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Do you think it is fine for people to simply watch unlicensed streaming anime?
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from the South Bay
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Posted 10/16/11
mm this thread is getting interesting
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Posted 10/16/11
I've got mixed feelings about it.

If they can get it legally in the format they want then I see no reason why they should use the illegal sites. Even if they are days/week quicker. People are more than willing to spend cash on on demand video.


On the other hand you many shows that don't end up on legal streaming sites or even on demand video sites. People want content on their terms and will pay for it. If its not on their terms for a cost but it is for free illegally... doesn't take a brain surgeon to see which way they'd go. If the studio is unwilling supply it on their terms( quick subs in multiple languages, in digital format) to stick with the traditional dvd boxed set format.. Then I have little sympathy for them when someone steals their stuff.

Take a popular series like bleach. It takes more effort now to watch it illegally then it does to watch it legally. No reason why this can't be successful with every broadcast series. Or even have the studio get residual income from old series that are in their library.
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55 / M / NE Ohio | Beijing
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Posted 10/17/11 , edited 10/17/11

hrrly wrote: Take a popular series like bleach. It takes more effort now to watch it illegally then it does to watch it legally. No reason why this can't be successful with every broadcast series. Or even have the studio get residual income from old series that are in their library.

In many ways its easier to do with a popular series like Bleach. Its popularity means that the costs of mastering the video and paying for a subtitle is spread over many views. And it runs so long that the contracting costs are spread over hundreds of episodes, so it paid to have all parties sit down and hammer out a complicated deal.

In these discussions, its possible to discuss the ethics of it endlessly, because different people have different things they take into account. Some people its just what makes them feel good. Some people like to think they are not hurting the original creators. Some people have a strong "follow the law right or wrong" position. Some people follow a moral code they were raised with, or that is part of the religion they follow.

I focus on the business market impact, because every fan of anime has a selfish interest in the business working out. Anime is not high art, it is commercial entertainment produced for profit, and so no profit, no production. A healthy anime business means more productions, and better chances something will be made that you will like.

On the legal side, the copyright infringement is making the copy. But in the market side, the impact is where you send your dollars or, for ad-supported media, your attention.

One version of the "no harm, no foul" rule is that when you are caught up with all the legal anime you are interested in, there's no harm in watching a completed series that is unlicensed in your country, and unlikely to ever be licensed in your country.


iashakezula wrote: Some of you guys have to understand not all titles that are streamed in CR for the US is streamed in other countries, so you got to do what you got to do , ether you watch it on the air waves , cable,or online ...hey its better than buying pirated stuff.

And also some anime fans out there can not afford the monthly fees.

Is it fine ? thats very subjective.Depends on your code of ethics, ...


But don't do it on an ad-supported leech streaming site, since watching at those sites is supporting those sites, and they compete head to head with legit streaming businesses that pay royalties to the original anime producers. For those going the route of bootlegs for series without a licensed stream in their country, there are non-ad-supported ways to do that.

If it is licensed somewhere in the world, then being part of the torrent when the series is first released is contributing to the torrent capacity, and there are other people who have legal access but are getting the bootleg anyway.

That's where the "completed series" comes in, above: most of the market value of the stream is in season, so waiting until the season is completed means you never even have an indirect impact on the bulk of the streaming royalties, which have already been paid out.
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28 / M / in your head
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Posted 10/17/11 , edited 10/17/11
YES, if there's absolutely NO alternative
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from the South Bay
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Posted 10/17/11 , edited 10/17/11


But don't do it on an ad-supported leech streaming site, since watching at those sites is supporting those sites, and they compete head to head with legit streaming businesses that pay royalties to the original anime producers. For those going the route of bootlegs for series without a licensed stream in their country, there are non-ad-supported ways to do that.



I know, I have seen a lot of those sites .I just goggled it up and alot pop up. How about this site?

http://www.gorgeousanime.com/ for example

As for me I don't need to since the anime I like to watch are in CR, Niconico, Hulu or Crackle.



The Wise Wizard
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56 / M / U.S.A. (mid-south)
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Posted 10/17/11 , edited 10/17/11

iashakezula wrote:
I know, I have seen a lot of those sites .I just goggled it up and alot pop up. How about this site?

(link to site removed)

I did not need to go any further than their own FAQ to confirm it as a fansub site:


Q: I pressed play waited over 30 seconds but video does not show up!
A: Since we do not host the videos, some videos can be deleted at the host side because of copyright infringement or unpopularity.

Q: How can I add a video mirror?
A: Simply by going to the video that you want to add a mirror. Click on the upload video button and fill in the details. The video you are submitting must be an embed code and not just a url. You also need to be a registered member in order to add mirrors.


Aside from the fact that a legal site would not have any worries about about videos being deleted due to copyright infringement, legal sites either host their own videos or embed those from another legal site, don't require mirrors for videos (needed by fansub sites because videos are sometimes deleted), and don't allow users to to upload or link to uploads of episodes.

As it is a fansub site, you should edit your message to remove that link, in order to comply with forum rules.

