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Programmers/Developers/Hackers
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35 / M / California, USA
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Posted 10/24/11

uhohimdead wrote:
i not lying when i say i don't, my brother does but i am morally against such things.
the only current gen systems i have are a psp and wii both clean and unmodified, nor do i use emulators of any kind... if you're going to ask me why then the answer would be "because i don't think we should do it"


No, it should be done. It's your own hardware, not insert company name here's hardware. Once you bought it, they shouldn't tell you what you can and cannot do with your own property.

When you buy a piece of wood, would you accept the lumber mill telling you how you could and could not use that piece of wood? What about a hammer? Would you accept if you bought a hammer the manufacturer forbidding you from using it on any nails except their brand? You'd probably say that's a silly question because that doesn't actually happen. However, you're willing to accept the same silly restrictions on something else you bought and own - your own property.

Committing mass piracy using modified hardware is a different thing altogether. Not all "jailbreak/rooting/modding" is for the intent of copyright infringement.

Heck, I'd probably have purchased a new cell phone if it wasn't for all the community around modifications for my current one. The last update from Samsung completely broke Bluetooth functionality to where the phone wouldn't audibly ring unless I did some complex stuff whenever I disconnected from a Bluetooth headset. The modified software works great and doesn't have that problem. Would you rather I not fix my phone and just buy a new one because there is some moral problem with using it for what I want because it's a phone and not a hammer?




uhohimdead wrote:
i don't even understand how people figure out how to do half of these things in the first place.


The same way that other people have figured out how to do things. They watch the behavior with various tools and figure out how something works. Then, using knowledge from programming, figure out how to make it work like it isn't supposed to.
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Posted 10/24/11

youngmug wrote:


uhohimdead wrote:
i not lying when i say i don't, my brother does but i am morally against such things.
the only current gen systems i have are a psp and wii both clean and unmodified, nor do i use emulators of any kind... if you're going to ask me why then the answer would be "because i don't think we should do it"


No, it should be done. It's your own hardware, not insert company name here's hardware. Once you bought it, they shouldn't tell you what you can and cannot do with your own property.

When you buy a piece of wood, would you accept the lumber mill telling you how you could and could not use that piece of wood? What about a hammer? Would you accept if you bought a hammer the manufacturer forbidding you from using it on any nails except their brand? You'd probably say that's a silly question because that doesn't actually happen. However, you're willing to accept the same silly restrictions on something else you bought and own - your own property.

Committing mass piracy using modified hardware is a different thing altogether. Not all "jailbreak/rooting/modding" is for the intent of copyright infringement.

Heck, I'd probably have purchased a new cell phone if it wasn't for all the community around modifications for my current one. The last update from Samsung completely broke Bluetooth functionality to where the phone wouldn't audibly ring unless I did some complex stuff whenever I disconnected from a Bluetooth headset. The modified software works great and doesn't have that problem. Would you rather I not fix my phone and just buy a new one because there is some moral problem with using it for what I want because it's a phone and not a hammer?




uhohimdead wrote:
i don't even understand how people figure out how to do half of these things in the first place.


The same way that other people have figured out how to do things. They watch the behavior with various tools and figure out how something works. Then, using knowledge from programming, figure out how to make it work like it isn't supposed to.


and what happens when crap happens and your device is now a brick? complain to the company? i adhere to the warning and caution signs companies put on their products because i don't want to risk getting back a $250 paper weight. you're right it is mine to do with as i please, and it pleases me to stick with proper procedure and the advice of the company.

you want to do these things to your equipment that's fine i dont care, just leave me out of this none sense
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35 / M / California, USA
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Posted 10/24/11 , edited 10/24/11

uhohimdead wrote:
and what happens when crap happens and your device is now a brick? complain to the company?


Nope. I did an action that violated the warranty of the device. Why should I complain? Anyone who would do such a change despite very big notices about voiding warranties deserves for that comapny to do nothing more than respond "you violated the warranty, we don't need to support it".

