First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next  Last
Do you think it is fine for people to simply watch unlicensed streaming anime?
36018 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / Netherlands
Offline
Posted 10/12/11
I think watching illegal streams or downloading is fine..

I see it like this.

1. Less Commercials

2. It's faster then ordering stuff. Don't have to wait a few days before it arrives.

3. It takes up "NO SPACE" with dvd boxes I rather keep everything digital quicker and less space consuming

4. MOST IMPORTANT : Art is about wanting people to see you creations I don't mind if you make people pay to get back the money you spend on it (break even), but do you really need to make millions of dollars of profit for something you "intend" to be art?

Don't get me wrong I happily pay for my crunchyroll account...
I also pay for other licensed content to support them while I could easily download everything but.

I see something very unethical when I look at most companies selling products.
The Wise Wizard
99891 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
56 / M / U.S.A. (mid-south)
Offline
Posted 10/12/11

Timmehxx wrote:
4. MOST IMPORTANT : Art is about wanting people to see you creations I don't mind if you make people pay to get back the money you spend on it (break even), but do you really need to make millions of dollars of profit for something you "intend" to be art?

So you believe all artists should be starving artists?

Seriously, though, with very rare exceptions, anime (and even manga) aren't created as art, they are created specifically as entertainment to be sold as a commercial product.
36018 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
26 / M / Netherlands
Offline
Posted 10/12/11

TheAncientOne wrote:
So you believe all artists should be starving artists?

No that's not what I mean at all...

Guess it did come a cross like that a bit..

I mean to say Do they need to make MILLIONS of dollars of profit?

Would it be that bad if not everyone agrees on the same value of a product.

They are still making Loads and Loads of money from the people that do support them.

And I am sure people who download are at least supporting other kind of companies they do value...
53121 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M
Offline
Posted 10/13/11
for me its supply and demand, in my country US streaming sites don't work because licensing etc, now i can use a proxy, but that is not a good solution since it may be slow, not really working or worse yet, the proxy server see all your information that gets sent, if only modify headers would work on more stuff then Comedy Central.

Now when they tried a JUMP magazine in my country i bought every issue, tried some import of anime, expensive and like my friend noticed he imported and got a burned dvd someone made that didn't even work properly.

I download anime and manga because i don't have anywhere else to get it, i love crunchyroll aswell, but same problem alot of the animes are US only and i sit here paying just as much as rest but can't even see half of what is here, not to blame crunchyroll it's just alot of red tape when it comes to licensing.

so i have a demand, only supply is here, nya and baka etc.
9312 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
30 / M / Over there
Offline
Posted 10/13/11

Timmehxx wrote:

And I am sure people who download are at least supporting other kind of companies they do value...


I support gaming companies xD I`ve NEVER pirated a game.
I don`t have alot of cash, so I`m currently prioritising games, they`keep me entertained for many more hours then one anime :P
And as you say, they already make alot of cash, they won`t start strugling just becaus I don`t pay
20064 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M
Offline
Posted 10/14/11
Honestly it depends. If I can buy it legally or import it then I will plus it gets me goodies you normally can't get. I vote with my wallet. Sometimes you just can't find it through normal channels or you have region codes to get around >_<
4752 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
29 / M / A rock in the mid...
Offline
Posted 10/15/11
Personally I think its worse to watch unlicensed anime streamed instead of downloading it. Not only are you still illegally watching something, you aren't even watching it with good quality, and many people streaming stuff on youtube make money off of ads they may put on the video regardless of if it's against the ToS.

To me, if you're going to watch it illegally anyway, at least give the creators the courtesy of watching it in high quality so as not to misrepresent the work to yourself or others.
76456 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
from the South Bay
Offline
Posted 10/15/11 , edited 10/16/11
Some of you guys have to understand not all titles that are streamed in CR for the US is streamed in other countries, so you got to do what you got to do , ether you watch it on the air waves , cable,or online ...hey its better than buying pirated stuff.

And also some anime fans out there can not afford the monthly fees.

Is it fine ? thats very subjective.Depends on your code of ethics,

As the saying goes , if its free, its for me.....the arguement is why pay when you can watch it for free....its there in the internet legal or not ,there is no law against watching it not unless you live in a communist country........ but its up to you if you watch it or not.