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29 / M / ninja mode
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Posted 10/17/11
I only buy animes that have a good english dub. animes that I've bought are GTO,Trigun,and cowboy bebop. also I don't usually an anime unless it's complete. I would buy trigun again if they decided to do a reboot with the same voice cast. also legato bluesummers made that anime great! the things he made do vash in episode 24 were crazy.
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55 / M / NE Ohio | Beijing
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Posted 10/17/11

iashakezula wrote: I know, I have seen a lot of those sites .I just goggled it up and alot pop up. How about this site?
When the disclaimer is full is lies, that's kind of a giveaway:

The owner of this site emphasizes again:
- The owner of this website has no knowledge that material posted is infringing
- The owner does not benefit directly from these material
- The owner removes infringing material immediately upon learning of violations
"The owner does not benefit from these material" says the disclaimer, when the front page has not one but two click through ads for multi-player online games and the bottom of the site is a long row of icons to get you to vote the site up on leech streaming anime rating sites so they can increase their visibility.

And "the owner of this website" knows perfectly well that every single series listed in their "latest series" are infringing, and most are competing directly against legal sites that pay for their bandwidth and pay royalties to the original creators in Japan.
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33 / M
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Posted 10/17/11
I will say this I watch anime on streaming sites subbed by fansubbers so I guess yes Im watching illegal anime but thats what I do since a lot of those series I like arent for sell or have to watch some funimation subs or other trash site.
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Posted 10/18/11 , edited 10/18/11
I give legal watches more priority over unlicensed, I have noticed, as time progresses the less and less unlicensed things I watch. back in the day, when I first started watching it was like 100% illegal last season, It was 100% legal. meaning that more and more new things are getting picked up and fast.

But what about all those old anime that never had a legit broadcast. Lets take a Ironic example, I want to watch chi's sweet home. So I see CR has it... oh wait that is 2nd season... oh I guess I will wait until they put 1st season up like they did with hayate. waiting.................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Ok wtf man....

OR

I legitimately watched season 1 of X anime series so I will wait for legit season two waiting..............................................................................................

OR

I hear news that so and so picked up X anime.
Example:
I heard that funimation has Toaru Majutsu no Index waiting................................................. (I did hear some news that they are making progress tho)

So how long am I suppose to wait? I waited for the anime Monster for like a year or two and then like 1 or 2 months after I freaking watch it they do a free legit release. Its so good that they pick up stuff right off that bat now , however some of the older stuff is still getting picked up here and there. Its a battle between I want to watch this and I want to support it but not wait forever because then both are not met.
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34 / M / Oregon
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Posted 10/18/11
If a series has a legal option I will always watch it on a legal site. The quality and stream on legal sites are almost always better than a fansub stream. I do watch some fansubs though when a show doesn't get licensed. I'm not perfect, but I do make an effort to check if a series has a legal option before going with the fansub.
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55 / M / NE Ohio | Beijing
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Posted 10/18/11 , edited 10/18/11

mow123 wrote: ...But what about all those old anime that never had a legit broadcast. ...
Yeah, that's where the "legal eagles" and the "no harm, no foul" crowds will often go separate ways.

For watching bootlegs of a completed series that is not licensed in your home country and is unlikely to be licensed, I don't think that there is going to be any significant negative impact on the creators, even if lots of people use that rule ...
... because the majority of the market value for the streaming is in-season.


mow123 wrote: ... I hear news that so and so picked up X anime.
Example:
I heard that funimation has Toaru Majutsu no Index waiting................................................. (I did hear some news that they are making progress tho)

So how long am I suppose to wait?
A Certain Magical Index and a Certain Scientific Railgun are excellent (and painful) examples.

The "no harm, no foul" argument doesn't work if a company has licensed it and the materials get caught in a company merger hell like Geneon and whoever they are merging with ~ Universal? Funimation is going to need the business even more, given the amount of time they've had to wait to get materials so they can get to work on the release.

Anybody who thinks, "the anime industry is rolling in money, they don't need mine" is fooling themselves ~ in the last shakeout, companies were dying like flies, both in Japan and localizers here in the US. The finances of making anime are shaky still. A healthy growth in the legit streaming market is the Japanese anime studios best hope of having the resources to survive the next downturn.
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20 / M / Stoke, England
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Posted 10/18/11
I don't give a shit. Anime companies make money without Crunchyroll, so I'll continue watching my free, unlimited selection of thousands of anime.
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26 / M / New York City
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Posted 10/18/11
Im with you on that one ,i enjoy downloading and watching all the anime thats on the net.
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F / In front of a com...
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Posted 10/18/11
i haven't actually watched any anime in a while, too busy nowadays.
i used to watch a lot of fansub anime though, then i found crunchyroll.
so now i have a lil' system. i compile a list of anime i want to watch, then make notes on which ones are available on legal streaming sites.
i try and watch all the legal shows before resorting to watching the unlicensed ones on other anime sites.
i find that this system works quite well in limiting my illegal anime because there are always new shows coming up on legal sites, continuously adding to the list.
So, basically, i almost never go on fansub sites anymore.
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