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The Old Homosexuality/Bisexuality as Choice debate..
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Posted 7/6/12

tarakelly wrote:

This is so sad to think of all the people that have died from the slavery, the civil war, and the final fight to be recognized as people equal to all others. Did gay get turn down the right to vote did the homosexual population ever really struggle compared to what the blacks have been through. Even women's suffrage movement had more to complain about than Homosexual community has today. I do think gays should fight for themselves but on there own issues not on the backs of others.


While it's true LGB invididauls have not had to face oppression historically, that doesn't change the fact that the period of slavery nor the women's suffrage movement constitute the Civil Rights Movement which started roughly in the 1950s and ended somewhere in the 1980s. Slavery ended nearly a century before, and women got their suffrage during World War I, both times outside of what is formally considered the Civil Rights Movement. That doesn't change the Stonewall Riots, the Delano Grape Strike, the Native Americans' occupation of Alcatraz, the Zoot Suit Riots, the Feminist Movement, and the Montgomery Bus Boycott were all but a few events that constitued the Civil Rights Movement.

This is in part, due to a grave misunderstanding on your point. The Civil Rights Movement was not about race. Period. Yes, black people started the fight in order to repel Jim Crow Laws. That doesn't meant the Civil Rights movement was just about black people or people of color. Historians consider the gay rights movement, or at least it's inception to be formally considered as part of the Civil Rights Movement, and that isn't something you can deny.


Yes there are many people out there and with all sorts of predigest to the point the will hurt or even kill some else. This is sad, but it is not just homosexual, from religion , anti religion height weight and so forth. People prejudge others all the time for many reason. Life is not fair that just a fact of life. Many people are just born with natural talents from intellect to physical strength that just a fact of life. From height, looks, weight the general appearance of a person.


Are you implying that the worse homosexuality has to deal with is hate crime? What about the HIV crisis? When an unknown form of "cancer" (as it was called back then) had been discovered among gay men in the 1980s, the government ignored the epidemic because they thought it was a plague that affected only gay men. A large reason why the virus affects as many as it does is because the government disliked LGBT individauls. There is the fact that LGBT youth are disowned at a rate of 24%--at least, last I checked the statistic, which might have declined since then. The 76% non-disowned largely include people who remain in the closet. This sort of act can be detrimental to people's lives. Gay teens are 6 to 7 times more likely to commit suicide because of how society treats them. Now, and I want to make this perfectly clear, I am NOT saying this is tantamount to what people of color and women had to go through, but to say everyone has to deal with hate crime and LGBT people are just playing victim and seeking attention--that's the impression I'm getting from this post--is just utter horsecrap, since there are real issues going on.
Then

again I found many foo my homosexual friends are overly opinionated and have many negative things to talk about others. I find that in many groups of people from social to the type work they do. I have notice there are stereo types they all complain about. I get dog out to to my poor spelling grammar but most people do not no what i have had to deal with. I just have to accept that as a fact of life.


What does this have to do with anything? It really only sounds like you're trying to further insinuate all what LGBT people are doing are playing the victim and seeking attention, and I really don't like that implication. I really hope I'm just reading too far into your post.

And yes, I have had to be put through crap here others have had. We all have. But there reaches a point where something is so grave and affects so many people that those people--and their allies--will assert themselves against social injustice. And I feel the gay rights movement really is something like that. The fact they are one of a few people who face de jure discrimation (I am of course, alluding to, marriage inequality) itself speaks volumes about the issues. Is it tantamount to what black people had to go through? No. Is it tantamount to what women had to go through? Probably not. But it is it so negliglible that LGBT people should just not assert themselves and accept the issues facing them today? The answer to that too is no.
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Posted 7/6/12 , edited 7/6/12
That comment was meant for the person just for that statement. If you would like you could post a from on this.Most my friend tend to be minorities of all types. Heck I am in on too..Zoraprime would be more than happy to talk to you. --------------------------------------------------------------- What does this have to do with anything? It really only sounds like you're trying to further insinuate all what LGBT people are doing are playing the victim and seeking attention, and I really don't like that implication. I really hope I'm just reading too far into your post.
Posted 7/6/12

Syndicaidramon wrote:


Else-ee wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:


Else-ee wrote:


Syndicaidramon wrote:

Homesxuality is a choice. In the same way that heterosexuality is a choice.
Being sexually active is a choice, since you can also choose to NOT be sexually active. It's not something that's mandatory.


We cannot choose who we are attracted to. All we can choose is our behavior. That said, I do not believe being of gay orientation is a choice. The choice part comes when a person decides whether or not to be sexually active with that attraction.



Why does everyone assume that when I say "homosexuality", I mean "being gay"? I don't.
I thought "homosexual" was a term about people who were sexually active with others of the same gender, not people who are simply attracted to the same gender.

As you say.


It does seem that different peoples understanding of what various words mean in this discussion can really mess up understanding. For example, I now realize (& didn't before this discussion) that some people who say "homosexuality is a choice" mean "being sexually active as a homosexual is a choice." They're lumping two concepts together into one when they can & should be separate. My understanding of the term "homosexual" or "gay" means *attraction*, not necessarily activity. That's why I'm insistent that "Homosexuality is not a choice."


I don't get this. Why would we have two words that mean the exact same thing?
Doesn't "homoSEXUAL" imply that there's sexual conduct involved?


We have more than 1 word for "shoe" -- sneakers, sandals, boots, etc. So why not for "homosexual"? Usu. the diff. words for "the same thing" have slight gradations of difference. For example, most English speakers wouldn't confuse a sneaker for a sandal. And with some words, not everyone agrees what, precisely, the word means, as with "homosexuality." When we speak of someone's sexuality, it's usually referring to the part of their being that includes sexual urges and attractions and, often (but not necessarily only) behavior. One person might think 2 boys kissing is "hot" while another doesn't. While no sex act is happening, the kissing & whether one thinks it's "hot" *is* a part of the broad area known as "sexuality."

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