I don't because I don't need to .
20535 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
27 / F / United States
Offline
Posted 10/15/11
Well, no, it's not, because it's illegal. But since anime isn't exactly a huge market where every title is made available in every country, sometimes people do have to resort to watching it illegally - in those cases, you can hardly fault the people for just wanting to watch something they otherwise can't, can you? But if the anime has been licensed...be nice and pay or suffer through some commercials. (After all, if it's an anime you love, throwing more money at the producers makes it more likely that you'll get another season or OVA Just sayin'.)
3245 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
23 / M / New Jersey, U.S.A.
Offline
Posted 10/16/11
I do BUT only when I cant find a site with the licensing rights, and check a lot of sites before i do though.
29118 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
83 / F / Bite the pillow.
Offline
Posted 10/16/11 , edited 10/16/11

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate." - Paul Newman, Cool Hand Luke


There are two issues here.

First, just because a show isn't available in your country or your don't have the money to buy it or it isn't on your TV/Cable stations or it isn't on a licensed site such as Hulu or Crunchyroll, doesn't mean you're entitled to it. The problem here is that there is an entire generation of people, thanks to the Internet, who think they're entitled to anime or music or movies ... regardless.

An entitlement generation. Rationalization of theft. "If it the show was ONLY available in my country or on TV, I wouldn't have to seek it out." And? And what?

The other problem is that all theft is local. "Out off sight, out of mind." What that means is that watching an anime show on an illegal site -- one that isn't licensed to stream said show -- is a faceless crime. It's not like you see the damage you're doing. You don't understand that by steaming unlicensed anime and not paying a viewing fee that some poor manga artists or animator is being put out of a job. It's not like you see your actions ripple through the Japanese economy from the production studios down to the local retailers.

No...no you don't.

It's only a crime to us if it's local ... if it happens to us. If I break into your house and steal everything that you own, I'm a thief. But what if I buy what the thief stole from you? What if I buy your stolen computer, but I didn't actually steal it? How would you view me? I'm not the thief who broke into your house, so what am I?

You're not the person who uploaded the anime to the site, so what are you?

When it happens to us, it's theft. When it happens to other people or faceless corporations, it's ... what?

Second, not all laws are moral laws. If you think that copyright laws are immoral, then all if this is moot and you should just continue viewing illegal anime. However, just because you feel a law is immoral, if the majority or enough people with power think otherwise, then you'll likely end up in court at some point in your life to try and prove why you think what you believe is correct.

Just remember: what goes around, comes around. This is the law of life. You steal, you'll attract people who will steal from you. You lie, you'll attract people who will lie to you.


"He who gossips with you, will gossip of you." ~Irish Proverb
75652 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
55 / M / Northeast Ohio, USA
Offline
Posted 10/16/11

Cecilthedarkknight234 wrote: Fair use only comes into play if you own the said material. Now lets say for a visual novel player like myself, i order the games from japan then if there is translation patch in English then I use that play the game as seen in the cap below.
Strictly speaking, the patch is a "derivative work" (all translations are derivative works), and so copying requires permission of both the original work rights holder and the derivative works rights holder.

Even if its not a fair use in the legal sense, as long as you download it and don't torrent it, and as long as you don't distribute a copy, the legal burden is on the people offering the patch for download. Copy right is a right to make a copy ~ if someone else made the copy, that's on them. That's why a company (with deeper pockets to pay fines in a lawsuit) has to be very careful if they do torrent downloads, because torrents are normally both downloads and uploads at the same time, and the upload side is copying and distribution.

And if its a game that is not ever going to be licensed for an English Language release, the game companies likely don't mind at all ~ they'd rather have the official English Language release, which is a minimum guarantee payment up front rather than a trickle of overseas sales, but if there isn't going to be one, one can reasonably say no harm, no foul.

And pragmatically, as long as the user goes through the process of applying the patch themselves, the game companies probably don't mind much either way ~ the extra hurdle of finding and applying the patch on top of the extra cost of buying the Japanese release and shipping it to the US means that there is not going to be a big market spoiler effect.
75652 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
55 / M / Northeast Ohio, USA
Offline
Posted 10/16/11

MagicalGirlMyaako wrote: Please remember that the original question of this thread had nothing to do with downloading.....Simply watching unlicensed anime streams. No downloads, distribution, or profits involved.


"No profits" is not the right yardstick. Suppose that stream A is done "as a labor of love" by a bootleg streaming group, who leech the stream off of VEOH, leeched the leach series description off of ANN, and leeched. the video off a torrent distributor who in turn leeched the RAW off a Japanese torrent and the subtitle off of a fansub group. They have some banner ads, "but we don't make a profit!, Its just to Help With Costs!".

