. The lesser issue is probably deciding who the judges would be (I'd probably go with Dragoshi as he's the veteran amongst Comipo! users, but we'll also need some others. Perhaps the contestants themselves could be the judges for others' entries?). While the biggest issue is preparing the prizes. I don't think many of us would voluntarily donate for such cause, and lack of prizes might not put much interest into the contest, especially outsiders and newcomers.
What do you guys think?



Spectre77 wrote:

There are some downloadable rooms floating around on some of the fansites, but I dunno if its the 3D limitations of ComiPo or the people who created them were just being lazy, but all things considered they dont look all that great, so I think that 2D is still probably the way to go. I just wish they would stick to one style of illustration instead of jumping around between 2D, 3D and photographs, since when your being conscious of continuity your pretty much restricted to only one of those.


It's probably the limitation of polygons. I used a 3D classroom model I got from e3paper, and even though it has some texture problems on the windows and some boards, it looked pretty good (at least after a little bit of copy and filtering).
http://hiroyraind.deviantart.com/art/Rivers-of-4-Seasons-chp-2-page-5-292799182
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Posted 4/2/12 , edited 4/4/12
Hey Everyone!

Thanks Hiroy for your positive words of encouragement towards the ComiPo Community!
And Thanks Spectre for the Premium Item post! Unfortunately, still no word about the unopenable prizes, so it was nice to get an update about what's in store.
It would be nice to unite the community and gather interest, and contests seem to do that fairly well!
And if we can present a proper contest in an organized fashion, I hope we'll get quite a fine response from the community!

I think that one way we could possibly look at it, is to divide contest into different types:
1. Show-Off and Be Popular Contests
2. Win Big Contests
3. Rank Yourself Among Others Contests

Now, to draw in new people, the best idea is #2. Offer a prize and people will come flocking. The problem is, what's the prize? Well, as I said before, I have a random extra license key, but I'm not sure if I can use use it for personal use yet (waiting to hear back from them). We might offer some Unique 3D model, or someone's custom image? Maybe, if we could even get in touch with Crunchyroll staff somehow, we could partner up and offer to hold a contest with a prize they offer?

As for #1, I think this is mostly for the long-time users. A contest where we basically just resubmit our favorite short series so that we all get a good look at all of them. The "judging", is more a critiquing on set elements (artstyle, comipo use, plot, dialogue), so we can all get some nice feedback, rather than just some random single chosen winner whom you have no idea the reason or criteria for their win. No prize (per se), just an opportunity for everyone to see and talk about your work.

#3 is basically just something for those that are pretty serious in their skills, and want a challenge. Set timeline and set goal with set restrictions. (1 Week for a Single Cover Page for a One-Shot (judged for art) , or a 2-week Comedy 4-Koma (judged for humor) ). Then we can have a poll ranking each of the entries.

Things to consider are:
1. Make a clear and proper set of judging criteria. We hope to give feedback as well as choose winners.
2. Maybe keep a set genre or theme, as well as a set style (I thought it was a bit confusing before with comedy mixed with suspense genres, and 4-koma with story-style manga)
3. Clear Contest Rules and Deadlines.
4. Set Limitations on Number of Entries per Contestant.
5. Provide a SINGLE location for news and updates on the Contest.
6. Provide Timely updates on the progress of the contest.
7. Review and respond to feedback from the Community.

Maybe we can try running a small trial contest first, with no prize, just to see if we can get one going, and who the core comipo users are as well. It would be a nice start.
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Posted 4/2/12
Hooray! I got emailed a license that can activate the Premium Items!
.....
Twice!
That brings my total of license keys up to 4! (I don't know if they can actually access the retail version though)

But here's a sneak peak of some of the items as I'd promised! (it's just a totally random jumble though)



I'm still looking through it all though, but it looks fun!

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Posted 4/2/12
@TatsukiTakatsuki:
Whoa, I'm not gonna touch that, but I'm actually curious on how long it'll take until the Comipo! staff take action.


wanderingwandering wrote:

I think that one way we could possibly look at it, is to divide contest into different types:
1. Show-Off and Be Popular Contests
2. Win Big Contests
3. Rank Yourself Among Others Contests

Now, to draw in new people, the best idea is #2. Offer a prize and people will come flocking. The problem is, what's the prize? Well, as I said before, I have a random extra license key, but I'm not sure if I can use use it for personal use yet (waiting to hear back from them). We might offer some Unique 3D model, or someone's custom image? Maybe, if we could even get in touch with Crunchyroll staff somehow, we could partner up and offer to hold a contest with a prize they offer?


I don't think people would like having a 3D item as an exclusive only for the winners, unless said items were sold with a price like in e3paper.


wanderingwandering wrote:

Things to consider are:
1. Make a clear and proper set of judging criteria. We hope to give feedback as well as choose winners.
2. Maybe keep a set genre or theme, as well as a set style (I thought it was a bit confusing before with comedy mixed with suspense genres, and 4-koma with story-style manga)
3. Clear Contest Rules and Deadlines.


This. Definitely what we needed for contests.
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Posted 4/2/12

TatsukiTakatsuki wrote:


hiroy_raind wrote:

@TatsukiTakatsuki:
Whoa, I'm not gonna touch that, but I'm actually curious on how long it'll take until the Comipo! staff take action.


It's not like they could trace the fact that you downloaded it. Don't be a wimp.


Well, there was some plan on using an extra premium item from one of the member as the prize for our little contest. If I can get it that way, then I prefer it that way. If I can quote a recent local movie, "it lacked the thrills" hahaha.

Seriously though, I'm not gonna prevent anybody from downloading it. And if I were to speak about consumer rights, I'd say more power to you, Tatsuki! Its just that, if I were to be expecting more from the company, including the waited clothes DLC, I don't think putting myself in a bad relationship with the company would do much good to myself nor the whole community. Then again, I have criticized about the lack of quality in the company's customer service, so who am I to talk .
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It seems to me that in the event we cant use the spare program/ DLC codes then the prize on offer is inevitably going to have to come out of someones pocket, becasue I agree that it would be difficult to draw people in unless we offered a prize with some sort of material value. That's not to say that its true for everyone of course, I would gladly compete with no prize on offer for the fun of it, but Its more or less guaranteed that having a prize on offer will give us far better results.

The prize I usually see offered for competitions like this when I see them on other sites is something along the lines of credit for an online retailer. Of course, this is something that we would have to purchase and is not really sustainable as a prize since I imagine that none of us really want to be forking out for such things constantly, but im perfectly happy to chip in 10 bucks once or twice (so long as others are also willing, not a lot of point in a prize when the pot is that small).

Other than that im pretty much out of ideas on what sort of thing we could offer, unless we can either get sponsored prizes or other elements of the community are willing to offer some form of prize of their own. But I also think we would be better off with a dry run as far as this whole community competition thing goes, make sure that we can successfully setup, run, close and judge one before we start worrying about any financial contributions to the thing.
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Posted 4/4/12
Well, it turn out that the Facebook page can be changed to show all post by others (instead of shoving them together into a box) by clicking on the pull-down menu.


Not exactly the best design, but it's better.

The staff didn't answer me about making a Facebook group, but instead shown me to... the Crunchyroll Comipo! community.
Uh, okay...? (;=_=)
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