I'll note that for my phone, I reported the issue on the provided firmware to Samsung and they acknowledged my report. I then waited four months with a broken Bluetooth function before I decided to take things into my own hands.



uhohimdead wrote:
i adhere to the warning and caution signs companies put on their products because i don't want to risk getting back a $250 paper weight. you're right it is mine to do with as i please, and it pleases me to stick with proper procedure and the advice of the company.

you want to do these things to your equipment that's fine i dont care, just leave me out of this none sense


That's all fine and well, but there's nothing preventing you from doing so even if the device naturally supported the capability to modify it. Just as some people run their cars stock and others add all kinds of modifications, it should be the same with electronic devices.

The big problem is that companies are attempting to put up legal and technological barriers to restrict what one can do with their own property.

For example, I have a DVR at home. It's rented from Verizon. I don't mess with it (nor would I, it works fine right now) because it's not my property. Therefore, Verizon has the right to restrict modifications as it's not my property.

Also, these restrictions aren't about warranty issues, they're about control plain and simple.

This discussion is interesting, but I do think it's getting off-topic, so perhaps it would be best to argue in another topic?
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Posted 10/24/11

youngmug wrote:


This discussion is interesting, but I do think it's getting off-topic, so perhaps it would be best to argue in another topic?



no ill leave this at this ... i dont want to mess with the devices because i dont want to brick them thats all, my choice, don't care for any functionality modding may add
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27 / M / Los Angeles, Cali...
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Posted 10/24/11
I'm a programmer but I never did nor I never thought about modding or jailbraking my CONSOLES.
although I DID use an emulator once because I can't find this particular game before.
I had no choice (there's no legal way to find one)

Now Why not mod/jailbreak my console
Maybe because I'm a programmer, I know how they make stuffs.
And it's not just that simple to create a program, a game or something.
They take weeks, months or even years(actually not years) to just create one.
Yea sure we get them for free. but let's say you're the one who made them
You spent hours,days, weeks, months,years and some of them are all-nighter
just to reach that god damn deadline.
and after you're done with the program you spent so many hours will be
just be pirated by others?

And you know what's worst? some sites will earn money (from ads) just by distributing illegally your own software.

Yea sure some people might say... "I'm just using jailbreak or modding because I just want to play and backup my OWN-BOUGHT games/softwares"
well sure but not ALL PEOPLE. and what's worst MOST people do it the wrong way.

I create programs that are useful not something to hack or break something.
Although I haven't had an Idea for a long time now >_>
maffoo 
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35 / M / England
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Posted 10/24/11
I have an Android tablet that I've reflashed to run Honeycomb. I also managed to turn my old laptop into a Hackintosh, if that counts.

I also have a PS2 with modchip (for imports) and when I had an XBox it had a modchip for homebrew. My current consoles aren't modded though, and I think I'll leave them be.
maffoo 
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35 / M / England
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Posted 10/24/11


"Backups" aside, there are perfectly legitimate reasons to mod hardware. For example, some people bought PS3s on the back of their ability to run Linux, and wanted to keep it when Sony disabled the functionality. People may also want the freedom to run homebrew software on their consoles/phones, and don't like the manufacturer telling them what they can and can't run.

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31 / M / Lagrange, KY
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Posted 10/24/11
lets see.. I have a modded PsP, Idop, messed around with the pc patching/modding on games for visual novels, I have modded ps3 as well but eh that's to much trouble to mess with oh and 2 modded wii's "playing ps1 games on the Wii is funny as hell"
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20 / M / Stoke, England
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Posted 10/24/11

-Cockroach- wrote:

nobody gives a damn about this kind of threads
to the OP go fuck a sheep bitch!


I hope you don't make yourself too obvious. My troll account got banned within 20 posts. I suck, I know.
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33 / M / South Saskatchewan
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Posted 10/24/11
the legality and morals aside,

I own and operate several "modded" and cracked devices, both for private use and for commercial use. gotta love Linksys, they make it soooo easy.

Nesticle, now that brings back memories....so glad SNES9X came out to replace it ( and yes with some modification it could play Nesticle romz).
I use roms(z) because I don't have the room to keep my ColecoVision, Atari, nes, snes, n64, xbox, ps3, Sega systems(8 bit and 16bit) and the Wii setup and plugged in.
As to how people do this stuff..... well lets just say its the game makers who give us the tools and the rest is history.