They are still generating revenue from costs that other people pay ~ the anime creators, the volunteer work of the fansub group ...
... (or if its a region restriction rather than no license at all, the paid subtitle work by the licensed streaming site), ...
... the bandwidth costs of the site that does the actual streaming of the actual series.

Instead of no profit, I would say the yardstick is no financial reward at all. If you see an ad, don't use that site for bootlegs.

In terms of risk of doing economic harm to the creators, I'd guess that there are a number of distinct levels (note that this list does not discriminate based on legal vs illegal):

(1) No risk is never watching unlicensed content at all. Whatever the terms are between the licensee and the licensor, and the licensor and the original creators ~ its the best outcome that the original creators are going to get. You also end up watching licensed content that you might not if you spent time on unlicensed content, and you do not "spoil" the market for a later license by rewarding the bootleg distributor that you would otherwise use with "hits", "popularity" or any other reward, whether social or financial.

(2) Second lowest risk to creator income is only watching bootlegs of completed series old enough that a license is highly unlikely. TAO's five years seems a reasonable threshold here: a series completing before 2007 is just not likely to be licensed. And if it is, then the license was taken up in full recognition that many of those interested will have watched a bootleg.

(3) Third lowest risk is only watching bootlegs of completed, unlicensed series "unlikely to be licensed". There is much more risk of spoiling the market for a license that is being negotiated ~ while lots of series have licenses announced while they are broadcasting, a substantial number get their license announced a year or two down the track.

(4) Fourth lowest risk is only watching bootlegs of simulcasts that are region blocked in your country, and which you can safely conclude are unlikely to ever be licensed for your country. Of course, there is a problem here of telling yourself a story to give yourself permission when the story does not actually hold up.

Any further, and you have to step over the line from "normally no financial harm" to the question of how much financial harm you want to rationalize doing. Given that inbetween animators are making maybe $1000/month living with their parents in Tokyo, one of the highest cost of living cities on the planet, in hopes of getting ahead in the industry, I just can't see my way clear to making even a tiny dent in the income stream to anime creators.

If you are going to access bootlegs, avoid bootleg leech streaming sites. Which fansub group did an unlicensed series is widely available information, and most fansub groups that focus on unlicensed series will have some non-revenue means of distributing their completed series. There are bootleg torrent sites that focus on unlicensed completed series. If you can find where the leech streaming bootleg is located on the real streaming site, at least your visit will generate some ad revenue to the people who have to spend money coping with the regular stream of C&D notices.

Also, bootleg leech streaming sites will have their chatboards and forums full of people making excuses for dumping dirt in the punch bowl of the original creators, and they congratulate themselves based on how many hits their site gets.
66780 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
31 / M / Lagrange, KY
Offline
Posted 10/16/11


hmm makes a big more sense however visual novels are something that hardly ever get talked about here if at all, some like to read/play them however the market in america for a said project is niche, VERY NICHE to the point that imporitng the games and using a patch is better than waiting years if at all for one to come out. The people that where doing school days original vn "Sekia Project" got blessing from the creators in Japan and now are working with JAST USA to bring over the HQ version next year legally for only 40 dollars rather than 150 dollars to import, however it will not effect the market in japan because it's English only "Japanese va" so it stops it there. Also getting off topic "sorry the people that are doing umineko also have blessing from r7 to do the project" The link for that is provided below.
http://witch-hunt.com/letter.html
75652 cr points
Send Message: Send PM GB Post
55 / M / Northeast Ohio, USA
Offline
Posted 10/16/11

Cecilthedarkknight234 wrote: ... The people that where doing school days original vn "Sekia Project" got blessing from the creators in Japan and now are working with JAST USA to bring over the HQ version next year legally for only 40 dollars rather than 150 dollars to import, ...
Yes, a derivative work that has the approval of the current rights holder for the original work is perfectly fine.

First, someone that makes their own patch when they own the game is fine anyway: copyright affects copying and distribution of derivative works, not the creation of derivative works.

And if the holder of rights in the original say its OK, then its OK. Distribution of derivative work is not flat out illegal, it just requires approval from whomever holds the original rights.

The so-called "gray area" is when there is nothing to say the derivative work is approved, but in reality the original rights holder doesn't care, or is OK with it but because of company policy can't come out and say it.

The slippery part of that is how you can be sure: lots of people try to pretend they are in the gray area when they are really doing something the original creator disapproves of ...
... but even if its often abused, claimed for things that are straight out bootlegging, there still is, in reality, that gray area that is illegal but tolerated.

But if they approve it, the gray goes away.
First  Prev  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.