I personally believe that if I am paying for the hardware then its mine to do with as I please and no reverse engineering clause can dispute that. That being said, I have been paid on occasion to create software for proprietary use and it is now their code. This I accept because the original source is still my "ART", I just cant disclose it for legal reasons.

For those who worry about bricking your box, well that's your choice and you have a right to not be pressured into attempting something your not comfortable with. Just get of your 'holyer than thou' high horse and realize that its people like us that even made it possible for you to have that technology. All new technology is just a hacked version of someone elses idea, sometimes made better, others just to take market share. Intel made the microprocessor from the work other labs did, apple seen that there was another way to do the same thing. AMD bought a Intel clone made by cyrix and developed an alternative to the Intel solution. D.O.S has had several iterations from PC-DOS(IBM) DR-DOS(symantec) MS-DOS(MS) all are identical save then names of key files, all use the command.com shell. windows, IBM-OS(known better as OS2) and apple OS all are so similar that there was a court battle as to who owned the rights to a windowing graphical interface.

(steps off the soap box)

it comes down to this: do you really care how it works or what it can do? or do you just want to use it as your told to.
if you just want to use it as told to then stick to your MS clean desktop with no third party equipment.
If you really want to know more then there are thousands of sites that can teach you such that you can become the next noble prize winner. Its all up to you and what you want to do with it.
Posted 10/24/11

karlojeda wrote:

I'm a programmer but I never did nor I never thought about modding or jailbraking my CONSOLES.
although I DID use an emulator once because I can't find this particular game before.
I had no choice (there's no legal way to find one)

Now Why not mod/jailbreak my console
Maybe because I'm a programmer, I know how they make stuffs.
And it's not just that simple to create a program, a game or something.
They take weeks, months or even years(actually not years) to just create one.
Yea sure we get them for free. but let's say you're the one who made them
You spent hours,days, weeks, months,years and some of them are all-nighter
just to reach that god damn deadline.
and after you're done with the program you spent so many hours will be
just be pirated by others?

And you know what's worst? some sites will earn money (from ads) just by distributing illegally your own software.

Yea sure some people might say... "I'm just using jailbreak or modding because I just want to play and backup my OWN-BOUGHT games/softwares"
well sure but not ALL PEOPLE. and what's worst MOST people do it the wrong way.

I create programs that are useful not something to hack or break something.
Although I haven't had an Idea for a long time now >_>


You sure now how to get off topic.

Jailbreak = Your device

Jailbreak = Piracy? WTF?

Jailbreaking/modifying and the like is completely acceptable, it's yours, you can do whatever you want with it,

Note: The minute this topic was created, you jump on the bandwagon and piracy like most users, this is understandable, but you have to understand, is that Apple no longer owns your iPhone 4S when you buy it, jailbreak? Fine, roms you already have? Sure.

Them saying NO YOU CANNOT JAILBREAK your device? Impossible, last time I checked, I payed 650$ for the product, not a license.
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20 / M / Stoke, England
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Posted 10/24/11

Aero-Mach wrote:


Note: The minute this topic was created, you jump on the bandwagon and piracy like most users


You overuse the word bandwagon. Are you a hipster?
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26 / M / Norway
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Posted 10/24/11
I'm pretty fluent with PHP & C#. Markup is pretty easy as well.
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35 / M / California, USA
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Posted 10/24/11 , edited 10/24/11
Correcting comments for educational purposes. Mostly because I know the history fairly well, having grown up with computers, starting at MS-DOS 3.21 on a Packard Bell 8086 with CGA support (I feel old...).


shiori-kun wrote:
All new technology is just a hacked version of someone elses idea, sometimes made better, others just to take market share. Intel made the microprocessor from the work other labs did, apple seen that there was another way to do the same thing. AMD bought a Intel clone made by cyrix and developed an alternative to the Intel solution.


I won't fully dispute the first part of what you said there, but not all new technology is a spin on an old concept. However, most modern technology in use today stands on the foundation of past technology.

OS X? It's built on the foundation of UNIX, created by AT&T Bell Labs in the 60s. UNIX was mostly made in C, which was a language created mostly by the late Dennis Ritchie (along with Ken Thompson) based on the older language named B. The GUI is based on work done by Xerox Palo Alto Research Center (PERC) for their Xerox Star workstation, then later by NeXT (a company Steve Jobs created after leaving Apple in the 80s).

Anyway, on the whole Intel processor thing...

Intel was quite a name back in the late 70s already. They made lots of different processors of different capabilities, and were quite well known for RAM.

When IBM was building their first "PC", they decided to build it entirely from "off-the-shelf" parts as it was a low-priority and low-budget project. This led to them shopping around for various components. They wound up deciding on using Intel for the processors. Intel had, at that time, made some popular processors for other hobbyist computers. Their 8080 processor had been used in the Altair 8800, for instance.

Anyway, as IBM was quite smart, they demanded a second source for processors so Intel couldn't price-gouge them. As a result, Intel licensed the 8088 and 8086 chip designs to a small company named Advanced Micro Devices. AMD also had processor designs of their own, but dropped them to work full-time as a second source for what was soon to be a very popular processor family. I believe Cyrix also acquired a license at this time (this was passed to Via when National Semiconductor bought Cyrix and Via subsequently bought National Semiconductor).

Intel, meanwhile, got tired of low margins and attempted to stop licenses as of the 80386. There was a long court battle over AMD releasing their 80386 and AMD eventually won.

If you're thinking of AMD buying anyone, it would be NexGen. That purchase led to the K6 and K7 processors. You might recognize the K7 under the name "Athlon".



shiori-kun wrote:
D.O.S has had several iterations from PC-DOS(IBM) DR-DOS(symantec) MS-DOS(MS) all are identical save then names of key files, all use the command.com shell.


IBM-DOS and MS-DOS are from the same source. When IBM was shopping for an OS on their new "PC", they originally wanted to license CP/M, which was really popular. The story is that IBM had some issues with the excessive legal copyright notices on all the documentation and the way the CEO of Digital Research (owner of CP/M) treated them. IBM then turned to Microsoft, known as a supplier of BASIC interpreters for an OS. Microsoft, not having anything, quickly bought the rights for an OS named Quick and Dirty Operating System (QDOS) from Seattle Computer. After some work, that code became Microsoft Disk Operating System (MS-DOS). The first release was IBM PC-DOS 1.0. The way the contract was written, Microsoft had permission to sell the OS to other vendors, and this edition became the popular MS-DOS.

DR-DOS was a clone of MS-DOS written from scratch by Digital Research (the DR in DR-DOS, and also the same company that owned CP/M). It never got all that popular, mostly from Microsoft screwing with things to make it look like it had issues. A well-known issue was the warning Microsoft printed on the startup of early versions of Windows about DR-DOS being incompatible (it wasn't). There was a lawsuit over that, but it was too late.

DR-DOS was eventually bought by Novell and re-branded Novell DOS or Novell DR-DOS. Later, it was sold to Caldera, which later renamed itself to "The SCO Group" and did that whole long Linux lawsuit thing with IBM. DR-DOS was spun off to a company named DRDOS, Inc. It was never owned by Symantec.



shiori-kun wrote:
windows, IBM-OS(known better as OS2) and apple OS all are so similar that there was a court battle as to who owned the rights to a windowing graphical interface.


There was a whole lawsuit between Apple and Microsoft over Windows and similarity to OS X. Apple partly prevailed on it. Quite the interesting suit, if you are interested in reading about it.

Interestingly, OS/2 was originally an IBM and Microsoft partnership. You can tell because of the Microsoft copyrights in it. It also used to (not sure if it still does) run Windows 3 applications. There were some problems in the partnership and Microsoft eventually created Windows NT, which eventually won the desktop market (Windows 2000 and Windows XP and newer all are based on Windows NT).


Boy, I feel old...
Posted 10/24/11

CarboKill wrote:


Aero-Mach wrote:


Note: The minute this topic was created, you jump on the bandwagon and piracy like most users


You overuse the word bandwagon. Are you a hipster?


Give me the definition of bandwagon and hipster.
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